Scotty1980 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Don’t worry, I’m not really expecting magic answers, just advice. As a young man I have always wanted to get into all aspects of shooting, but as someone with no friends that share similar interests, I knew it would be difficult! The idea was to get my shotgun licence and gun then learn to shoot it at a clay range. This would get some shooting experience which would in turn give me the confidence and small amount of knowledge to approach farmers / land owners, even small shoots to gain the access / ability to get some game shooting done. So here is the FAC boggle! I naively expected to be able to apply for my FAC and do exactly the same thing with a FAC rifle, but my local gun shop tells me that this is not so! No experience or land to shoot on = no licence? So yes I can do a DSC1, combined with a couple of stalking days but I don’t think that will swing it! I could even join a gun club but the probation period may take 6-9 months. You may ask why the hurry? Well for one I may get hit by a bus next week and two, I have only had my shotgun licence for 6 months and it was an absolute ball ache to get my doctors to participate, in the application process. My local firearms licencing office told me on the phone the other day that if I get my FAC application in smartish then they probably wouldn’t even bother with contacting the doctors again. So can anyone give me any advice on the fastest route to a licence? Thank you for taking to time to read all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 If you have permission to shoot on farms with a shotgun then ask the same farmers if they'd give you permission to use a rifle. You'd need it in writing, though, which is not going to be easy. Get an air rifle and do some pest control with that then upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 You will need land to shoot on cleared for the calibre/s you want. experience not so much again depending on calibre as having and using a shotgun will count towards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 AS mentioned Foot in the door regarding obtaining an FAC in my opinion would be for FAC Air rifle. Your more likely to obtain permission one for smaller land allocations and most landowners that I know view would be that if Im allowing you to use your SGC, then an air rifle is def not a problem. A newish shooter asking to use a centre-fire is a different kettle of fish. Now, once you have that FAC, then at your leisure/experience, apply for something else. Thats my view anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 You either need to join a club or have land to shoot on, that's it. You are likely to get granted a .22lr rifle for pest control on a first application if you have land to shoot it on. If you want a centrefire then it will be club only unless you have been mentored before a first application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 You either need to join a club or have land to shoot on, that's it. You are likely to get granted a .22lr rifle for pest control on a first application if you have land to shoot it on. If you want a centrefire then it will be club only unless you have been mentored before a first application. You might want to have a read up on the guidelines as that's not the case.... To the op, get a farmer to sign a piece of paper stating you can shoot on such land with the address (I know, not as easy as it sounds) and get in for either an fac air or a 17hmr. Personally I'd leave the 22lr. Tin hat on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I would if I were u .buy myself a nice pcp air rifle and practice with it .at a range .then approach a land owner and see if you can do some pest control for them .ask about rabbits in spring and summer ..squirrels in autumn. Rats in winter . Get very into airgunning (very addictive in its own right ) Then when you feel there is a requirement for an fac then apply . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Mentoring? That's not a legal requirement, and with good reason proved and the individual making a case for experience gained, I know of several people who have all been granted CF on their first application. A lot depends on the force area you're in,their particular policies (law is one thing but all CPOs will provide justification for policies so its not a level playing field). You need to understand "good reason" and joining a gun club wont count much towards safety in the field on your own. Shooting an air rifle won't either. What may help is DSC1 plus a few stalks, some experience with a rimfire at a club so you can demonstrate safe handling, then make a case for the land (after getting a farmer to grant written permission) by walking it with your FEO and pointing out where it was safe to shoot and why (back stops, no PRW close by etc etc). If you provide the evidence like that, you'll get your FAC. No mentoring needed. I went from Shotgun, to 22LR plus 17hmr on 1st application, then after some years, got 223 and 308 on a variation. Good reason was provided along with landowner permission and DSC1 helped a lot. Youi have to put the time in. There's no fast track or short cuts to CF and I'd be a little worried if there were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) You might want to have a read up on the guidelines as that's not the case.... To the op, get a farmer to sign a piece of paper stating you can shoot on such land with the address (I know, not as easy as it sounds) and get in for either an fac air or a 17hmr. Personally I'd leave the 22lr. Tin hat on I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. Mentoring? That's not a legal requirement, and with good reason proved and the individual making a case for experience gained, I know of several people who have all been granted CF on their first application. A lot depends on the force area you're in,their particular policies (law is one thing but all CPOs will provide justification for policies so its not a level playing field). You need to understand "good reason" and joining a gun club wont count much towards safety in the field on your own. Shooting an air rifle won't either. What may help is DSC1 plus a few stalks, some experience with a rimfire at a club so you can demonstrate safe handling, then make a case for the land (after getting a farmer to grant written permission) by walking it with your FEO and pointing out where it was safe to shoot and why (back stops, no PRW close by etc etc). If you provide the evidence like that, you'll get your FAC. No mentoring needed. I went from Shotgun, to 22LR plus 17hmr on 1st application, then after some years, got 223 and 308 on a variation. Good reason was provided along with landowner permission and DSC1 helped a lot. Youi have to put the time in. There's no fast track or short cuts to CF and I'd be a little worried if there were! It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... Edited October 5, 2017 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Please quote me the home office GUIDANCE to the police on this re the grant of a centre fire on first grant. You are talking bull**** srspower There's a good ol' boy just up the road from me who got a .243 on first grant only 3 months ago. No mentoring no DSC blah blah just a good reason. You quote 13.26 of the April 2016 Guidance yet this does not exist. Edited October 5, 2017 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... 