Brexit - merged threads

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

It would be interesting to do the same kind of analysis on a pro-EU paper as I'm sure they are at least equally slanted and based on false underlying data.

Yes, it would. I've always been of the opinion that there is an undeniable truth in the phrase, that when in conflict, the first casualty is the truth, and I've always said that I don't care how well someone fights in opposition, as long as they do it with honesty. I've always maintained that once you fabricate to prove a point then you've lost the cause and the truth will out in the end and show you up for what you are. 

[Jaymo]

Is this what you boys wish for? Now you can have harmony with everyone in the UK , very noble of you 🙂

 

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Scully said:

Yes, it would. I've always been of the opinion that there is an undeniable truth in the phrase, that when in conflict, the first casualty is the truth, and I've always said that I don't care how well someone fights in opposition, as long as they do it with honesty. I've always maintained that once you fabricate to prove a point then you've lost the cause and the truth will out in the end and show you up for what you are. 

Wholeheartedly agree!

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So does the EU protect workers rights or not ?
The answer is quite simple, it protects 'EU' migrant workers rights, the rights to go to a more prosperous country and take low paid jobs, drive down wages, and create a housing shortage that has driven rents up, along with a shortage of cash for the NHS and record classroom sizes.
But its all OK as long as we respect free movement, and workers rights, just as long as theyre not British.
And be damned with your social cohesion, the 4 freedoms are far more important !

Its funny that you rubbish Carneys words on this, then use him as 'evidence' at times when it suits you.
Is it rumour or heresay ?   It wasnt your mates brothers sister that said it, it was the governor of the BOE BEFORE he signed up to the remain campaign.
But then you say , Without an influx of foreign workers what would have happened? Probably more automation less jobs not necessarily higher pay. If wages did rise the associated inflationary pressure may have negated the rise.
Is that not assumption, rumour or heresay ?

Yes it does protect workers rights. It also provides a level of protection for workers that often individual governments would like to avoid. That is all workers. Migrant workers keep the NHS going. Migrants are net finacial contributors. Social cohesion is a matter for the UK government which has been ignored. 

I am not rubbishing Mark Carney's words I agree with them. Rumour and hearsay no. My statement is clearly a suggestion of probability (note the word probably) unlike the article which try's to pass off rumour as evidence of truth. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Have you been to Greece? 

Many times.

Dont tell me you got a feel for the country by having cocktails in a trendy Island harbour , get yourself to the mainland and see the dejection.

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Recessions come and go.

Oh thats alright then, bring em on 😆

Ask yourself what causes them.

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

France faces huge social change that it's population does not want to own up to.

France is facing being governed by a man it despises, it doesnt need to own up to anything, the population seek change, because they are not happy with their lot.
What is your answer, 'Let them eat cake ?'

 

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

The EU makes it easier to hold these changes at bay. 

Change is what is needed, surely thats not hard to see ?

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Migrants are net finacial contributors.

Show me the figures, or is that just heresay and rumour  ?

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Yes it does protect workers rights. It also provides a level of protection for workers that often individual governments would like to avoid. That is all workers. Migrant workers keep the NHS going. Migrants are net finacial contributors. Social cohesion is a matter for the UK government which has been ignored. 

But it clearly doesnt !!

When you can be given  contractless employment , sacked without warning , and kept at subsistence levels or less, how is that protecting your 'rights'
There are plenty of people working in this country, who can only afford to live in tents, where is the the EU fighting their corner ?

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Many times.

Dont tell me you got a feel for the country by having cocktails in a trendy Island harbour , get yourself to the mainland and see the dejection.

Oh thats alright then, bring em on 😆

Ask yourself what causes them.

France is facing being governed by a man it despises, it doesnt need to own up to anything, the population seek change, because they are not happy with their lot.
What is your answer, 'Let them eat cake ?'

 

Change is what is needed, surely thats not hard to see ?

Recessions are inevitable given the way that they  are measured and that we measure GDP. To be sustainable at some point we must enter a period of constant recession. 

France has a social security and lifestyle budget that it cannot pay. Of course it's population do not want it. Same is true with the pension crisis in Germany. All of it symptomatic of unpaid bills living on borrowed time. 

