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marsh man

How Hard (Or Easy) Is It To Get Permission Nowadays

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    Reading on the wanted section of the forum I often see new members asking for permission for various types of shooting with pigeon shooting seem to be the most wanted .

    Not to disappoint or dishearten those members who are asking, but very few members on the forum would be in the position to give other people the go ahead to go shooting on some bodies elses land , alright, maybe taking them out the odd day as a guest, or if they are very lucky there might be the odd land owner in there area who are looking for somebody to do there vermin control, but I wouldn't rely on that long shot ( excuse the pun ) as mentioned already 100s of times on the forum , you need to start knocking on a few doors .

    For those looking for Pigeon shooting this is a very good time of the year to start looking , the main crop would be rape , the Pigeons are now starting to build up in some noticeable flocks which the land owner will be aware of and a lot Pigeon shooters of a certain age are not to keen to sit it out in the cold wintry conditions ( me included ), this can be at your advantage at they still can cause damage and still need controlling .

    Luckily I don't no longer want any more ground to shoot over , but if I did I would be out finding where the flocks are building up and seek out the owners , around our way there would be a good chance the land is part of the game shoot , this wouldn't put me off as it only last for a few more weeks and the last shoot might be well away from the rape that is being damaged by pigeons , the farmer cant afford to let it get eaten off for the sake of scaring a few game birds if it is well away from the main drives .

    If you knock on his door , tell him where you seen the pigeons , and is it possible to have a go , either the next day , or within the next few days , if he say there is a shoot on then ask him if you can go as soon as the shooting is over , you will get a few set backs but you have everything to gain and nothing to lose .

    With the holidays looming up now would be a very good time to get out there .

    GOOD LUCK 

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    Anyone asking for free shooting on the internet is simply lazy or tight.

    Shooting is relatively easy to get all year round. Join a syndicate (small to large) and many will allow shooting all year round. 

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    It is indeed remarkable that the very first post from some new members is a request for pigeon shooting. 

    Edited by JDog

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    I've knocked a few doors with no joy yet but reading this add makes me feel the need to get off my **** more especially this weather. I have fell lucky with a friend who has permission and takes me along otherwise I think without him and this forum i would lose all hope. Cheers all 😀

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    By far the best way is to earn your permission by either joining a small syndicate and putting your back into feeding, buidling fences whatever, never say no.  That will give you a good reputation and some vermin shooting should materialise...often after that if your a good safe sensible shot, the word will get around that you can do the job, as most farmers want a 'job' done.  Almost all of my areas have come by reputation, word of mouth from friends when a problem occurs.  It ain't easy to get a foot in and peronally I think just turning up in a farmyard asking about some free shooting is not going to work. I worked for a short time as an animal feed stuff salesman and believe me I knew how farmers tick having been born into a farming family but approaching a farmer when he's just found the pipework on his telehandler has blown spraying fluid everywhere when he has 200 cattle to feed is not a good idea.

    Those who have permision to shoot are very wary about taking an unknown onto their ground as it has happened where they find that said person on the ground uninvited, by them at least.

    Been there got the stab marks beteen the shoulder blades.

    Edited by Walker570

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    13 minutes ago, JDog said:

    It is indeed remarkable that the very first post from new members is a request for pigeon shooting. 

    I accept we all have to start somewhere and when we started P W was unheard of , in fact the only technology we had was a land line telephone .

    Despite what we are often told about the lack of pigeon shooting available , people like yourself are a perfect example to contradict that statement , after you moved you more or less had to start seeking out land from scratch again , if I can remember rightly , it didn't take you to long to find the first place to shoot over , as we know the first perm is the hardest and if keen enough ( which you are ) other land quickly follow suit and before you know it you have got quite a sizable  amount of land to shoot over .

     

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    Indeed MM. When I moved up here from the Cotswolds I had no land and knew no one. Right from the start I made a determined effort to obtain enough permissions to keep my interest in pigeon shooting piqued. There have been some refusals along the way but generally I have been lucky. It helps greatly that I am very ugly.

    Only last week Clodhopper and I were refused on what looked like a dead cert field. We dusted ourselves off, went to a new permission of his and shot 50 on a flight line.

