JohnfromUK Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Vince Green said: It should be inconceivable in this day that any fhistoric building could be destroyed by fire. For my sins I was for several years a (company appointed) Trustee of St Albans Cathederal. The endless risk assessments and incident forecasting was all consuming and to comply with all the draconian regulations was like having to jump through endless hoops laid out end on end. Basically, you couldn't even f -a-r-t let alone burn the place down. When I had restoration/building work on a listed building - there were as you say a real tough set of regulations (mainly imposed by the insurance company). I also had to carry a massive excess until works were completed. However - these (or at least some of them) were completely impractical - and could't be complied with ........ and so in effect I carried the risk myself. So called 'hot works' were most risky and we had to inspect at intervals after completion of daily work and have extinguishers in the area. Halogen and incandescent lamps were also forbidden. This was OK for me as I was living on the premises and have extinguishers and used LED flood lighting. What we couldn't do was "ensure all combustible materials within 1 metre of the work is removed". When soldering flashing, copper pipes etc., this is simply not practical in restoration work. I was very careful to inspect at frequent regular intervals afterwards, and we always had extinguishers/water to hand. If I recall correctly, the fire at Uppark was caused by hot works on a leaded roof or flashing and flared up some time after builders had left the area. Edited April 16, 2019 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 11 hours ago, ditchman said: this will affect Macron...he will get the backlash.........................france are notorious in under spending to look after their treasures....this has been going on for many years....some of the pics of stop gap repairs i have seen from friends of mine are horrific................ such a shame ....Paris is Notre Dame............ According to some news reports Macron is not suggesting that France will fund the rebuilding costs. He is launching an international fund raising appeal so the world can rebuild the cathedral together !!!!! So much for French pride and picking the pockets of international sadness at this loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, Bobba said: According to some news reports Macron is not suggesting that France will fund the rebuilding costs. He is launching an international fund raising appeal so the world can rebuild the cathedral together !!!!! So much for French pride and picking the pockets of international sadness at this loss. Don't worry he will get a grant from the EU, he's been doing them some favours lately over Brexit so it only right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 see cash is pouring in already......................wonder how much the vatican will cough up ?? 22 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Don't worry he will get a grant from the EU, he's been doing them some favours lately over Brexit so it only right if westminster abbey was burning down... the EU wold contribute 2 galls' of 4 star...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Why do these long term restoration projects not have sprinklers attached to the scaffolding? I imagine some rising mains clamped to the scaffold tubes, with rain guns at the top, would be fairly cheap and simple to arrange, and possibly more effective than pumping jets of water from fire engines at ground level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Bobba said: According to some news reports Macron is not suggesting that France will fund the rebuilding costs. He is launching an international fund raising appeal so the world can rebuild the cathedral together !!!!! So much for French pride and picking the pockets of international sadness at this loss. How could he ? Mr Austerity would have a few more fires to put out if he could find money for that, and not some of the social schemes he promised on his election trail (That never happened) 1 hour ago, ditchman said: see cash is pouring in already......................wonder how much the vatican will cough up ?? A token sum perhaps, they are tighter than a nuns.. More than enough money will be raised to cover the what ? 5 billion euros cost of putting it back together, jobs for he boys ect ..From French ex pats , Canadians, and ordinary French people at home or abroad. Lets face it, even if the French government said they would pay for it, its only coming from French tax payers isnt it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, McSpredder said: Why do these long term restoration projects not have sprinklers attached to the scaffolding? I think very often the fire takes hold and spreads in the void between the internal ceiling (stone vaultwork at Notre Dames) and the leaded roof - which is supported on timber frames and boards. It is these areas that allow the fire to spread so quickly (here and at Windsor). Sprinklers in those voids would be a good idea, but I guess would be frost prone? The problem with sprinklers in roofs is that you need a large header tank, or suitable constant mains pressure, unlikely at that height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Very sad. Seeing that spire fall is something I'll never forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol p Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 20 hours ago, stewartward said: Hope Quasimodo is alright!!! I hear theres a spare room in the Ecuadorian embassy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Me thinks TOTAL have made a clever move by donating a large sum to the restoration. (just saying like) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchers Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Terrible shame, I just love old churches and looking at the stained glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Allegedly, according to CNN the French have already collected equivalent of $700 million in voluntary donations. If that's true its a heck of a lot of money in less than 24 hours, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Allegedly, according to CNN the French have already collected equivalent of $700 million in voluntary donations. If that's true its a heck of a lot of money in less than 24 And not one penny from the Catholic Church funds. They are among the richest businesses in the world but part with very little. Edited April 16, 2019 by bostonmick Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Anyone know if they have insurance?? Although they'd probably say it was a act of god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_ox Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just seen the fund has now reached 1billion euros! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 16 hours ago, Old farrier said: Anyone know if they have insurance?? Although they'd probably say it was a act of god 😃 The same thought had occurred to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 On 16/04/2019 at 08:51, ditchman said: see cash is pouring in already......................wonder how much the vatican will cough up ?? if westminster abbey was burning down... the EU wold contribute 2 galls' of 4 star...... I would imagine that as the Notra Dame is THE icon of the Roman Catholic Church outside of Rome, then the Pope will take advantage of his traditional Easter Sunday address from the Vatican balconey to announce the donation from Rome. On the other hand............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, wymberley said: I would imagine that as the Notra Dame is THE icon of the Roman Catholic Church outside of Rome, then the Pope will take advantage of his traditional Easter Sunday address from the Vatican balconey to announce the donation from Rome. On the other hand............... the french state owns notre dame....not the catkolic church...........so it will be a few well chosen words............they need the cash to stay at the vatican for the pensions...and papal helicopters and stuff....and to pay the top lawyers for pedophile cases......... it was difficult to get the money out of the pope for the bloody crusades............so thats why it was a wheeze to flog off things like "Jesus's toenails"...or st francis,s finger....put them in a fancy box...bless it, flog them to the church...and then the church would charge 5 groats for a person to touch the box...another 2 groats for a prayer....and B&B with beer 10 groats...to all the pilgrims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, ditchman said: the french state owns notre dame....not the catkolic church...........so it will be a few well chosen words............they need the cash to stay at the vatican for the pensions...and papal helicopters and stuff....and to pay the top lawyers for pedophile cases......... it was difficult to get the money out of the pope for the bloody crusades............so thats why it was a wheeze to flog off things like "Jesus's toenails"...or st francis,s finger....put them in a fancy box...bless it, flog them to the church...and then the church would charge 5 groats for a person to touch the box...another 2 groats for a prayer....and B&B with beer 10 groats...to all the pilgrims The "french state", being the reason for "donation" and "on the other hand" translates into "a few well chosen words" which in turn translates into the offering up of a prayer which in this instance when one considers the magnitude of some of the donations already made, simply isn't going to cut the mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Jason_ox said: Just seen the fund has now reached 1billion euros! A billion euros, that could build a state of the art hospital to care and save people. Or it could rebuild a Cathedrel that really does nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 i rekon macron is breathing a sigh of relief................as it will take peoples eye off the ball and he can slip some legistration thro on the side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, ditchman said: i rekon macron is breathing a sigh of relief................as it will take peoples eye off the ball and he can slip some legistration thro on the side And a very diminished yellow vest riot this Saturday too 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Should be paid for by the church coffers not the public or begging for donations. They have billions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, figgy said: Should be paid for by the church coffers not the public or begging for donations. They have billions. The state own it, although they reduced drastically the funding for it a while back and there is a charity that campaigns for donations to it's upkeep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 The state should pay then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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