Change is needed at a country level at at a European level. The biggest change is to realise that the world has changed and we are falling behind. All great powers come and go. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Change is needed at a country level at at a European level

The EU doesnt do change, surely thats become apparent, unless its their wages of course, or more integration, more laws, more cost.

You know , all those things that have turned it into the monster its become.

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

All great powers come and go. 

Youre not wrong there, and the EUs time has come, to go.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

The EU doesnt do change, surely thats become apparent, unless its their wages of course, or more integration, more laws, more cost.

You know , all those things that have turned it into the monster its become.

Youre not wrong there, and the EUs time has come, to go.

If we did not have the EU we would invent it. Hopefully it would be better second time around. It will have to change or collapse and reform. Maybe Brexit and the new members will be the catalyst for change. Another driver is the need for much greater (centralist) budgetary control around the Euro. 

[Rewulf]

The US has a terrible history of recession !

The EU , err not so good .

The UK.

China

[Dekers]

200 pages and nearly 5000 posts, and still a few weeks to go!

[ditchman]

just plastered all over the "Breaking news".....BMW are going to stop making Mini at Cowley because of Brexit..............

 

'scuse me but wasnt it reported 2 years ago that BMW were going to stop making the Mini anyway.........................so why are they now saying they are stopping cause of Brexit...........this is total misinformation and working to their own agenda...........

anyway what i can glean of the so called new mini, is it is vastley overpriced ...expensive to mend and not that reliable........nuthin to do with brexit.......................christ they will be blaming global warming and aids and.death.and willy rot on brexit next..........

[Vince Green]

2 minutes ago, ditchman said:

just plastered all over the "Breaking news".....BMW are going to stop making Mini at Cowley because of Brexit..............

 

'scuse me but wasnt it reported 2 years ago that BMW were going to stop making the Mini anyway.........................so why are they now saying they are stopping cause of Brexit...........this is total misinformation and working to their own agenda...........

anyway what i can glean of the so called new mini, is it is vastley overpriced ...expensive to mend and not that reliable........nuthin to do with brexit.......................christ they will be blaming global warming and aids and.death.and willy rot on brexit next..........

That's exactly right, like global warming gets blamed for everything, snow, hot weather, a hurricane, mass migration etc so Brexit will be blamed for every silly little thing that happens ever more  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

PROJECT FEAR No 4 or 5 or 6 or.............

[Dekers]

The one sided reporting of Brexit issues is ridiculous....

Watching the BBC end of last week and they said, our medical card will not work, we will need an International driving licence, paperwork will increase dramatically to travel to the EU, etc etc…… they completely forgot to mention if the EU imposes these issues on us (circa 60 million people) then all we do is reciprocate with the circa 300million in the EU....so who do you think is worse off?!"

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, Dekers said:

still a few weeks to go!

Not really - it goes through to December 2020 - because after 29th March (assuming there is no delay), the real negotiations begin.  These are just a 'warm up'  for transition period (which only lasts until December 2020 unless someone kicks in the backstop).  Posturing and preening.  Once this is agreed, the actual post leaving trade deal is then to be negotiated - and that is when things will get difficult because that is the terms under which we trade after we actually leave the EU.  Until December 2020, we are (under the transition deal) still tied in fairly tightly.

The whole fiasco starts again, with 'no deal, WTO rules apply' as the bottom line if no deal can be negotiated.  Since the French have already stated that they will be demanding rights to continue fishing in British waters (as an example), the present situation is just a stroll in the park compared to what may come.

[Dekers]

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Not really - it goes through to December 2020 - because after 29th March (assuming there is no delay), the real negotiations begin.  These are just a 'warm up'  for transition period (which only lasts until December 2020 unless someone kicks in the backstop).  Posturing and preening.  Once this is agreed, the actual post leaving trade deal is then to be negotiated - and that is when things will get difficult because that is the terms under which we trade after we actually leave the EU.  Until December 2020, we are (under the transition deal) still tied in fairly tightly.

The whole fiasco starts again, with 'no deal, WTO rules apply' as the bottom line if no deal can be negotiated.  Since the French have already stated that they will be demanding rights to continue fishing in British waters (as an example), the present situation is just a stroll in the park compared to what may come.

Macron has also said the EU needs to learn from Brexit!

We are gone on 29th...I HOPE!

