Labour and game birds

[crosswaters]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Labour have a very simple technique, they identify gullable people and then promise them something for nothing

this

[Guest stevo]

4 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Was a BBC article on how Labour want to make allowing pets in rented properties the default, not the landlords choice. It went on to list other things including ditching the badger culls, loop holes in foxhunting and the rearing of game birds intensively. 

The article your on about actually say about the restricting the mass  rearing of game birds for shooting. It also goes on about banning live animal exports for slaughter outside the UK. Nothing about the  banning of game shooting or parts of. Just clamping down. In other words. 

Kiss your big Sindicate shoots good bye ?

Edited February 14, 2018 by stevo

[TriBsa]

The impact on the rearing industry and associated jobs aside, would moving to a sustainable wild bird only model for big shoots be possible? It seems to work for Grouse. Just asking, not advocating although I did have muesli for breakfast.

Edited February 14, 2018 by TriBsa

[Old farrier]

23 minutes ago, stevo said:

The article your on about actually say about the restricting the mass  rearing of game birds for shooting. It also goes on about banning live animal exports for slaughter outside the UK. Nothing about the  banning of game shooting or parts of. Just clamping down. In other words. 

Kiss your big Sindicate shoots good bye ?

Or kiss your game farms that sell to a lot of small shoots good bye along with your beef and sheep farmers 

rearing is rearing I struggle to define mass and restrictions 

theres enough control with the weather and the price without government intervention 

the big syndicate would just bye from a lot of small producers or rearing in house 

labour seem to be grasping for votes at any cost without a thought for the financial implications 

ps not having a go at your post stevo this is just the one that came up 

[ShootingEgg]

33 minutes ago, stevo said:

The article your on about actually say about the restricting the mass  rearing of game birds for shooting. It also goes on about banning live animal exports for slaughter outside the UK. Nothing about the  banning of game shooting or parts of. Just clamping down. In other words. 

Kiss your big Sindicate shoots good bye ?

Where in my post did I say they were banning shooting? I said the rearing for shoots... Also if f the rearing is banned it wont be big corporate syndicates it will be ALL shoots big or not! 

[Guest stevo]

hey OF no worries mate ? I’ve not had a full chance to read up on what’s been said at the min. To busy at work. So I’m just sort of thumbing though bits and pieces. Either way I think it’s going to be a very interesting year one way or another ?

[Guest stevo]

4 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Where in my post did I say they were banning shooting? I said the rearing for shoots... Also if f the rearing is banned it wont be big corporate syndicates it will be ALL shoots big or not! 

Sorry mucker it was the bit where you said there stopping the rearing of game birds for shooting. 

Quote

Just read on news that they are looking at stopping the rearing of game birds for shooting

 

got my wires crossed ?

[Jaymo]

Guess we will have to circumvent the regs?

Anyone for a ‘day on the chickens’?

[ShootingEgg]

11 minutes ago, stevo said:

Sorry mucker it was the bit where you said there stopping the rearing of game birds for shooting. 

Quote

Just read on news that they are looking at stopping the rearing of game birds for shooting

 

got my wires crossed ?

Thats cool, thought i might of worded it wrong.. But yeah not great. 

 

The main BBC headline about pets is  also an issue, I currently rent my house out due to my circumstances, luckily have a good family network so stay with them. But I know from experience pets can be a nightmare if you have the wrong kind of owners. Alot of money spent fixing problems, so yes its great that Tennants would have that guarantee of being allowed pets, but landlords will just raise the rent accordingly. So that lovely pledge will push rental pricing up. Obviously thats just my opinion. 

[Davyo]

Thing is ,who's going to eat Pheasant ? it has to be the dullest meat ive ever tasted.

[matone]

4 hours ago, notsosureshot said:

Soon?  Goodness me it's been going on for 50 odd years.

It has indeed but I fear the day is coming closer by the year that they get their way.

[bumpy22]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

I thought old Mrs May was going to give a free vote on fox hunting to, my voting days are over they are all as bad as each other. 

[JohnfromUK]

3 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Corbyn ridiculed at every opportunity, yet the result proved different.

He is clever at campaigning, & this is just one way of gaining extra votes.

Labour (and especially their hard left members) have always wanted to 'hit back' at those they perceive as 'privileged'.  Any opportunity to take away something enjoyed by those they see as privileged will have support of the left section of their party - and that is the section that firmly pulls the strings of power now.  There are a number of very nasty pieces of work just under the surface - Jon Lansman is one (was pals with the BBC's Andrew Marr who has a very left of centre background), Len McClusky, and a host of other people who in the past have voiced some very worrying views.