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    13 hours ago, marsh man said:

    Reading on the wanted section of the forum I often see new members asking for permission for various types of shooting with pigeon shooting seem to be the most wanted .

    Not to disappoint or dishearten those members who are asking, but very few members on the forum would be in the position to give other people the go ahead to go shooting on some bodies elses land , alright, maybe taking them out the odd day as a guest, or if they are very lucky there might be the odd land owner in there area who are looking for somebody to do there vermin control, but I wouldn't rely on that long shot ( excuse the pun ) as mentioned already 100s of times on the forum , you need to start knocking on a few doors .

    For those looking for Pigeon shooting this is a very good time of the year to start looking , the main crop would be rape , the Pigeons are now starting to build up in some noticeable flocks which the land owner will be aware of and a lot Pigeon shooters of a certain age are not to keen to sit it out in the cold wintry conditions ( me included ), this can be at your advantage at they still can cause damage and still need controlling .

    Luckily I don't no longer want any more ground to shoot over , but if I did I would be out finding where the flocks are building up and seek out the owners , around our way there would be a good chance the land is part of the game shoot , this wouldn't put me off as it only last for a few more weeks and the last shoot might be well away from the rape that is being damaged by pigeons , the farmer cant afford to let it get eaten off for the sake of scaring a few game birds if it is well away from the main drives .

    If you knock on his door , tell him where you seen the pigeons , and is it possible to have a go , either the next day , or within the next few days , if he say there is a shoot on then ask him if you can go as soon as the shooting is over , you will get a few set backs but you have everything to gain and nothing to lose .

    With the holidays looming up now would be a very good time to get out there .

    GOOD LUCK 

    A timely piece of advice MM.     I hear people moaning all the time they can't get any shooting, when questioned I generally find they look blank when asked how many farmers they have approached. I know getting started is difficult but some people need to get off their a****.

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    13 hours ago, JDog said:

    Indeed MM. When I moved up here from the Cotswolds I had no land and knew no one. Right from the start I made a determined effort to obtain enough permissions to keep my interest in pigeon shooting piqued. There have been some refusals along the way but generally I have been lucky. It helps greatly that I am very ugly.

    Only last week Clodhopper and I were refused on what looked like a dead cert field. We dusted ourselves off, went to a new permission of his and shot 50 on a flight line.

     

    1 hour ago, HIDENSEEK said:

    A timely piece of advice MM.     I hear people moaning all the time they can't get any shooting, when questioned I generally find they look blank when asked how many farmers they have approached. I know getting started is difficult but some people need to get off their a****.

    I dare say anyone who is dedicated and are going to be in it for the long haul will go the extra mile and seek out pigeon shooting , I don't think our area is to much different from any other agricultural area , in fact where I live I can only go inland as I have got the North sea just behind me .

    If I was still looking for some land to go on I would make a wild boast saying that , if I was out all day looking for Pigeon shooting I would be very disappointed and surprised if I came back home emptied handed , I know a few places that never get touched by shooters , and the odd place where the person only goes during the Summer months , when I first started to go on the estate where I go now the keeper would say he often got asked by a pigeon shooter if they could go on a certain field , these would be mainly beaters and local people , now he would say he very rarely get asked at all by anyone .

    So how many up and coming pigeon shooters do go out and knock on doors  ?

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    6 hours ago, marsh man said:

    I dare say anyone who is dedicated and are going to be in it for the long haul will go the extra mile and seek out pigeon shooting , I don't think our area is to much different from any other agricultural area , in fact where I live I can only go inland as I have got the North sea just behind me .

    If I was still looking for some land to go on I would make a wild boast saying that , if I was out all day looking for Pigeon shooting I would be very disappointed and surprised if I came back home emptied handed , I know a few places that never get touched by shooters , and the odd place where the person only goes during the Summer months , when I first started to go on the estate where I go now the keeper would say he often got asked by a pigeon shooter if they could go on a certain field , these would be mainly beaters and local people , now he would say he very rarely get asked at all by anyone .

    So how many up and coming pigeon shooters do go out and knock on doors  ?

    Not these days, but I used to. That's how you get to shoot on lots of land.

