Brexit - merged threads

[pinfireman]

9 hours ago, PhilR said:

Here's another article from Betsy Mackay.

I'm re-sharing this from Betsy MacKay, who has researched the inner workings of the EU for her Masters Degree. First shared before the referendum. This is a superb piece about the EU, which everyone should read.
" I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis.
Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late.
Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late.
We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you. They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did!
But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever.
Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt.
I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come.
The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.
So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)
The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.
The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the New World Order by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe.
Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.
The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.
The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),
Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.
And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more.
What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?
No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP."
This is what your government has been up to for 40 years. Creating wealth and power for them at the expense of the 'slavery' and poverty they have created for us. Theresa May is still doing it by keeping us in deliberately, when we do not need to be.

Just confirms what we always suspected!

9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I wouldn't suggest it is a work of fiction, it is a well written and interesting article. I cited that from looking into one aspect of data cited in the piece, it can be seen that the source is a UKIP funded or at least sponsored publication and that publication itself refers to the Daily Mail as a significant source of data. So at least one aspect of the paper is built on very flaky foundations. 

Could have been worse, could have been the Guardian!

9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

A lot of undesirable comments have been made from all sides but we are where we are and we are undeniably all in this together.

My preferred path avoids the TM deal which could well see us getting royally screwed in the process of the demise of the EU with us effectively a vassalage sub-servant state of the EU who use us as their whipping boy as they go through their death throes...

In other words, Remain?

[pinfireman]

9 hours ago, Retsdon said:

To compensate for a declining birthrate. But the overall population hasn't increased hardly at all. Compare that to America'.

The EU isn't going to go through any death throes. Look how Greece stayed in, despite the trauma. Nobody would dispute that the EU has issues, but the notion that it is going to break up is dangerous wishful thinking. European countries understand that there's power and safety in numbers.

Greece had no choice! It was bailed out by German money! Now Germany is on the verge of recession, with a very vocal, active Right Wing opposition!  And Greece is still bankrupt.

8 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Now were talking 

Come on Retsdon ! Greece is a basket case, with unemployment at ridiculous levels, its never going to recover unless there are drastic changes, it exists on EU bailouts, those bailouts will eventually collapse the banks or Greece.

France has burned every weekend for 4 months, massive discontent and a failing economy.

Italy has elected an anti establishment, anti EU government, its economy is nearly in recession, and has an EU sponsored migrant problem it is struggling to cope with.

Hungary and Poland ,whilst receiving masses of EU cash , have major issues with Brussels, and will probably get sanctioned in the near future, sanctions these 2 nationalist countries will not accept, potential for leaving the bloc.

The UK is having a very public battle over its Brexit decision, with EU intransigence being seen by all, and viewed as a test bed for further exits by many.

I could go on , but you certainly cannot tell me the EU is in perfect health.

By the very nature of Brexit and its likely conclusions, the EU is further damaged.
Its very existence is dependent on making the UKs exit painful and unsuccessful , a clean break, and prosperity in the future for us , would certainly seal its fate.
However , even if we cancelled Brexit tomorrow , the EU is still in decline, it would take longer, but its cost to us would be far greater, as it dragged us down too.

Agreed!

8 hours ago, oowee said:

In the past we had to be bailed out by the IMF to stop us going bust. 

IMF, NOT EU!

7 hours ago, oowee said:

Have you been to Greece? 

Recessions come and go. France faces huge social change that it's population does not want to own up to. The West is living beyond it's means hoping to stave of the inevitable. The EU makes it easier to hold these changes at bay. 

 

 

Rubbish! By opening it,s borders to the Third World?

[pinfireman]

7 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Is this what you boys wish for? Now you can have harmony with everyone in the UK , very noble of you 🙂

 

Ah, the voice of the ex-pat! No need to ask why you want to stay in !

7 hours ago, oowee said:

If we did not have the EU we would invent it. Hopefully it would be better second time around. It will have to change or collapse and reform. Maybe Brexit and the new members will be the catalyst for change. Another driver is the need for much greater (centralist) budgetary control around the Euro. 

Then go and invent another one, tell the people porkies to get them to back you.................in the meantime, let,s get out of this failing "superstate"...........

[oowee]

Interesting piece on CH4 looks like the evidence of Russian involvement in the Brexit process through Arron Banks is getting closer to being proven. It demonstrates the importance of joint working, when the Russians are prepared to influence politics here and use our own people to destabalise the state. 

