Jaymo Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 All this “why should I pay for someone else” is rather self defeatist, after all I’m probably paying for you right now with what I shell out in TAX/NI But do I bleat about it? Nope, I accept that it’s part and parcel and that as I’m earning those amounts then I can afford/should be paying it. Same with our membership to the club, we chuck in 13 bill and receive around 4 back- yes some need it more than others , just like the situation here in Blighty but you don’t go around saying “ oh he can have it but I don’t like her, so she can’t” At the end of the day, you have your opinion and I mine- you can post until the moo moo’s come home but your rants won’t change people’s opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Jaymo said: All this “why should I pay for someone else” is rather self defeatist, after all I’m probably paying for you right now with what I shell out in TAX/NI But do I bleat about it? Nope, I accept that it’s part and parcel and that as I’m earning those amounts then I can afford/should be paying it. Same with our membership to the club, we chuck in 13 bill and receive around 4 back- yes some need it more than others , just like the situation here in Blighty but you don’t go around saying “ oh he can have it but I don’t like her, so she can’t” At the end of the day, you have your opinion and I mine- you can post until the moo moo’s come home but your rants won’t change people’s opinions. Your right, you've your opinion and I have mine, both opinions mean nothing, but there was a referendum and over half, 17.4 million people agree with me and want to leave. If you want to give your money to Europeans then crack on, but don't tell others to. I'll also say this with 100% certainty, your not paying my tax, I pay plenty of my own. Who's ranting? Can't say I've seen anyone on this thread on a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Your right, you've your opinion and I have mine, both opinions mean nothing, but there was a referendum and over half, 17.4 million people agree with me and want to leave. If you want to give your money to Europeans then crack on, but don't tell others to. I'll also say this with 100% certainty, your not paying my tax, I pay plenty of my own. Who's ranting? Can't say I've seen anyone on this thread on a rant. Touchy. I don’t think I have said to anyone they have pay, but if your not paying Brussels, we will be paying some of the monies that are returned in Subsidies so still shelling out. Rants- well put it this way, how many thread topics are there on a weekly basis bashing the EU/Junckers/ Brexit/May or Jonny foreigner by the supposed ‘Democratic vote leave’ vocalists on here to those who voted Remain! Its been brought up in another unrelated thread that if someone dare to counter any argument put forward, the same people time and time again retort with snide comments- it’s so predictable that I’m sure even William Hill wouldn’t be accepting bets. Have you ever wondered why there are so few counter arguments with you over this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 On the question of tax payers, does the EU parliament still decamp from Brussels to Strasbourg each month? I know we paid for the trains which took the MEP's from one place to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Scully said: On the question of tax payers, does the EU parliament still decamp from Brussels to Strasbourg each month? I know we paid for the trains which took the MEP's from one place to the other. Actually, it's worse than that (from Wikipedia); The European Parliament has three places of work – Brussels (Belgium), the city of Luxembourg (Luxembourg) and Strasbourg (France). Luxembourg is home to the administrative offices (the "General Secretariat"). Meetings of the whole Parliament ("plenary sessions") take place in Strasbourg and in Brussels. Committee meetings are held in Brussels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Touchy. I don’t think I have said to anyone they have pay, but if your not paying Brussels, we will be paying some of the monies that are returned in Subsidies so still shelling out. Rants- well put it this way, how many thread topics are there on a weekly basis bashing the EU/Junckers/ Brexit/May or Jonny foreigner by the supposed ‘Democratic vote leave’ vocalists on here to those who voted Remain! Its been brought up in another unrelated thread that if someone dare to counter any argument put forward, the same people time and time again retort with snide comments- it’s so predictable that I’m sure even William Hill wouldn’t be accepting bets. Have you ever wondered why there are so few counter arguments with you over this subject? I'm not touchy at all, I've just responded to your questions and presumptions. If we come out, your right, we'll still be subsidising some of our own industries, but we won't be paying for continental roads, subsidising French farmers, giving away our fish to foreign fishermen, I could literally go on and on and on. As for rants, there probably are some on here, but not by me, which is what you implied. As for counter arguments, maybe there's so few because the biggest vote in our country's history has taken place and the vote was clear, we want out, how can anyone sensible argue with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 I'm an ardent Brexiteer but I've a great deal of sympathy for Jaymo's last couple of posts. I guess we all express ourselves differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, yod dropper said: I'm an ardent Brexiteer but I've a great deal of sympathy for Jaymo's last couple of posts. I guess we all express