Morrisman Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Being a keen bird watcher as well as a shooter, I'm well displeased with this. https://www.birdguides.com/news/gamekeeper-guilty-of-shooting-short-eared-owls/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter290818&eid=592264&_ccCt=i1yEVqYM8aQJawMDTYQHrlcAbURZZzKdx~VWIfFcD3saKQp5n7jt8f~gqpRqXqVn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Shames us all. In public opinion, all the good work done by keepers counts for nothing when this sort of thing happens. Having watched the film, I find my blood boiling. Who is the owner of this moor? Who is the agent? Edited August 29, 2018 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Having being in a grouse shooting syndicate many years ago (couldn't afford it now!), we found that birds of prey took only an insignificant number of grouse to make no difference to the population. Foxes, crows and stoats were not welcome however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 These tow rags give decent and law abiding shooters a bad name .hope the take his license off him .and sort the land owner out for letting him do it ( or did he tell him to do it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Pathetic action from a poor excuse of a gamekeeper. Thug comes to mind. After all that's going on at the moment to do with shooting you'd think that anyone with an once of common sense would think twice about this kind of behaviour. But then, is this guy capable of thinking at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Not condoning it, but, these keepers are put under a lot of pressure to show the guns a good head of birds, keepers jobs are not easy to come by and losing your job also means losing your home. an old keeper said to me once....A keeper is only as good as his last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The gouse Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I might be wrong but the courts could have sent him down for two years? But he gets off with £700. Which probably was paid by land owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Yet again some idiot has dragged the reputation of responsible shooting and shooting related conservation into disrepute..........handing a proverbial stick to the antis to beat us with!.....will some people never learn? They were Short Eared Owl....not Hen Harriers! Edited August 29, 2018 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Disgraceful, but Keepers are under pressure and shoot owners should also be held culpable to have more incentive to stop the behaviour. HOWEVER — No mention of Hen Harrier apart from in title .... 0Disgraceful, but Keepers are under pressure and shoot owners should also be held culpable to have more incentive to stop the behaviour. HOWEVER — No mention of Hen Harrier apart from in title .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: Yet again some idiot has dragged the reputation of responsible shooting and shooting related conservation into disrepute..........handing a proverbial stick to the antis to beat us with!.....will some people never learn? Quite right. I'm a shooting man through and through, but laws have to be obeyed. If you break the law - punishment. If you disagree with the law - Parliament. I think he got off very lightly indeed (but all sentences are like that these days.) 2 minutes ago, PPP said: HOWEVER — No mention of Hen Harrier apart from in title .... Good point - what have hen harriers to do with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Ah well.....I despair at times, I really do. Some of the comments are interesting. However, I couldn't find any mention of Hen Harriers anywhere in the article though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob525 Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Shocking this still goes on! At least the hen harriers are safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrisman Posted August 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Yet again some idiot has dragged the reputation of responsible shooting and shooting related conservation into disrepute..........handing a proverbial stick to the antis to beat us with!.....will some people never learn? They were Short Eared Owl....not Hen Harriers! Sorry, did it too quickly to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: Yet again some idiot has dragged the reputation of responsible shooting and shooting related conservation into disrepute..........handing a proverbial stick to the antis to beat us with!.....will some people never learn? This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The gouse Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 41 minutes ago, Morrisman said: Sorry, did it too quickly to think. That’s understandable how’s your mate ferret man??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 What a moron - it's a shame that country sports seems to appeal to many hard of thinking plebs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I work with some conservation bodies, part of my work is raptor monitoring etc. I spend a lot of my time and energy defending the shooting community, trying to build bridges, it's in all our interests to work together. Every time something like this happens it's a total kick in the balls for the shooting community's reputation and a massive "I told you so!" for all the people out there who think that every shooter is out there murdering birds of prey. The fact that this sort of stuff still goes on is utterly ridiculous. ******* cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 4 hours ago, old'un said: Not condoning it, but, these keepers are put under a lot of pressure to show the guns a good head of birds, keepers jobs are not easy to come by and losing your job also means losing your home. an old keeper said to me once....A keeper is only as good as his last season. Wouldn't one of the solutions be to put a restriction on the shooting of game on a particular piece of land if an employee is found to be shooting BOP? Then there would be no pressure put on anyone for fear of losing their shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Must admit while not condoning it, it really is a making a