     

    It really helps when you can tell a Farmer you shoot on someone's land he already knows! Far better than references.:good:

    Edited by TIGHTCHOKE
    Syntax

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    This is something I put on another thread in March about getting permission since this post I have gained another 4 farms and now have more land and farms than I can cope with 

     

    Went out today to try and get some new permission trouble is a lot of the farms around me are owned by the dutchy of Lancaster and are rented farms, anyway I knocked on about 15 doors today and got lots of sorry cant help you but I did get one new permission of around 250 acres with a few nice woodland areas in it and the farmer was a very nice chap and very pleasant (for a change) as I must say some can be quite rude to say the least and you need broad shoulders sometimes just to ask.

    I also have 3 other farmers that were very busy but but have asked me to ring them back or go see them next week so its looking up for me but what I did do is offer my help for free on the farm so the farmer could get to know me before I get any sort of permission granted to walk around there land with a firearm I also offered my services with free mot tests on some of there vehicle and tyres etc and servicing at cost to me which did twitch a few ears as luckily I have my own garage and mot station.

    I think its only fair you offer something in return for the farmer allowing you on his land anyway if all goes to plan I could have another 3-4 farms to go at by the end of next week which would total about 1500 acres and some lovely land in with it

    So a little advise to people who have no permission get out there be polite dress smartly no camo gear in sight offer to help out before you wish to shoot take the knock backs in good faith and always be polite when refused always leave your number just in case and always keep smiling.

    Cheers

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    1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

     

     

    It really helps when you can tell a Farmer you shoot on someone's land he already knows! Far better than references.:good:

    I fully agree with your last statement , in the ideal world you want to build up an area with perms next door to each other, or at least very close to each other , you don't really want to go 15 / 20 miles one way and find it is blank and then come all the way back and go 15 / 20 miles the other way , if that is all you have got then at least that situation is better than nothing .

    One big area I had started with me hiring the marshland as a rough shoot , this alone would had been more than enough for most shooting folk , the area was around 400 acres that had a big flight pond , half a mile of river frontage with reed beds and most of the fields growing crops that was surrounded by wood land , the pigeon shooting was first class which produced many three figure bags along with very good duck and goose shooting .

    At that time I was spending all my free shooting and I didn't want to shoot my rented ground out so I started to look for land on the uplands ,  the first farm secured was the farmer who I rented the marshes off , this was quickly followed by two or three farms near by , I then had farmers names who I could relate to other farms when I was doing the door knocking , all this time the amount of perms were getting bigger and started to touch each other , the area was like a big jig saw  puzzle that was over 50% complete and then every so often I added another piece . 

    I then had more than enough for myself and didn't really bother about the odd ones I didn't have , then I remember out of the Blue I got a phone call from a farmer who had a small farm that had a few fields of wheat on his marsh land that were getting hit by pigeons on the laid bits , who said one of his farming friends said I was the boy to sort them out , as it turned out it wasn't one of the best but another one you could go on if numbers were hitting one of his fields .

    So after you have secured your first perm don't Rest On Your Laurels , get out there and get your second one and so on , the more land you have the bigger the chance you will have of shooting pigeons .

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    I fully agree with all of the above ,,,that its vital to offer a service ALL YEAR ROUND once the personal relationship with the farmers is established. One or two sensible and responsible individuals who will turn out as often as possible cannot help but be offered more shooting as neighbours see what you are doing and word gets about. This is why I would applaud individual efforts rather than a pigeon shooting club/syndicate which would appear to be a far more impersonal business with the potential for poor behaviour.

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    Another thing is at the weekend I popped around a few of my permissions and dropped off a 4 pack of beer at each one I know its not a lot but I had some texts back off the farmers saying it was great to meet me this year thanks for the xmas drink and that I am more than welcome to carry on shooting on their land well worth a fiver for each farm 

    Edited by shawn9914

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    59 minutes ago, Velocette said:

    I fully agree with all of the above ,,,that its vital to offer a service ALL YEAR ROUND once the personal relationship with the farmers is established. One or two sensible and responsible individuals who will turn out as often as possible cannot help but be offered more shooting as neighbours see what you are doing and word gets about. This is why I would applaud individual efforts rather than a pigeon shooting club/syndicate which would appear to be a far more impersonal business with the potential for poor behaviour.