ourselves differently. Beleive it or not, I've huge amounts of sympathy for anyone who is going to take a personal hit from Brexit, which I would guess is the case reading some posts on here, I don't mind admitting that I may very well be one of them. There was always going to be winners and losers on an issue as big as this, unfortunately though, it would be unfair to the country to keep us in so the few can continue to benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? You totally miss the point, Obamma intervened before the referendum and tried to influence the result of a democratic refrerendum. Trump is just stating what everyone can see, she is not respecting that result in any shape or form. Edited July 14, 2018 by JRDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 10:50, Rewulf said: Are you talking about recently, or in the Wests colonial past ? If the former, no one is forcing them, and if their own countries are not treating the worker class correctly, its not something we can do a lot about besides voting with our feet (but more on that later) If the latter, then Im sorry, but my colonial past is restricted to the odd videogame, we really need to move on from the exploitation guilt syndrome. You talk about protectionism, but the EU has been very selective about what parts of it they 'protect' They certainly havnt protected our fishing industry, or steel making for example, consigning whole communities to the scrap heap. They dont 'protect' us from cheap Chinese goods, they slap a tariff on them, thus making themselves and governments money. Tariffs the Chinese manufacturers dont mind, because they still make good profits from us. You talk of product standards and protection of environmental standards, but again, it doesnt stop goods coming in from countries outside the EU, so either they adhere to the standards, or the EU ignores their own protocols, all this whilst goods come from countries whose environmental standards are shocking. Those of us who know anything about technology, know that most of the fancy tech gear we have comes from the far East, look around you right now, your computer, phone , tablet, kettle, microwave, TV , the electronics in your car, plastic goods, all the things you take for granted in your daily life, highly likely came from a factory in Taiwan ,China or Korea. So tell me again, how the EU 'protects' us from this ? Lastly, you talk about how the bigger the EU ,the better, get more countries on board, more countries, more protection right ? More POWER ! To who, you, me ? Not on your life, more power to Brussels, more votes from grateful poor countries, happy to tow the line whilst, at least in the early days, they receive ECB loans and 'grants' OUR money, making Brussels look like some benevolent father figure ? If it was all about trade power, it wouldnt be as bad, but its much more about political power, the power to tell those countries how to set up their own laws 'in line' with EU objectives, objectives often very detrimental to those countries traditions,economy and culture. But a smattering of hush money, fame and prestige in the right places, and a bust on the United states of Europe hall of fame can work wonders. Ill be honest ,I expected a far better answer from you oowee, I actually doubt your honesty in the one you gave. But if thats the way you see it ,fair enough. But I can guarantee you one thing, your dream of Europe is not theirs. You see a future of prosperity and mutual understanding. Their vision is totalitarian, no arguing with Brussels, a very limited version of democracy (or none at all) and complete erosion of national identity and culture. A quasi socialist 4 th reich. Brilliant observation! Let,s get rid of the stupid "guilt complex"! This is the 21st Century! I feel absolutely NO GUILT for whatever occurred over a century ago! Time to move on! Out of a nation of 63 MILLION people, 30,000 turned up to demonstrate against the visit of Donald Trump! (Yes, I am aware the BBC and the organisers claimed 45,000, but they got their figures from Diane Abbott!). When you see the close-ups of the frontline demonstrators, it,s the usual rent-a-mob, there at any demo, plus a mixture of strangely dressed, painted and tattooed weirdos! I wonder what percentage have a job, or for that matter, ever had a job where taxes are paid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Scully said: On the question of tax payers, does the EU parliament still decamp from Brussels to Strasbourg each month? I know we paid for the trains which took the MEP's from one place to the other. Geographically they are not that far apart ( just flown over them in fact) and if you like a comparison then Parliament is located as we know in London. MPs Travel on a daily basis from their Constituency- from as far a field as Scotland along with their ministerial support officers. Not looking to court controversy, but balancing out what are often one sided statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Geographically they are not that far apart ( just flown over them in fact) and if you like a comparison then Parliament is located as we know in London. MPs Travel on a daily basis from their Constituency- from as far a field as Scotland along with their ministerial support officers. Not looking to court controversy, but balancing out what are often one sided statements. More likely they stay in the houses, flats and apartments in London that we the taxpayers bought for em! The houses in their constituencies that the taxpayers also probably pay for, are for their occasional trips back at weekends and during recess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Geographically