The EU Conspiracy Theory

[Rewulf]

49 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Even I have to admit that JRM is one cool character and utilising facts rather than supposition is a plus

Boeis in the other hand is a liability in all walks of life

+1 

The Moggs a sharp cookie, he needs to be front line in negotiations.

Boris , errr..nope.

36 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

No deal is actually a very attractive option. the trouble is that it is being punted around by the remoaners as being some sort of catastrophic Chicken Little like disaster. Its far from that, it means we walk away and make a clean break. No strings attached, you go your way and I'll go mine

We are certainly never going to get a better deal than no deal from the EU, you would have to believe in Father Christmas, the tooth fairy and then some before you believe they would give us anything even remotely better. That is just never going to happen. The idea that we are able to "negotiate" a more positive deal for us is cloud cuckoo land.

What could serious happen though if all these soft Brexit plonkers get their say is that we could negotiate a significantly worse deal than no deal with lots of strings attached and that would be a true disaster.

We have to be aware of the negative impact that the expression 'no deal' is having on the way public opinion is being manipulated. It just means leave, that's what we voted to do.'

The EU want all its cake, and ours too .

It wants to either give us a bad deal ,cop billions in payments to bolster it's knackered budget, and hopefully smash our economy, this would be a lesson to any other country thinking of leaving.

Or, force us into a no deal scenario, making us look bad on the world stage for being intransigent. Whilst they plead they did everything possible to make it work. Hopefully smashing our economy, and not really caring about damaging the other countries within the blocs economies.

They would burn Europe rather than give us a favourable deal, self preservation of the elite.

Hopefully people can see this, and act accordingly, I think we are starting to see this happen across the channel, despite the media attempting to brush it under the carpet, and stupid distraction  stories about russian threats.

The next few months are going to be interesting.

[besty57]

4 hours ago, Vince Green said:

No deal is actually a very attractive option. the trouble is that it is being punted around by the remoaners as being some sort of catastrophic Chicken Little like disaster. Its far from that, it means we walk away and make a clean break. No strings attached, you go your way and I'll go mine

We are certainly never going to get a better deal than no deal from the EU, you would have to believe in Father Christmas, the tooth fairy and then some before you believe they would give us anything even remotely better. That is just never going to happen. The idea that we are able to "negotiate" a more positive deal for us is cloud cuckoo land.

What could serious happen though if all these soft Brexit plonkers get their say is that we could negotiate a significantly worse deal than no deal with lots of strings attached and that would be a true disaster.

We have to be aware of the negative impact that the expression 'no deal' is having on the way public opinion is being manipulated. It just means leave, that's what we voted to do.'

Exactly. over 17 million of us ?,who are never mentioned, it's all about the minority, if the vote had gone the other way, I wonder how many would be bleating like sheep,just accept it and move on,

 

[RockySpears]

19 hours ago, Jaymo said:

even the much mooted Airbus whereby we have invested heavily and if Airbus Industries pull out we then loose out

 Getting back to the OP.  Companies do not often just "pull out", they are paid to leave one place and go to another.  I worked at BAe at Dunsfold and Brough, one R & D, one assembly and testing.  You cannot just up-sticks and leave, you simply can't.  You have to build a new facility whilst operating the first, you have to duplicate machinery and men and materials, then you decommission the old plant.  This is massive duplication if you want to avoid a hiatus in production. There are only a few times when you might be able to do this and that is when you are setting up a new facility making new parts and that is a rare occurrence.

  The whole point here is that firms follow the money, the money we pay in that is then given to firms to go somewhere else.  That is wrong, so we're leaving.

 

RS

[Jaymo]

29 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

 Getting back to the OP.  Companies do not often just "pull out", they are paid to leave one place and go to another.  I worked at BAe at Dunsfold and Brough, one R & D, one assembly and testing.  You cannot just up-sticks and leave, you simply can't.  You have to build a new facility whilst operating the first, you have to duplicate machinery and men and materials, then you decommission the old plant.  This is massive duplication if you want to avoid a hiatus in production. There are only a few times when you might be able to do this and that is when you are setting up a new facility making new parts and that is a rare occurrence.

  The whole point here is that firms follow the money, the money we pay in that is then given to firms to go somewhere else.  That is wrong, so we're leaving.