He IS clever at campaigning, no doubt about that, but he can never follow through on his promises.  He won't be able to raise the money.  It is easy to promise the earth when you are in opposition, because you don't get called on to deliver.  I am amazed the despite the 'foot in mouth' performance of Diane Abbott and the Marxist policies of John MacDonald - people believe in the 'for the many, not the few' slogan.  I happen to think it is a pack of lies - they are for the few as well - ALL politicians only really care about themselves, and their party donors.  How can anyone believe Diane Abbott could run a department like the Home Office when she can't even organise her own thoughts into credible answers?

However, the real reason Mrs May did so badly at the last election is that her party ran a truly AWFUL campaign.  It could hardly have been worse.  Penalise the pensioners, 'take' peoples houses to pay for care, vote on bringing back hunting (whatever you may think, that is a vote looser if ever there was one) ....... I could go on.

[stumfelter]

Game shooting is fast becoming the new fox-hunting and I fear that it's days are numbered.

[Howling Hound]

Enjoy the shooting over the next 5 years before the next government bans it. The policy's of Mr Corbin will cause so much chaos that most changes will be bogged down. Banning shooting probably in all forms including clay will be easy to push through giving an easy victory. The Anitis can drop their idea into a simple sound bite 'its just the privileged Toffs and fat cats sadistically slaughtering masses of wild life for their own perverted pleasure' Of course that comment can be totally debunked and laid false, but try doing it in a sound bite - can not be done. The minimum is 2-3 pages. Most uninitiated people would loose interest in the first paragraph and simply shrug their shoulders.

We will not win this one

[islandgun]

4 minutes ago, Howling Hound said:

Enjoy the shooting over the next 5 years before the next government bans it. The policy's of Mr Corbin will cause so much chaos that most changes will be bogged down. Banning shooting probably in all forms including clay will be easy to push through giving an easy victory. The Anitis can drop their idea into a simple sound bite 'its just the privileged Toffs and fat cats sadistically slaughtering masses of wild life for their own perverted pleasure' Of course that comment can be totally debunked and laid false, but try doing it in a sound bite - can not be done. The minimum is 2-3 pages. Most uninitiated people would loose interest in the first paragraph and simply shrug their shoulders.

We will not win this one

 Spot on HH, I was in the process of writing something along those very lines,  I would think clays and some strictly controlled pest shooting will still be allowed....

[yod dropper]

Political parties are essentially coalitions.  In Labour's coalition is one faction which would see our activities seriously curtailed or outright banned.  

[Blackpowder]

Some of the keenest beaters, pickers up, rabbiters I have met have been from the one time mining villages of Northumberland, without a doubt long term Labour voters.  These are the people who need to put the point across that field sports are no longer the sole domain of the wealthy and privately educated.    Shooting today draws participants from  across a wide spectrum of society, especially those known as the WORKING CLASS.

Blackpowder

[ShootingEgg]

Just read that a fox has killed a cat and attacked a 7month old girl in Plymouth. Was only a matter of time before this was going to happen, and im sure its happened before when foxes have got into houses etc. 

[Bobba]

Many of the arguements used by the Anti's are based on moral / ethical / cruelty issues. They have yet to focus on the price per gun/day. If you choose an expensive shoot (and they will in order to make their case) eg Ripley Castle then you are looking at £1,800 day + vat = over £2,200. In other words some people spend more in one day killing when a great percentage of the population run their home and family for a month on less than this sum. Whether folk are labour or conservative this sort of financial statistic hurts. Sadly, it seems to be a ticking clock.

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Bobba said:

They have yet to focus on the price per gun/day............. Whether folk are labour or conservative this sort of financial statistic hurts. Sadly, it seems to be a ticking clock.

This is true, but it is equally true for many major sports and leisure activities, the price of tickets to Wimbledon, major matches, concerts, major race days ... the list goes on.

There is also the 'worrying' aspect as to who is paying.  Many of these expensive guns/seats/places are paid for by corporates entertaining their customers and suppliers.  I'm not sure how much this is the case nowadays as laws have been tightened on 'anti bribery', but many major businesses used to have boxes at the races, but days on shoots, entertain guests at Wimbledon, Henly, Cheltenham, Ascot, Wembley, Cowes week, the Royal Opera House and more.