[JRDS]

Except they influenced nothing, being paid would merely have been a bonus.

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

This is funny.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/05/david-miliband-foreign-secretary-eu-referendum-brexit-may

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'

David Miliband

Um , lets dissect this.
First off, you were foreign secretary 10 years ago, under a labour government, until your brother booted you in the nuts, and you went off crying to America.

On 12 May, flanked by 15 supportive members of the parliamentary party, Miliband announced from outside the House of Commons that he would stand in the resulting leadership election.^[61] On 10 June 2010, Barry Sheerman, Huddersfield MP, nominated Miliband for the Labour Party leadership post with Mr. Sheerman's daughter, Madlin Sadler, as Miliband's Campaign Co-ordinator. Madlin Sadler had served under Miliband previously as Special Advisor.^[62]

The other contenders for the leadership were Ed Balls, Andy Burnham, Diane Abbott and David's brother Ed Miliband, with David Miliband gaining the most nominations. The result of the contest was announced on 25 September 2010, the day before the start of the 2010 Labour Party Conference in Manchester. While David Miliband led the share of the electoral college votes in the first three rounds, he lost in the final round (50.65% to 49.35%) to his brother Ed. He announced on 29 September 2010 that he would be quitting frontline politics and would not be a part of his brother Ed's shadow cabinet.^[63]

Retirement from politics[edit]

Miliband resigned from the shadow cabinet in October 2010, but continued to serve as the MP for South Shields. He also taught A-Level Government and Politics on a voluntary basis at Haverstock School.^[64] In 2011, he became Senior Global Advisor for Oxford Analytica.^[65]

^{Ooh , Oxford Analytica, that well known , totally independent think tank that regularly tells us how bad Brexits going to be, often down to the penny 🤣}

But its not all bad.

Business interests[edit]

On 21 December 2010, the Office of David Miliband Limited was formed with Miliband and his wife Louise as directors.^[78]

According to the Financial Times, "much of Mr Miliband’s time has been spent on his lucrative directorships and speaking roles, which he would be expected to give up if he returned to frontline politics…as of January 2013, David Miliband has made just short of £1m on top of his MP’s salary since he failed to win the Labour leadership in the summer of 2010."^[79]

According to a March 2013 article in the Huffington Post UK, Miliband has earned almost £1m since the 2010 election. The article listed sources of income from speaking (where he has earned up to £20,000 per event), advisory and teaching roles, journalism, gifts, hospitality and overseas visits.^[80]

David Miliband is one of six members of the Global Advisory Board of Macro Advisory Partners, which advises multinational corporations, sovereign wealth funds, investors and governments.^[81]

In January 2012, David Miliband joined the Board of Directors of Mauritius-based private equity group, Indus Basin Holdings.^[82] IBH operates Rice Partners ^[83] in the Punjab region of Pakistan which specialises in managing the end-to-end supply chain for major global users of rice.^[84][85]

According to the Financial Times,^[79] "Mr Miliband’s jobs include advisory roles with VantagePoint Capital Partners, a Californian group; Oxford Analytica, a UK advisory company; and Indus Basin Holdings, a Pakistani agrochemical group. He is also a member of the advisory board to the Sir Bani Yas academic forum, which is hosted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Arab Emirates. Despite supporting Arsenal, Mr Miliband is vice-chairman and a non-executive director of Sunderland. As a speaker he commands a fee of up to £20,000."

Miliband is also on the Advisory Board of VantagePoint Capital Partners.^[86]

David Miliband is a member of the Trilateral Commission, founded and chaired by David Rockefeller.^[87]

^{The trilateral Commission is a Globalist organisation with fingers in many pies, not least an intense desire to see a one world government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission}

 

^{Back to his Brexit epiphany.}

'As foreign secretary I argued against an EU referendum. Now I back one'
 
I know hes been away for a while , but he does realise weve already had one ?
What he means is, another one, now being called  'the final say vote' so it doesnt sound like 'vote again till you get the right result vote' 😆

 

'The Brexit debate is coming to a head at a moment when Britain’s political parties seem to be coming apart. Maybe that is not surprising. The 2016 referendum usurped the role of parliament and MPs. And both Labour and Conservative parties are being pulled by the far right and far left. The mess of Brexit is the result. Millions of voters are left feeling not only frustrated but homeless, with unprecedented strain on the stability and legitimacy of the two-party system.'