 

RS

Aaaah, But Airbus already has various Plants around Europe- should know as been to most ? so it’s not like they start from scratch

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Aaaah, But Airbus already has various Plants around Europe- should know as been to most ? so it’s not like they start from scratch

So they have a spare one just waiting for the move? Or are you suggesting the others would be capable of taking the additional work?

[Jaymo]

Newbie

Neither of us knows, nor does the press or and Government official.

But when someone who actually represents the Company makes a statement then I’m inclined to listen.

Bit of a daft thing about ‘having a spare’ , as opposed to the question of- do they have space in their current operations to transfer tooling and production, somewhat easier.

Ever taken a look around the assembly plants in Germany and in Toulouse plus Marseille in France? Nope, didn’t think you had but I have.... 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Newbie

Neither of us knows, nor does the press or and Government official.

But when someone who actually represents the Company makes a statement then I’m inclined to listen.

Bit of a daft thing about ‘having a spare’ , as opposed to the question of- do they have space in their current operations to transfer tooling and production, somewhat easier.

Ever taken a look around the assembly plants in Germany and in Toulouse plus Marseille in France? Nope, didn’t think you had but I have.... 

Like I said, Airbus have been making these threats for years; long before the referendum according to those in the know.

If they go they go; it won’t stop us leaving. 

[panoma1]

As I see it, really, all this is just diversionary hyperbole, if you reduce it down to basics, remainers are merely those looking after their own self serving interests, nothing to do with community or for the good of the UK and all its peoples! Those that benefit either personally or organisationally (or expect to in the future) from handouts from the EU (everyone's money redistributed from the many to the few) or the frightened.......are remainers, the majority, that pay into the EU and personally get little or nothing out, refuse to be threatened and want UK sovereignty restored.........are brexiteers.

[Scully]

I recall in the first few days after the referendum result, a young local girl currently attending drama school, and from very affluent parents, exclaiming on social media that those who voted to leave were mostly from the older generation and selfish in their actions, as she claimed they had ruined the lives and futures of the younger generation.

i wasn’t too hard on her as she is young, but pointed out to her that if she really wanted to consider a generation which had had their lives and futures needlessly sacrificed a hundred years previously. That was true ruination.

I didn’t hear from her again, but read about a month later in the local rag that she was attending a drama scholarship in Bulgaria.

She is currently in theatre in the West End.

Not my interpretation of being ruined.

 

[Westward]

 

32 minutes ago, Scully said:

I recall in the first few days after the referendum result, a young local girl currently attending drama school, and from very affluent parents, exclaiming on social media that those who voted to leave were mostly from the older generation and selfish in their actions, as she claimed they had ruined the lives and futures of the younger generation.

 

I think a majority of leavers were older generation and I think many on here know exactly why. I have 3 sons and one in particular one works in the banking industry was furious at the vote to leave and implied much the same as the girl in your post and also suggested that we were only thinking of ourselves. We didn't fall out over it, especially when I pointed out that it was in fact his generation I was thinking of rather than mine because I did not want this country to be progressively impoverished in order to boost living standards in some distant, tiny, peasant based country where they eat swans.

[Vince Green]

A friend of ours voted to remain "because she likes to go to Spain for her holidays"

when I posted that elsewhere somebody came back and said they had a friend who voted to remain because they liked French cheese

A lot of remainers were of the older generation too! and senile by the sound of it.

Nobody mentions all the Europeans in the country who were wrongly given voting cards and voted when they weren't supposed to. My Mum's carer was one of them so I know it happened. Was that by accident or design? Somebody was supposed to be looking into that but it has gone very quiet 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Vince Green

[243deer]

Just taking a view on one product group - wine 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303297/uk-wine-imports-leading-5-countries-by-value/

Once we leave the EU and there is a terrible downturn in trade (as promised continuously and consistently by every remoaner that I have spoken to) we will obviously have to import all our wine from elsewhere in the world .......

or not

about time the scare tactics stopped and politicians started acting as grown ups

there will inevitably be some changes but trade will still go on and police will still talk to each other. I have not seen any plans by P and O to sell off ferries or or the tunnel, rolling stock.

