Follow up deer gun.

[Graham M]

A couple of lads in my syndicate have pistols as a follow up gun for deer that may not have been killed cleanly. I was thinking of something along these lines for when I go out with one of them as a shooting partner (we have a rule that newer lads can't shoot alone) and thought, why not use my .357 Winchester U/L rifle instead.

Applied to Staffordshire Firearms dept and received an email telling me NO!!!

So now I will have to apply for a pistol..............Where's the sense in that???

[Scully]

Can you not use the rifle it was shot with?

[ips]

Out of interest what type of pistols can be owned, is it stated on ticket that it is only for despatch, what fa section are they??

[JRDS]

Can you not use the rifle it was shot with?

 

Radical Why on earth would you need a pistol as Scully says just shoot it again if needed with your rifle but if you are not 100% you shouldn't take the shot anyway.

[Red-dot]

.410 single shot shotgun does the job. No need for a pistol.

[moorvale55]

+1 with Red dot or use the rifle you took the shot with. You don't need anything else.

Edited October 11, 2017 by moorvale55

[Jaymo]

Whilst I can understand the ‘use the rifle you shot it with’ , I’m more with the two following thoughts

 

1 why not , if it’s possible to obtain one for dispatch then can’t see why you wouldn’t

2 far prefer to use a .38spl at a meter than my .300 win mag- it’s not a case of backstop etc as usually these shots are to a wounded animal laying on the ground— but what’s just below the surface and how much more meat damage is to be had?

 

Our last dispatch shot was in some very dense undergrowth whereby even walking through it was difficult- yet alone with a rifle.

A holstered pistol would have been easier, that’s for sure.

[Walker570]

? What deer in the UK require a 300Win Mag to do the job then you talk about meat damage. If you've cocked up the first shot and the animal is wounded then the last thought should be meat damage. Getting the animal dead quickly is far more important. Anyway a shot in the back of the head is not going to cause much meat damage anyway. I know of one or two pro vermin control operatives who have a permit for a handgun for humane despatch but I cannot ever think of one occasion in over 40yrs of shooting a lot of big deer sized animals when I have needed a handgun. Edited October 11, 2017 by Walker570

[Scully]

I was thinking similar as regards a shot to the head.

[scotslad]

Do u have a trained tracking dog? Wot species of der do u stalk? Wot type of cover?

 

I know a couple of folk with a pistol and to be honest I can't really see the point in it.(they both take a lot of clients out and have well trained tracking dogs and mainly work in very thick SS forests)Just more to carry.

But carrying a 2nd rifle around for when u wound 1 sounds a bit silly, usually bad enough carrying 1 rifle.

 

If ur wounding so many deer u should go back to practiceing more or treat ur self to a better scope or a range finder.

Unfortunately it will always happen but it should be a tiny % if folk are shooting within there limits (assuming they know there limits) and not taking shots there not experienced enough to take (brain and spine shots)or longer distance in adverse weather/wind or in a poor position.

 

The only occasion I can see a possible need would be HD for RTA's but even then a shotgun would be a far better tool (nowhere near the ricochet danger)

[Scotty1980]

All very valid points. I have heard of people having them and always just thought of it as a c@ck extension!

[kyska]

.410 single shot shotgun does the job. No need for a pistol.

Yup

[Dunkield]

Why not shoot them properly in the first place?

Another radical suggestion

[Graham M]

Why not shoot them properly in the first place?

Another radical suggestion

Ah.............if only we all lived in that perfect world where the first shot is absolutely lethal and the beast drops on the spot. Never has even the best stalker in the world ever pulled a shot..........or the deer moved on the shot.............. or a million other things happen.

 

If anyone had read the post correctly (obviously not) I stated that the gun was to be used when I went out as a SHOOTING PARTNER with one of the new lads. This would mean that HE would be doing the shooting and I would follow up if and when necessary. No way would I be carrying two rifles

 

Goodness me, no wonder we can't get anything off our police firearms dept's when we seem determined to object to anything other shooters may want.

[lancer425]

A couple of lads in my syndicate have pistols as a follow up gun for deer that may not have been killed cleanly. I was thinking of something along these lines for when I go out with one of them as a shooting partner (we have a rule that newer lads can't shoot alone) and thought, why not use my .357 Winchester U/L rifle instead.

Applied to Staffordshire Firearms dept and received an email telling me NO!!!

So now I will have to apply for a pistol..............Where's the sense in that???

Even if you had been granted the UL .357 i think you would get sick of lugging it around when you could just be there with a pistol.

The single .410 is not such a bad idea if the encumbrance of a long gun is acceptable and a cheaper less bureaucratic route to getting this job done.