HILARIOUS !
So the vote was invalid because they actually gave a proportional majority vote to the people? How very err democratic globalist.
And 'millions' of voters are frustrated ?
You got that right you utter imbecile, 17.4 million of them.
Go back where you came from man, and take Bliar with you, your opinion and attempts to meddle are embarrassing and unwelcome.

He,s a pompous little idiot! Like his pal Blair!

[oowee]

1 minute ago, JRDS said:

Except they influenced nothing, being paid would merely have been a bonus.

The best subversive warfare takes place without anyone being aware they have been enrolled in the cause.

[JRDS]

I didn't need any subconscious Russian mind games thanks, I have always despised what the EU has done to this country.

[Raja Clavata]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

Interesting piece on CH4 looks like the evidence of Russian involvement in the Brexit process through Arron Banks is getting closer to being proven. It demonstrates the importance of joint working, when the Russians are prepared to influence politics here and use our own people to destabalise the state. 

One of the numerous themes from the ITV programme last night too.

[toxo]

8 hours ago, Scully said:

Yes, it would. I've always been of the opinion that there is an undeniable truth in the phrase, that when in conflict, the first casualty is the truth, and I've always said that I don't care how well someone fights in opposition, as long as they do it with honesty. I've always maintained that once you fabricate to prove a point then you've lost the cause and the truth will out in the end and show you up for what you are. 

An excellent point well made Scully.

[tonker]

All we need is for Macron to veto extending article 50. Job done (dreaming I am).

[Jaymo]

34 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Ah, the voice of the ex-pat! No need to ask why you want to stay in !

Then go and invent another one, tell the people porkies to get them to back you.................in the meantime, let,s get out of this failing "superstate"...........

Aaah, such a shame your info is out of touch - judging by my last few tax returns I’m most def domiciled in the UK.

I do of course have a place overseas, but that’s not my reason supporting the benefits of EU membership- had that long before this all came to the Public fore.

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

The best subversive warfare takes place without anyone being aware they have been enrolled in the cause.

Do you mean like Europe trying to take over our country!! Just not with bullets and bombs.

 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

The best subversive warfare takes place without anyone being aware they have been enrolled in the cause.

Surely the irony of this comment isn't lost on you? 🙂

[Gordon R]

Scully - class.

[poontang]

11 hours ago, oowee said:

The best subversive warfare takes place without anyone being aware they have been enrolled in the cause.

 

8 hours ago, Scully said:

Surely the irony of this comment isn't lost on you? 🙂

 

Game, set and match to Scully. Well played sir!!

[Scully]

Thankyou kind sirs! 🙂

[das]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Thankyou kind sirs! 🙂

You are very welcome Thank You

[Rewulf]

Anna Soubry MP , has been hanging around with ex Labour MPs for a week now , and has picked up some bad habits 😃

Terrible mathematics a la the Dianne Abbot school of economics !

She has stated that Brexit needs to be cancelled because 63 % of the electorate DIDNT vote for it.
Its a song weve heard before, as in the 13 million who didnt bother voting, would DEFINITELY have voted remain, a shockingly blase assumption, based on idiot logic.

We can use this logic on Ms Soubrys Broxtowe constiuency.

Soubry (for the tories , who she no longer represents.) - 25,983

Greg Marshall ,Lab                                                              - 25120

Others                                                                                   - 4405

Didnt bother voting                                                            - 18385

So the voters who didnt vote for Soubrey                    - 47910     65% of the constituents.

So by idiot logic, Ms  Soubry needs to vacate her seat forthwith, or at the very least call a by election, and make sure she achieves at least 50.1 % of ALL of Broxtowes voters.

Seems perfectly fair to me 😄

[besty57]

27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Anna Soubry MP , has been hanging around with ex Labour MPs for a week now , and has picked up some bad habits 😃

Terrible mathematics a la the Dianne Abbot school of economics !

She has stated that Brexit needs to be cancelled because 63 % of the electorate DIDNT vote for it.
Its a song weve heard before, as in the 13 million who didnt bother voting, would DEFINITELY have voted remain, a shockingly blase assumption, based on idiot logic.