Shooting is a target and I can see that the "moral/ethical /cruelty issues" play a part in this, but I don't thing looked at objectively it is worse as an expensive activity - and there is a whole load of ammunition there for the 'left leaning' in terms of corporate entertainment.

[Uilleachan]

21 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I said it in the James Bulger thread - everyone was shouting that the public has a right to decide how things are done and it shouldn’t be left to educated professionals with experience in the field! 

Well soon the public will be lobbied to vote to ban hunting in other forms, town folk who have no knowledge of the countryside and farming etc. They’re propped up with cute pictures of foxes and badgers and will only vote one way ... 

 

^ That 

Thats how it's seen by a huge section of the population these days, the result of the rise in post brexit referendum populism/public engagement, depending on your view, empowering the man at the bus stop, who previously hadn't a political thought in his head but is now railing against global elites and soon to be railing against perceived elites closer to home, looking to shape post brexit Britain, deciding who to vote for, deciding how his tax contribution should be spent. 

An unintended consequence perhaps but a very real consequence none the less, is the fact that much of the countryside we shoot over is about to be subject to a radical revision in how it's funded, by way of public subsidy. The public will have a say, or at least the politicians will be setting out their stalls to tap in to the discontent to attract voters by shaping a dragnet of bundled generic grievance, angry voters angry at what ever it is they're angry about. 

Thats what labour are doing with their consultation, which I took a look at from the link supplied by David @ BASC in the other thread and, it reads like a fisherman's fly box with a dressing to attract a wide range of conflicting dissident opinion. 

Public opinion, or more accurately a generic one size fits all version of it, the sub political rival versions of it, influenced by the popular media, being drafted and punted by labour and the tories; will dictate/decide the way forward as to what takes place in the country for those in receipt of public subsidy and this will include policy over blood sports/country pursuits. And yes, this will be an urban heavy opinion as the vast bulk of the population are urbanites. A post brexit townie onslaught   cheered on by the popular media looking to boost sales by peddling outrage, catered for by the political parties coming forward with fresh policy to tap in and attract votes.  

For any that don't see it, have a quick click through these links related to the current EU subsidy system and the influences shaping the thinking on what will replace it. 

Setting the scene 

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21641/agriculture/farming-subsidies-in-the-uk/   

establishing the facts (to be used in the shallowest populist facebook-esque way, so coming to a twitter meme/facebook share near you, soon)

https://fullfact.org/economy/farming-subsidies-uk/ 

shaping public opinion on the left and right

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-farming-subsidies-billionaires-high-uk-rich-list-recipients-brexit-james-dyson-earl-rosebery-cap-a7815871.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/823054/Common-Agricultural-Policy-CAP-EU-subsidy-Rich-List-farmers

What the present government is saying

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40673559

I believe the biggest risk to shooting sports we face will come about through an inevitable change in land use, bundled together with unfavourable public opinion the signs aren't looking good, for the medium term perhaps but it's already in the post. Such are the laws of unintended consequence.  

[Bobba]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

This is true, but it is equally true for many major sports and leisure activities, the price of tickets to Wimbledon, major matches, concerts, major race days ... the list goes on.

I certainly agree with your point here. However, it is not these activities which are coming under fire (sorry, couldn't resist), but shooting is and in particular pheasant and grouse shooting. People of all persuasions and incomes will happily pay to go to concerts etc. and probably hold no grievance against those who choose to go when they do not. My point is that when the Anti's construct their case then should they choose to include the cost per gun day, irrespective of who is paying, then this can be a persuasive arguement on lower income families.

[old man]

On 14/02/2018 at 11:56, Vince Green said:

Labour have a very simple technique, they identify gullable people and then promise them something for nothing

That could quite possibly be true?

The Tories then as an alternative promise to give a country for all and protect the NHS only to help it's demise and privatise it by stealth?

Best not mention the aims of the 'also rans,' maybe?

The universal colour of politics could be brown? 

 

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, old man said:

That could quite possibly be true?

The Tories then as an alternative promise to give a country for all and protect the NHS only to help it's demise and privatise it by stealth?

Best not mention the aims of the 'also rans,' maybe?

The universal colour of politics could be brown? 

 

 we've had a Labour govt, it was 5years + of free stuff for everyone, then we run out of money as a country and will be 15 years of picking up the pieces and blaming the  current  govt for said carp created..