[Davyo]

Why not shoot them properly in the first place?

Another radical suggestion

 

+ 1

love to know where the shot placement is?

Never lost a deer yet & never had to make a follow up shot.If you hit the kill area it's not going far.Very few drop on the spot,They effectively run dead,I'd suggest a good dog.If I were to take someone out id be wanting to witness them punch paper 1st.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Davyo

[scotslad]

Either use his rifle then or carry ur own empty until needed.

 

I doubt taking a novice out every now and again would be good enough reason to posses a handgun.

 

U didn't mention if u have a trained deer dog? If not how would u get close enough to be within effective pistol range (sometimes restricted to 2 shots and strict rules on practicing)

If u can get in close enough to use a pistol the deer can't be very mobile and without a dog u'd be better of with a rifle anyway

 

Must admit I tend to agree with scotty above or a way to flout the ban

[Benthejockey]

If your force are going to let you have one get one. I would if I had reason to own one. It shows exactly the sort of attitude that was being talked about in the 50cal thread. We are all supposed to be shooting enthusiasts. That means we enjoy guns. We are also treading a fine line between having guns and not having guns. Im not suggesting anyone should go and stockpile hundreds of guns but if you want something and can justify to the police why you want it then go for it. And as a shooting community we shouldnt be fighting amongst ourselves about what guns are acceptable. Just because you dont want a pistol for humane dispatch why is it a problem that someone else would want one?

My uncle is under staffs and he says theyre incredibly strict but they do offer humane dispatch firearms to quite a lot of people apparently.

[Scully]

Whether theres one or two of you; I simply cant see why the rifle it was originally shot with cant be used to finish the job?

[Dekers]

Minefield of a question, but a .357 Mag may well be the answer, as you can use a 38 in it as well, giving you circa 200-500ft lb.

 

Just the same the chances of you getting it in these circumstances are slim to say the least (round these parts anyway)!

Edited October 11, 2017 by Dekers

[Jaymo]

Wrote a lovely long piece relating to shot placement/.300 win mags etc but silly iPad died before posting it and on restart it had ‘gone’

 

Anyway, not all of us shoot solely in the UK, the local boys where I was living all used .300 win mag and then ‘some more’.

Do worry about people’s attitude to calibres sometimes, oooh, that too big etc ( often the same weight for some of the 308’s circa 168gr, so where is this conflict from)

 

Ideal shot placement, can you all honestly say you have never either pulled a shot, been over confident or had an animal suddenly turn away?

I know I have, it’s not nice but it happens.

 

‘One to the back of the head’ Oh come on- we been watching some old gangsta movies, we do it from the front if absolutely necessary.

Do prefer not to, as a good head is good money.

 

I think Benthejockey has it right in many ways, we’re a minority community who seem to want to protect our sport, but only the parts we agree with.

So, if it’s able to be granted by the HO, then there must be a ‘good reason’ and not just a few who want to ‘willy wave’ or play at Mitty wanting one.

Would I apply for one? Nope, already have two for use in France :-)

[Dunkield]

I am not a professional stalker and would never claim to be, but I have shot a decent amount of deer now.

In the last year I have completely missed 2 (my fault entirely) and 'chipped' another, for the latter I reloaded and shot it again as soon as I could safely do so.

 

This would mean that HE would be doing the shooting and I would follow up if and when necessary. No way would I be carrying two rifles

 

Then you take his rifle off him and follow up with that.

[Mice!]

Not sure why folk are saying having a pistol is silly, I read a book from the library a while back on stalking and it said its common in Europe for stalkers to use a pistol for humane dispatch, also used by guys who track wounded dear saying a track could take two to three hours.

[Dekers]

Not sure why folk are saying having a pistol is silly, I read a book from the library a while back on stalking and it said its common in Europe for stalkers to use a pistol for humane dispatch, also used by guys who track wounded dear saying a track could take two to three hours.

 

Who said having a pistol was "silly"

 

A pistol has its uses, I have one and find it invaluable, at times, but this is the UK, not Europe or the USA.

 

We have the Law to content with, and as much as I consider it daft in may respects we are where we are!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

? What deer in the UK require a 300Win Mag to do the job then you talk about meat damage. If you've cocked up the first shot and the animal is wounded then the last thought should be meat damage. Getting the animal dead quickly is far more important. Anyway a shot in the back of the head is not going to cause much meat damage anyway. I know of one or two pro vermin control operatives who have a permit for a handgun for humane despatch but I cannot ever think of one occasion in over 40yrs of shooting a lot of big deer sized animals when I have needed a handgun.

 

Absolutely bang on the money!