Edited March 5, 2019 by Dekers

[panoma1]

17 minutes ago, ditchman said:

just plastered all over the "Breaking news".....BMW are going to stop making Mini at Cowley because of Brexit..............

 

'scuse me but wasnt it reported 2 years ago that BMW were going to stop making the Mini anyway.........................so why are they now saying they are stopping cause of Brexit...........this is total misinformation and working to their own agenda...........

anyway what i can glean of the so called new mini, is it is vastley overpriced ...expensive to mend and not that reliable........nuthin to do with brexit.......................christ they will be blaming global warming and aids and.death.and willy rot on brexit next..........

Solidarity with other German car manufacturers? Who are likely to lose out if the EU don't reasonably facilitate the UK's exit!

[oowee]

Different news on the BBC. 

[Rewulf]

This is funny.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/05/david-miliband-foreign-secretary-eu-referendum-brexit-may

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'

David Miliband

Um , lets dissect this.
First off, you were foreign secretary 10 years ago, under a labour government, until your brother booted you in the nuts, and you went off crying to America.

On 12 May, flanked by 15 supportive members of the parliamentary party, Miliband announced from outside the House of Commons that he would stand in the resulting leadership election.^[61] On 10 June 2010, Barry Sheerman, Huddersfield MP, nominated Miliband for the Labour Party leadership post with Mr. Sheerman's daughter, Madlin Sadler, as Miliband's Campaign Co-ordinator. Madlin Sadler had served under Miliband previously as Special Advisor.^[62]

The other contenders for the leadership were Ed Balls, Andy Burnham, Diane Abbott and David's brother Ed Miliband, with David Miliband gaining the most nominations. The result of the contest was announced on 25 September 2010, the day before the start of the 2010 Labour Party Conference in Manchester. While David Miliband led the share of the electoral college votes in the first three rounds, he lost in the final round (50.65% to 49.35%) to his brother Ed. He announced on 29 September 2010 that he would be quitting frontline politics and would not be a part of his brother Ed's shadow cabinet.^[63]

Retirement from politics[edit]

Miliband resigned from the shadow cabinet in October 2010, but continued to serve as the MP for South Shields. He also taught A-Level Government and Politics on a voluntary basis at Haverstock School.^[64] In 2011, he became Senior Global Advisor for Oxford Analytica.^[65]

^{Ooh , Oxford Analytica, that well known , totally independent think tank that regularly tells us how bad Brexits going to be, often down to the penny 🤣}

But its not all bad.

Business interests[edit]

On 21 December 2010, the Office of David Miliband Limited was formed with Miliband and his wife Louise as directors.^[78]

According to the Financial Times, "much of Mr Miliband’s time has been spent on his lucrative directorships and speaking roles, which he would be expected to give up if he returned to frontline politics…as of January 2013, David Miliband has made just short of £1m on top of his MP’s salary since he failed to win the Labour leadership in the summer of 2010."^[79]

According to a March 2013 article in the Huffington Post UK, Miliband has earned almost £1m since the 2010 election. The article listed sources of income from speaking (where he has earned up to £20,000 per event), advisory and teaching roles, journalism, gifts, hospitality and overseas visits.^[80]

David Miliband is one of six members of the Global Advisory Board of Macro Advisory Partners, which advises multinational corporations, sovereign wealth funds, investors and governments.^[81]

In January 2012, David Miliband joined the Board of Directors of Mauritius-based private equity group, Indus Basin Holdings.^[82] IBH operates Rice Partners ^[83] in the Punjab region of Pakistan which specialises in managing the end-to-end supply chain for major global users of rice.^[84][85]

According to the Financial Times,^[79] "Mr Miliband’s jobs include advisory roles with VantagePoint Capital Partners, a Californian group; Oxford Analytica, a UK advisory company; and Indus Basin Holdings, a Pakistani agrochemical group. He is also a member of the advisory board to the Sir Bani Yas academic forum, which is hosted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Arab Emirates. Despite supporting Arsenal, Mr Miliband is vice-chairman and a non-executive director of Sunderland. As a speaker he commands a fee of up to £20,000."