mountain out of a mole hill. Dunno wot the munbers are in eng, but i scotland actual confirmed numbers of raptor persecution is now down to single figures most years. It's not that big a problem probably far more BoP will die flying into power lines and wind turbines than are actually persecuted each year In the last 20 years shooting as came on massively, still have a wee way to go but being honest u'll never ever stop it 100%. People drink and drive all the time yet no one trys to ban either drinking or driving, so folk will always break the law wot ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) It is a problem, because it is deliberate criminality, it damages the image of shooting and there is still far too much of it going on, regardless of the actual conviction rate. Edited August 30, 2018 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 12 hours ago, AVB said: Wouldn't one of the solutions be to put a restriction on the shooting of game on a particular piece of land if an employee is found to be shooting BOP? Then there would be no pressure put on anyone for fear of losing their shooting. That is what the antis want...to licence shoots, so if shoots or shoot owners or shoot employees do anything (not just control Raptors) they don't like or approve of, they can lobby for the the shoots licence be rescinded! Its just the anti shooting extremists using tactics designed, not to protect Raptors, but to curtail and finally ban shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, panoma1 said: That is what the antis want...to licence shoots, so if shoots or shoot owners or shoot employees do anything (not just control Raptors) they don't like or approve of, they can lobby for the the shoots licence be rescinded! Its just the anti shooting extremists using tactics designed, not to protect Raptors, but to curtail and finally ban shooting! And activities like that in the film give them the ammunition to drum up political and public support. Raptor persecution is hugely damaging to shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, stagboy said: It is a problem, because it is deliberate criminality, it damages the image of shooting and there is still far too much of it going on, regardless of the actual conviction rate. Aye but there is still too much drink driving going on too, u don't see other law abiding drivers feeling guility or embarassed over it. I don't drink drive or commit wildlife crime so have absolutley nothing to be embarassed or feel guility over. The boys been caught and punished, probably lose gun licences, job so house/kennels/vehicle, if he's got any kids mibee move school, might find it very difficult to find another job again. The anti's and various charities are just using it as a tool to discredit shooting (have tried banning it straight but realised it will never work) tried or still trying the lead shot angle (why would rspb/wwt be funding studies of lead shot in game meat and its effects on humans) If they really cared about HH they shhould be investing money in langholm, it was producing/fledging 40 odd HH chicks some years on that moor alone, now since the keepering has stopped it will drop back to 2 pairs of HH which will most likely have there nest predated by vermin. The rspn also never supported the HH action plan, because it included brood management (ie moving chicks away from areas to be released in other unpopulated areas) All they care about is the politics and class war there wageing, they see the HH and grouse shooting as the weakest link so are targeting it Panamo in scotland its really not that far away from that stage already, have 2 tools Vicarious? Liability, where they can fine the land owner for any wrong doing/wildlife crimes on his land even if shooting right let out or a 3rd person done the deed, don't thin u even have to be found guilty (know of 1 shoot fined 100+K yet the keeper was never found guility in court) Also SNH now have the power to suspend anyone from using the General Licence if they even SUSPECT they are committing wildlife crimes. While not licensing as such not many wild bird shoots could survive withut using the GL Didn't see the rspb releasing the film of them dropping an Osprey chick from its nest to its death of the ammount of nests deserted by BoP due to disturbance from raptor watchers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, scotslad said: I don't drink drive or commit wildlife crime so have absolutley nothing to be embarassed or feel guility over. I know what you mean, but I have to say that I personally feel embarrassed by the actions of this criminal, because I have spent years telling my birdy friends that it's only a tiny minority, its in decline, etc etc and then the RSPB provide this rock-solid, horrifying evidence and it goes viral. That's not the RSPB's fault for milking it, it's the criminal's fault for breaking the law. And how many of these incidents have we had in the media NW England this year? Remember the horrific Bowland peregrine case. We all know it was keeper who committed that. In this latest case with the owls, was the keeper pressurised into such behaviour? It can happen, as we all know. Who is the owner of the moor in question - have they given any statement? Who paid for his defence in court? And if they did so, why? If I committed a crime at my place of work, there is no way my employer would hire me an expensive legal team, so if that happened here, then what does this tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Not defending the illegal killing of raptors, but let's get this into perspective......how many proven (not suspected or alleged!) cases of the unlawful killing of raptors were there in the UK last year?.........compare that to how many cases of murder (homicide!) there were throughout the UK in the same time period? Is a birds life more important than a human life? If you gauge the media's, protectionists, anti, RSPB, raptor groups etc, etc, shock horror reaction to every report of a raptors death...........and virtually no reaction to the many, many incidences of murder, you would be forgiven for thinking..........it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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