they are not that far apart ( just flown over them in fact) and if you like a comparison then Parliament is located as we know in London. MPs Travel on a daily basis from their Constituency- from as far a field as Scotland along with their ministerial support officers. Not looking to court controversy, but balancing out what are often one sided statements. That's fair enough, but as far as I know UK politicians don't pack all relevant gear into artic wagon loads of gear between the two each month, at tax payers expense, which I believe was (is ) the case with the Brussels/Strasbourg move. If it still happens of course; just something I read somewhere some time ago but can't be bothered to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, panoma1 said: More likely they stay in the houses, flats and apartments in London that we the taxpayers bought for em! The houses in their constituencies that the taxpayers also probably pay for, are for their occasional trips back at weekends and during recess! hello, yes its been going on for years, when the 2009 ( i think) expences scandel broke, a new word came out, MPs house flipping!!!!!! Edited July 14, 2018 by oldypigeonpopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html Scully. As far as I know, it is still going on, for the reasons stated in the article above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 15, 2018 Report Share Posted July 15, 2018 16 hours ago, Scully said: That's fair enough, but as far as I know UK politicians don't pack all relevant gear into artic wagon loads of gear between the two each month, at tax payers expense, which I believe was (is ) the case with the Brussels/Strasbourg move. If it still happens of course; just something I read somewhere some time ago but can't be bothered to verify. Yes it still goes on and last time I checked costs somewhere in the region of 150 million a year, can't remember if that's in euros or sterling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 15, 2018 Report Share Posted July 15, 2018 11 hours ago, chrisv said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html Scully. As far as I know, it is still going on, for the reasons stated in the article above. Thankyou. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Some Tory is saying we need a second referendum as asking the British people is the only way forward. If only we had thought of that 2 years ago. If we did have one (and I really believe it would be the same result) we would be back exactly where we are now with a staunch remainer trying to negotiate us leaving. I said to my mrs last week that May would be out of a job by the end of last week. Hopefully this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, walshie said: I said to my mrs last week that May would be out of a job by the end of last week. Hopefully this week. I don't disagree, but who would replace her? Therein lies (for me anyway) the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I don't disagree, but who would replace her? Therein lies (for me anyway) the problem. A Brexiteer rather than a dedicated remainer would be a start. Someone with a spine would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, walshie said: I said to my mrs last week that May would be out of a job by the end of last week. Hopefully this week. +1 8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I don't disagree, but who would replace her? Therein lies (for me anyway) the problem. Yes it is . I think shes got to go, I think she wants to go . But even if it goes to the no confidence vote, are the tories , who are /were 3/4 remain, going to vote up a Brexiteer ? This, could well be down to the EU, despite murmurings, they still havnt put a solid position forward on Mays proposal. If this amounts to a rejection, then we may be talking about getting someone at the helm whos serious about leaving. And this is the problem, the EU knows this. They know if they reject this proposal, or want it altering too much to their benefit, thereby diluting Brexit still further, then no deal becomes a virtual certainty. Heres hoping hey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Having May in charge of negotiating Brexit is like putting me in charge of the next vegetarian dinner party. It's always going to have at least bacon in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Why would she really worry about dropping the poisoned chalice, prime minister's pension and perks for life, sadly like most politicos they seem to hang on to cause as much damage to the country as possible before going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) On 09/07/2018 at 20:59, Good shot? said: The PM is looking for a deal that Brussels will accept.She has obviously took her eye off the ball, she should be looking for a deal that the electorate voted for and failing that walk away. Nigel Farage is saying the same thing currently. I totally agree with him, again and only wish he was in the Tory party as he is the only one I would wish to negotiate on our behalf. We should walk away and have the EU come to us looking to trade with us, but on our terms. Edited July 16, 2018 by Good shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 46 minutes ago, Good shot? said: Nigel Farage is saying the same thing currently. I totally agree with him, again and only wish he was in the Tory party as he is the only one I would wish to negotiate on our behalf. We should walk away and have the EU come to us looking to trade with us, but on our terms. Jacob Rees Mogg, think of a well spoken Farage! He'd be ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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