    One thing I would like to add is when you have got your permission look after it , don't take anybody else until you build up your relationship , don't leave any rubbish and last but not least , don't wander around the farm with your gun and certainly don't shoot anything other than what you asked to shoot in the first place .

     

    1 hour ago, shawn9914 said:

    Another thing is at the weekend I popped around a few of my permissions and dropped off a 4 pack of beer at each one I know its not a lot but I had some texts back off the farmers saying it was great to meet me this year thanks for the xmas drink and that I am more than welcome to carry on shooting on their land well worth a fiver for each farm 

    A very good way to keep in touch by taking a little of something this time of the year , Good for you and have a good Christmas.

    Most of the farms I go on have been for a good number of years and I know the rules of the different farms I go on, if they are into game shooting I have a free hand from the last shoot of the season till they put the young game birds in the rearing pens , this work a treat and we always have a little yarn at Christmas when I drop a bottle off to see if there is any changes .

    On the estate is slightly different as we let guns go into the woods for four Saturdays in February so it's not fair if I am shooting on the rape beside a wood during the week and someone is going in the wood Saturday , so I leave the free hand till after the roost shooting is over .

     

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    I know that the advise is to get out and knock on doors but lets be honest some people have the gift of the gob and some do not. Some find it easy to approach strangers and some don't.  Most of my shooting has come from farmers chatting to their neighbor and then me being asked to shoot on the neighbours farm but I still feel uncomfortable knocking on doors. :hmm:

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    49 minutes ago, hambone said:

    I know that the advise is to get out and knock on doors but lets be honest some people have the gift of the gob and some do not. Some find it easy to approach strangers and some don't.  Most of my shooting has come from farmers chatting to their neighbor and then me being asked to shoot on the neighbours farm but I still feel uncomfortable knocking on doors. 

    I must admit to being a bit nervous when asking for permission to shoot a new piece of ground, especially if I really want it. I normally rehearse what I want to say beforehand.

     

    I shot with someone for a while who complained that he didn't have enough land to shoot. I never heard him say he had been out asking. I am certain that I could have gained significant permission where he shot if I was so inclined. If you don't ask, you don't get!

    Edited by motty

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    2 minutes ago, motty said:

    I must admit to being a bit nervous when asking for permission to shoot a new piece of ground, especially if I really want it. I normally rehearse want I want to say beforehand.

     

    I shot with someone for a while who complained that he didn't have enough land to shoot. I never heard him say he had been out asking. I am certain that I could have gained significant permission where he shot if I was so inclined. If you don't ask, you don't get!

    I don't disagree (it's how I got the original permissions) merely pointing out that some find it easier to knock on doors than others. If you are starting out or have no permission then it's what you need to do though. :good:

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    5 minutes ago, hambone said:

    I don't disagree (it's how I got the original permissions) merely pointing out that some find it easier to knock on doors than others. If you are starting out or have no permission then it's what you need to do though. :good:

    I dare say it is a bit intimidating to knock on a complete strangers door to ask to go shooting on his land , as some farmers can be a bit secretive and suspicious of strangers as most of them live in isolated areas .

    I would never ask to go shooting without seeing the pigeons on the crop in the first place , that is why I said in my first post that this is a good time of the year now pigeons have started to build up on the rape , another thing that could go in your favour is gas guns going off without clearing the fields of pigeons , gas cost money and time and you would try and keep them off for nothing .

    How sick would you be if you had been watching the field for a week with pigeons coming from every direction and a chap who had only seen them the day before went and knocked on the door and was told to go as often as you like , and believe me it do happen , maybe I am thick skinned but when I knocked on the doors I thought the worse that could happen was the farmer saying no , that I could put up with , so I had everything to gain and nothing to lose .   

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    44 minutes ago, marsh man said:

    I dare say it is a bit intimidating to knock on a complete strangers door to ask to go shooting on his land , as some farmers can be a bit secretive and suspicious of strangers as most of them live in isolated areas .

    I would never ask to go shooting without seeing the pigeons on the crop in the first place , that is why I said in my first post that this is a good time of the year now pigeons have started to build up on the rape , another thing that could go in your favour is gas guns going off without clearing the fields of pigeons , gas cost money and time and you would try and keep them off for nothing .