Don't politicians love their own self importance 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

20 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Just taking a view on one product group - wine 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303297/uk-wine-imports-leading-5-countries-by-value/

Once we leave the EU and there is a terrible downturn in trade (as promised continuously and consistently by every remoaner that I have spoken to) we will obviously have to import all our wine from elsewhere in the world .......

or not

about time the scare tactics stopped and politicians started acting as grown ups

there will inevitably be some changes but trade will still go on and police will still talk to each other. I have not seen any plans by P and O to sell off ferries or or the tunnel, rolling stock.

Don't politicians love their own self importance 

Indeed it is.

[Rewulf]

31 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Just taking a view on one product group - wine 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303297/uk-wine-imports-leading-5-countries-by-value/

Once we leave the EU and there is a terrible downturn in trade (as promised continuously and consistently by every remoaner that I have spoken to) we will obviously have to import all our wine from elsewhere in the world .......

or not

about time the scare tactics stopped and politicians started acting as grown ups

there will inevitably be some changes but trade will still go on and police will still talk to each other. I have not seen any plans by P and O to sell off ferries or or the tunnel, rolling stock.

Don't politicians love their own self importance 

Absolutely, anybody would think that the EU can tell individual companies what  and who ,they can sell their products to, they can't,  what they can do is alter the tariffs to make their products less inviting.

There seems to be a general idea amongst many people, that the EU, from Brussels, controls Europe, if this were the case why do we have general elections in each member nation?

The EU seems to think it  holds illusory power that has not been granted. Certainly not yet anyway.

The realisation sovereign countries will not do as they are told, is beginning to Dawn on them.

[JohnfromUK]

41 minutes ago, 243deer said:

....... politicians started acting as grown ups

This is unrealistic.

You cannot expect politicians to start acting as grown ups, .......  any more than you can expect them to be honest with the public and genuine on their actual expenses.  It won't happen.  They are not made that way.

[Newbie to this]

20 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Newbie

Neither of us knows, nor does the press or and Government official.

But when someone who actually represents the Company makes a statement then I’m inclined to listen.

Bit of a daft thing about ‘having a spare’ , as opposed to the question of- do they have space in their current operations to transfer tooling and production, somewhat easier.

Ever taken a look around the assembly plants in Germany and in Toulouse plus Marseille in France? Nope, didn’t think you had but I have.... 

It was meant to be a daft question, and you are right I haven't been to their plants which is why I asked the second question. But I'm pretty sure I know the answer to both questions,

No they don't have a spare plant and no the other plants can't take up the extra work, if I'm wrong on the second then the move would be happening regardless of us voting out, just look at all the other companies the EU has paid to leave the UK on the list.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Newbie to this

[old man]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

This is unrealistic.

You cannot expect politicians to start acting as grown ups, .......  any more than you can expect them to be honest with the public and genuine on their actual expenses.  It won't happen.  They are not made that way.

Absolutely true. 

Seemingly, mainly driven to decisions by stupidity, self aggrandisement, zealous persuit of some objective for unseen sponsors?

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, old man said:

Seemingly, mainly driven to decisions by stupidity, self aggrandisement, zealous persuit of some objective for unseen sponsors?

I think it is simpler than that; they are driven by GREED.  Greed for power over others and others money (mainly left wingers), and to a lesser extent greed for money for themselves (both left and right wingers).

Edited June 27, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[old man]

19 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think it is simpler than that; they are driven by GREED.  Greed for power over others and others money (mainly left wingers), and to a lesser extent greed for money for themselves (both left and right wingers).

Thinking on, maybe we are so wrong?

They are striving to improve the health and wealth of the population? ??

[Gunman]

On 25/06/2018 at 20:18, 12gauge82 said:

Was this the one? I thought it shows how unreasonable and vindictive an organisation the EU is, they are purposely trying to stir the troubles in Erie and Northen Ireland to try and prevent us leaving. Who'd want to be a member of a club like that?

When intelligence meets a political blockheads so far up their own ***** its almost painful to watch .

[12gauge82]

Just now, Gunman said:

When intelligence meets a political blockheads so far up their own ***** its almost painful to watch .

Yes it exposes the tailspin the EU is in when they need to manufacture an issue to justify their behaviour towards the UK, it also exposes they have next to no leverage either or they would use something sensible like if we don't buy X they won't buy Y, but since we buy 5x more from them than they buy from us, it would never work.