We can use this logic on Ms Soubrys Broxtowe constiuency.

Soubry (for the tories , who she no longer represents.) - 25,983

Greg Marshall ,Lab                                                              - 25120

Others                                                                                   - 4405

Didnt bother voting                                                            - 18385

So the voters who didnt vote for Soubrey                    - 47910     65% of the constituents.

So by idiot logic, Ms  Soubry needs to vacate her seat forthwith, or at the very least call a by election, and make sure she achieves at least 50.1 % of ALL of Broxtowes voters.

Seems perfectly fair to me 😄

And to think she was a barrister in a former life,

[amateur]

6 minutes ago, besty57 said:

And to think she was a barrister in a former life,

Whoever said that barristers could count?

[scutt]

54 minutes ago, amateur said:

Whoever said that barristers could count?

the clients they send bills to

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, besty57 said:

And to think she was a barrister in a former life,

Seems politricks might be a better earner.

 

[pinfireman]

Germany’s prestigious IFO Institut has crunched the numbers on the economic impact of no deal on 44 countries and predicted that Ireland would be hit three times harder than the UK by a no-deal Brexit, taking a massive 8.16% hit to their economy. Guido hears that Ireland has been the main EU27 country holding out against any reference to the UK’s basic Vienna Convention treaty rights over the backstop. They may want to seriously reconsider their position after seeing these figures…

However, the Institut also modelled the effect of a “hard but smart” Brexit, where the UK left with no deal but also put in place large unilateral tariff cuts, more or less exactly along the lines of what what the Government is planning. In this scenario, the UK actually faces a smaller impact than the EU – they forecast a -0.5% impact on the UK compared to -0.4% for France and -0.48% for Germany, and -0.6% for the EU as a whole. Ireland is still by far the biggest loser, taking a -5.39% hit, ten times the size of the UK…

In their sector-by-sector breakdown, they find that the UK would actually receive a major boost to certain sectors in a “hard but smart” Brexit, with electrical equipment up by 3.7%, machine manufacturing by 8.4% and pharmaceuticals by a whole 8.7%. EU sectors lose out across the board…

Gabriel Felbermayr, the author of the report and also President of the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, said that the EU needed to “urgently ponder whether the danger of a hard Brexit isn’t bigger than initially assumed” and called on the EU to offer to remove the backstop “as a quick fix at least”. Brussels and Dublin can only keep sticking their fingers in their ears for so long…

H/t Pieter Cleppe

Source Guido Fawkes..   www.order-order

23 hours ago, oowee said:

Interesting piece on CH4 looks like the evidence of Russian involvement in the Brexit process through Arron Banks is getting closer to being proven. It demonstrates the importance of joint working, when the Russians are prepared to influence politics here and use our own people to destabalise the state. 

In case you missed it last night, here’s Channel 4 News’ 14 minute re-hash of an old Guardian story from six months ago revealing nothing new. Despite all the scrutiny, nobody has yet found a single Ruble…

Channel 4 News are having a season of Banks stories this week, all ahead of the court hearing with the Electoral Commission later this month. They will allege that he was a donor who gave hundreds of thousands to UKIP, Labour Leave, Grassroots Out and UKIP. Who knew? Everyone.

Channel 4 News should look into Lord Sainsbury, he gave million to groups on the other side opposed to Brexit. Who knew? Everyone.

Expect more tales of African adventures, Channel 4 reckon Banks offered a South African cop a bribe…  Guido Fawkes.

 

Quite clearly a campaign to try to divert Banks from donating to the Brexit Party. 

23 hours ago, JRDS said:

Except they influenced nothing, being paid would merely have been a bonus.

Correct! After 2.5 years of "investigating" (that,s a laugh!) they have found NOTHING!

[pinfireman]

23 hours ago, JRDS said:

I didn't need any subconscious Russian mind games thanks, I have always despised what the EU has done to this country.

That makes about 96% of those posting on here!

23 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

One of the numerous themes from the ITV programme last night too.

Channel 4 a government channel..................more dubious propaganda. 

22 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Aaah, such a shame your info is out of touch - judging by my last few tax returns I’m most def domiciled in the UK.

I do of course have a place overseas, but that’s not my reason supporting the benefits of EU membership- had that long before this all came to the Public fore.

So what other benefits do you receive? It,s difficult to find any that would have changed our minds.