Miliband is also on the Advisory Board of VantagePoint Capital Partners.^[86]

David Miliband is a member of the Trilateral Commission, founded and chaired by David Rockefeller.^[87]

^{The trilateral Commission is a Globalist organisation with fingers in many pies, not least an intense desire to see a one world government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission}

 

^{Back to his Brexit epiphany.}

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'
 
I know hes been away for a while , but he does realise weve already had one ?
What he means is, another one, now being called  'the final say vote' so it doesnt sound like 'vote again till you get the right result vote' 😆

 

'The Brexit debate is coming to a head at a moment when Britain’s political parties seem to be coming apart. Maybe that is not surprising. The 2016 referendum usurped the role of parliament and MPs. And both Labour and Conservative parties are being pulled by the far right and far left. The mess of Brexit is the result. Millions of voters are left feeling not only frustrated but homeless, with unprecedented strain on the stability and legitimacy of the two-party system.'

HILARIOUS !
So the vote was invalid because they actually gave a proportional majority vote to the people? How very err democratic globalist.
And 'millions' of voters are frustrated ?
You got that right you utter imbecile, 17.4 million of them.
Go back where you came from man, and take Bliar with you, your opinion and attempts to meddle are embarrassing and unwelcome.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

This is funny.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/05/david-miliband-foreign-secretary-eu-referendum-brexit-may

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'

David Miliband

Um , lets dissect this.
First off, you were foreign secretary 10 years ago, under a labour government, until your brother booted you in the nuts, and you went off crying to America.

On 12 May, flanked by 15 supportive members of the parliamentary party, Miliband announced from outside the House of Commons that he would stand in the resulting leadership election.^[61] On 10 June 2010, Barry Sheerman, Huddersfield MP, nominated Miliband for the Labour Party leadership post with Mr. Sheerman's daughter, Madlin Sadler, as Miliband's Campaign Co-ordinator. Madlin Sadler had served under Miliband previously as Special Advisor.^[62]

The other contenders for the leadership were Ed Balls, Andy Burnham, Diane Abbott and David's brother Ed Miliband, with David Miliband gaining the most nominations. The result of the contest was announced on 25 September 2010, the day before the start of the 2010 Labour Party Conference in Manchester. While David Miliband led the share of the electoral college votes in the first three rounds, he lost in the final round (50.65% to 49.35%) to his brother Ed. He announced on 29 September 2010 that he would be quitting frontline politics and would not be a part of his brother Ed's shadow cabinet.^[63]

Retirement from politics[edit]

Miliband resigned from the shadow cabinet in October 2010, but continued to serve as the MP for South Shields. He also taught A-Level Government and Politics on a voluntary basis at Haverstock School.^[64] In 2011, he became Senior Global Advisor for Oxford Analytica.^[65]

^{Ooh , Oxford Analytica, that well known , totally independent think tank that regularly tells us how bad Brexits going to be, often down to the penny 🤣}

But its not all bad.

Business interests[edit]

On 21 December 2010, the Office of David Miliband Limited was formed with Miliband and his wife Louise as directors.^[78]

According to the Financial Times, "much of Mr Miliband’s time has been spent on his lucrative directorships and speaking roles, which he would be expected to give up if he returned to frontline politics…as of January 2013, David Miliband has made just short of £1m on top of his MP’s salary since he failed to win the Labour leadership in the summer of 2010."^[79]

According to a March 2013 article in the Huffington Post UK, Miliband has earned almost £1m since the 2010 election. The article listed sources of income from speaking (where he has earned up to £20,000 per event), advisory and teaching roles, journalism, gifts, hospitality and overseas visits.^[80]

David Miliband is one of six members of the Global Advisory Board of Macro Advisory Partners, which advises multinational corporations, sovereign wealth funds, investors and governments.^[81]

In January 2012, David Miliband joined the Board of Directors of Mauritius-based private equity group, Indus Basin Holdings.^[82] IBH operates Rice Partners ^[83] in the Punjab region of Pakistan which specialises in managing the end-to-end supply chain for major global users of rice.^[84][85]

According to the Financial Times,^[79] "Mr Miliband’s jobs include advisory roles with VantagePoint Capital Partners, a Californian group; Oxford Analytica, a UK advisory company; and Indus Basin Holdings, a Pakistani agrochemical group. He is also a member of the advisory board to the Sir Bani Yas academic forum, which is hosted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Arab Emirates. Despite supporting Arsenal, Mr Miliband is vice-chairman and a non-executive director of Sunderland. As a speaker he commands a fee of up to £20,000."