13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry136 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I was granted a .243 CF on my first application with no mentoring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Scotty1980 unless you have authorisation to shoot suitable land with your shotgun and can get authorisation in writting to use a rife on it then I would suggest you find a local gun club to join. This will give you experience in safe gun handling and also allow you to meet like minded people and you may then get opportunity to go out shooting rabbits with them. You may even be lucky and find a permanent offer this way to buddy up with another club member. An Air rifles is another way but can be very much more expensive than a .22lr and .17hmr which are two good rimfire calibres to start with. If the club shoots CF it will also allow you to get something like a .38 under leaver or .223, .308 for target shooting and again you gain experience. Goodluck Rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me matt Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 It doesn't sound like the OP has even secured land to shoot on yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I could even join a gun club but the probation period may take 6-9 months. You may ask why the hurry? Well for one I may get hit by a bus next week and two, I have only had my shotgun licence for 6 months and it was an absolute ball ache to get my doctors to participate, in the application process. My local firearms licencing office told me on the phone the other day that if I get my FAC application in smartish then they probably wouldn’t even bother with contacting the doctors again. Some clubs, perhaps even some in Nottingham may give you a reduced probation time due to the fact you have an SGC. Very very occasionally, they may waive probation in this case, due to the fact you have passed police checks already. However, the police may or may not like the fact that you have not 'done your time' ie, been taught safety and handling,so may delay your application, even though technically you are a full member. But then again ,youre talking around 3 months for an app in Notts anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Depends what rifle you want, as you have mentioned possibly doing your dsc1 you could do that book a couple of paid stalks then get your fac for a deer legal rifle. Once that is done and you manage to secure some permission somewhere just have your conditions altered and put in for another calibre rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... See. Behave if it's anything to go by I've seen your shooting on YouTube so I'd settle down if I were you... again, have a read of the guidelines and I think you will be quite mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) srspower, on 05 Oct 2017 - 10:49 PM, said: I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... Not true. As walshie and others have said, not true! Where on earth did you get that from srspower, that isn't even in the 2002 Home Office Guidance, and 13.26 of the latest guide is posted in #11 above! Edited October 6, 2017 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) To the OP. As others have said you need suitable land, if you have and there are no skeletons in the cupboard then getting an FAC will be as straightforward as it is for anyone (i.e. usually a pain). If you join an approved club it will be easy to get a FAC in due course, but club membership will only ever let you use the guns at the club, not in the field. Edited October 6, 2017 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossyoak77 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I would go door knocking as its called in the mean time to try to get some land to shoot on. whilst your doing this keep going to the clay range to keep your skill up with 12g/20g etc whatever it is you get get a cheap pcp airgun .22/.177 once you get somewhere to shoot on to control rats/rabbits etc zero it for about 25/30yd you can learn your fieldcraft with that and then once you've started getting sucess with it. then apply for your fac once you have got the farmer to sign a land permission letter you dont have to use the police one's which are usually convoluted, just write your own up and just have the farmer sign and date it start off with as said small cals eg fac air, 17hmr apply for both. your fac air or 22lr for quiet shooting at shorter ranges and the 17hmr for longer range then once you've had those for a bit you can then move up if and when the need arises please remember one thing for shooting out in the field if it's not safe or you dont feel comfortable with the shot dont take it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... That last paragraph is simply untrue Im afraid. Either that or a few folk I know are in breach of the law with the full consent of their licensing authority.There are no shortcuts OP, Im afraid. As others have suggested; there are ways and means but all take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I have, and threatened my local firearms licensing unit with legal action and won. Have you? If not then I suggest you look up the home office guidelines yourself. It is unlawful for a centrefire calibre to be granted on a first application without mentoring or a DSC1 in England and Wales. It states it quite clearly in the home office guidelines. I suggest you check section 13.26 of the home office guidance ... 13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species. Copied straight out... where does it day ANYTHING about centrefire on first application?... again, go have a read through the h/o guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Threaten your local force with legal action, that should hurry things along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) 13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species. Copied straight out... where does it day ANYTHING about centrefire on first application?... again, go have a read through the h/o guidance. That paragraph is in reference to the previous mentioned calibres for shooting foxes and Deer. Everything from .220 swift upwards. The fact is you DO need to prove experience in the field to have any of those calibres. It's not like I haven't been through this with the very guy from BASC who co wrote the guidance! My argument was I had been shooting .22lr in the field for two years and so I met the requirements. And after threatening West Mercia with legal action and reporting them to the PCC I won and I now have a .243 with a 500 round limit. So all of you saying you don't need experience for a centrefire you are wrong and the guidance is as plain as day. Edited October 7, 2017 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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