    How sick would you be if you had been watching the field for a week with pigeons coming from every direction and a chap who had only seen them the day before went and knocked on the door and was told to go as often as you like , and believe me it do happen , maybe I am thick skinned but when I knocked on the doors I thought the worse that could happen was the farmer saying no , that I could put up with , so I had everything to gain and nothing to lose .   

    and that sums it up right there

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    6 hours ago, hambone said:

    I don't disagree (it's how I got the original permissions) merely pointing out that some find it easier to knock on doors than others. If you are starting out or have no permission then it's what you need to do though. :good:

     

    6 hours ago, marsh man said:

    I dare say it is a bit intimidating to knock on a complete strangers door to ask to go shooting on his land , as some farmers can be a bit secretive and suspicious of strangers as most of them live in isolated areas .

    I would never ask to go shooting without seeing the pigeons on the crop in the first place , that is why I said in my first post that this is a good time of the year now pigeons have started to build up on the rape , another thing that could go in your favour is gas guns going off without clearing the fields of pigeons , gas cost money and time and you would try and keep them off for nothing .

    How sick would you be if you had been watching the field for a week with pigeons coming from every direction and a chap who had only seen them the day before went and knocked on the door and was told to go as often as you like , and believe me it do happen , maybe I am thick skinned but when I knocked on the doors I thought the worse that could happen was the farmer saying no , that I could put up with , so I had everything to gain and nothing to lose .   

    The only better way I know was to be on the boundary of one permission on Boxing Day about 8 years ago. I shot a very high pigeon that dropped about 200 feet over the boundary and it just so happened the farmer was walking through his rape crop (unknown to me), heard the shot and saw the bird drop from on high. He retrieved it for me and whilst chatting I was asked to go and see him in the new year, we exchanged phone numbers on the spot and I gained 600 acres as easily as it was possible to do. His sister then married a Farmer from 15 miles away and I was already shooting his land.

    You do get refusals, but if you don't get out and meet these people you will not get any shooting.

     

    As an aside, I regularly take Mates out on other peoples ground, nice to be trusted. But it always amuses me that 50% of those I take out ask me for the farmers telephone number, they always get told that they are MY PERMISSIONS and they are welcome to join me, but if they attempt to poach them we will fall out.

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    I don't know if it's a cultural thing in the UK or just regional one but I wondered how you guys get on with getting 'written approval' to shoot or it's mainly just verbal.

    Obviously it's great to get written approval and there's a pre-written one on BASCs website that I've used but when I've asked for the farmer to sign he's happy for me too shoot on their land they can get a bit nervous like they are signing for a mortgage and it can put some off especially if they've just granted you permission and you pull out a pen and paper asking for a signature !!

    What has worked for me when I've got a permission is to shoot for a while and build up that relationship before asking to formalise it in writing.....

    What about you guys ?

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    I have some written and some verbal.

     

    Many years ago two of us parked in a gateway and intended to spend the lunch hour rough shooting a couple of fields.

    We happened to look back to the gateway and saw a policemen had followed us in to the field. We unloaded and walked towards him and I asked him "was there a problem?" He then asked "if we had the permission of the landowner?" I said "we did" and then he asked "who the farmer was", I told him to find out as I knew I was in the right.

    I wondered if he was after getting permission?

    He left the field, never contacted the Farmer and I can only presume he was bored and fancied sticking his nose in where it was not wanted!

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    29 minutes ago, prem1234 said:

    I don't know if it's a cultural thing in the UK or just regional one but I wondered how you guys get on with getting 'written approval' to shoot or it's mainly just verbal.

    Obviously it's great to get written approval and there's a pre-written one on BASCs website that I've used but when I've asked for the farmer to sign he's happy for me too shoot on their land they can get a bit nervous like they are signing for a mortgage and it can put some off especially if they've just granted you permission and you pull out a pen and paper asking for a signature !!

    What has worked for me when I've got a permission is to shoot for a while and build up that relationship before asking to formalise it in writing.....

    What about you guys ?

     Never bothered with formal contracts just word of mouth.

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