Miliband is also on the Advisory Board of VantagePoint Capital Partners.^[86]

David Miliband is a member of the Trilateral Commission, founded and chaired by David Rockefeller.^[87]

^{The trilateral Commission is a Globalist organisation with fingers in many pies, not least an intense desire to see a one world government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission}

 

^{Back to his Brexit epiphany.}

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'
 
I know hes been away for a while , but he does realise weve already had one ?
What he means is, another one, now being called  'the final say vote' so it doesnt sound like 'vote again till you get the right result vote' 😆

 

'The Brexit debate is coming to a head at a moment when Britain’s political parties seem to be coming apart. Maybe that is not surprising. The 2016 referendum usurped the role of parliament and MPs. And both Labour and Conservative parties are being pulled by the far right and far left. The mess of Brexit is the result. Millions of voters are left feeling not only frustrated but homeless, with unprecedented strain on the stability and legitimacy of the two-party system.'

HILARIOUS !
So the vote was invalid because they actually gave a proportional majority vote to the people? How very err democratic globalist.
And 'millions' of voters are frustrated ?
You got that right you utter imbecile, 17.4 million of them.
Go back where you came from man, and take Bliar with you, your opinion and attempts to meddle are embarrassing and unwelcome.

Like I said....scum.

[pinfireman]

The boss of the BDI – Germany’s equivalent of the CBI – has attacked a possible Brexit extension, saying that a no deal in March would be preferable to more uncertainty which simply led to no deal anyway several months down the line. Dieter Kemp asked the obvious question of “what will change in three to four weeks?” if there is simply an extension for its own sake…

Kemp, who represents 100,000 companies, added that German companies were prepared for a no deal in March not May, saying that “the economy can live better with bad conditions than with uncertainty”. In logistical terms Kemp is probably right, but he is putting a bit of a brave face on it given Germany’s deepening manufacturing slump…

Indeed, just this morning the Bank of England said that the UK financial system was prepared for no deal, but the EU was at risk due to Brussels’ “lack of action”. Yet kamikaze Cabinet ministers are still determined to hand all the cards over to the EU by taking no deal off the table…

Source:  Guido Fawkes  www.order-order

 

 

Despite the numerous fears put about at the time of the UK announcing it was withdrawing from Euratom, the UK’s nuclear sector is now entirely no deal ready. The Nuclear Industry Association has emailed all of its members with a March update confirming that all the agreements are now in place to keep the industry running smoothly in the event of no deal:

“BEIS in its most recent update on Euratom have confirmed the final international agreement with Japan is now in place, which means the UK now has all the international agreements required to ensure that civil nuclear trade with our key international partners can continue following withdrawal from Euratom.

“The accountancy and monitoring system for a domestic safeguards regime is now up and running in parallel with the Euratom system, and safeguard regulations have now been approved by Parliament.

“This means the core part of the industry’s day to day business, would be unhindered in the event of a no deal Brexit.”

It’s no deal fears going up in smoke, not the UK’s nuclear power plants

SOURCE  GUIDO FAWKES   www.order-order

Edited March 5, 2019 by pinfireman

[old man]

7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Agreed and we knew it was hopeless before the referendum was held which was part, and only part, of the thought process that led myself, and I suspect many others, to vote remain.

Nobody knows in real terms what is the better option, only one scenario is going to play out and we'll have no real way of knowing if it's better or worse than what would have happened if we took an alternative path. But I believe a no deal scenario could be more damaging to the UK than staying in and letting (assisting) the EU fall apart around us but as I've said before the TM deal looks like the worst of all three of these potential scenarios. If we are in with a say then I believe our currency and Schengen situation protects us much more than it does the other countries.

I agree it's on borrowed time.

Pray tell, if forced to stay under DisMay's deal whereby we pay but have no say, how can we assist ii's demise?

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, old man said:

Pray tell, if forced to stay under DisMay's deal whereby we pay but have no say, how can we assist ii's demise?

That was precisely my point, we can't.

[pinfireman]

2 minutes ago, old man said:

Pray tell, if forced to stay under DisMay's deal whereby we pay but have no say, how can we assist ii's demise?

The same way we forced a referendum! By voters leaving the traditional parties, and voting for a one issue party of protest! No point in voting for the dumbos who let you down.....