old man Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, matone said: Exactly! History will take a dim view of these people. Sadly, it appears that there are never consequences for these people other than they suck up even more unearned wealth at every turn. No politico ever cares about how they are regarded by history, all about the subjugation of others along with the accumulation of more money. That seems to be the situation whether elected or not? An interesting quote attributed to Stalin 'Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?' Edited July 12, 2018 by old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 hours ago, yod dropper said: During the referendum it was absolutely clear that we were voting to be free on matters of trade deals, borders and laws. Fox, Grayling, Johnson and Gove repeated and repeated this mantra. Their opposite numbers made it clear that we would be voting to leave the single market. I've been following the post Chequers events quite closely. I've barely come across a journalist who hasn't exposed that the white paper will not deliver on what we were told we were voting for. Neither will it deliver on the Conservative manifesto nor the current Labour position deliver on theirs. Now whether you think we should have voted to leave or not, or that we would be better off half in half out it's not difficult to see the democratic deficit and imagine some of the issues that this will present in the near term and in the future. Politicians cannot offer us a choice then refuse it, ask for our votes then renege on their promises without there being consequences. I think we can agree that the referendum campaign was full of many differing views of the truth on both sides. The ballot paper was simply leave or stay. We will be leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 minute ago, oowee said: I think we can agree that the referendum campaign was full of many differing views of the truth on both sides. The ballot paper was simply leave or stay. We will be leaving. In name only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 hours ago, JRDS said: Plus she went to either agree it with or pick it up from Merkel the day before Chequers, that is Treason. Dominic Rabb seems to have sold himself out for his new position I see, there is some real scum residing in the Tory party right now. You are correct time for a mass clear out. I would think that was the deal being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 A British Prime Minister asking for permission from a German Chancellor to do something? If true? It makes you wonder who won the 2nd world war?.....it seems after all, it was Germany! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 It's scandals and if true, she needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Dave-G said: Is there somewhere we can read about that dea? I watched it on bbc parliament today the vote was at about 4pm i think try tv catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Mrs May the remaniac will damage this country's economic situation, her current plan (which is a slap in the face to the 17.4 million leave voters) will likely preclude us doing trade with the rest of the world, as confirmed by President Trump. I've been thinking over the last few days on some of the comments on here that say, "we are leaving the EU which delivers on the referendum, it didn't state the terms of how we'd leave ect", that is total nonsense, we voted to leave the EU, the EU club is made up of many rules that tie us and prevent us from self regulation, the main parts being 1. Free movement of people, 2. The customs union, 3. The single market, 4. EU court supremacy. Theresa Mays latest plan ties us to many of these core rules, meaning in plain English we're leaving nothing other than the EU in name only, now someone convince me she is being true to democracy and the 17.4 million who voted leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Whatever you think of Donald Trump, he cut through all the rubbish that is being spoken and got straight to the point. He has the clarity of thought - possibly because he can't grasp all the complicated variables, but that isn't a bad thing. Anyone who claims to have a complete handle on what will happen post Brexit is lying. Trump doesn't do fine detail, just broad brush strokes. In many respects, that is just what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Whatever you think of Donald Trump, he cut through all the rubbish that is being spoken and got straight to the point. He has the clarity of thought - possibly because he can't grasp all the complicated variables, but that isn't a bad thing. Anyone who claims to have a complete handle on what will happen post Brexit is lying. Trump doesn't do fine detail, just broad brush strokes. In many respects, that is just what is needed. Spot on Gordon, and on a slightly different theme, the anti trump blimp is an absaloute disgrace and how a publicly elected individual like Khan can keep his job after such a stunt is beyond me, it shows who the real baby is imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Whatever you think of Donald Trump, he cut through all the rubbish that is being spoken and got straight to the point. He has the clarity of thought - possibly because he can't grasp all the complicated variables, but that isn't a bad thing. Anyone who claims to have a complete handle on what will happen post Brexit is lying. Trump doesn't do fine detail, just broad brush strokes. In many respects, that is just what is needed. Im sick to the back teeth of disrespect shown to Trump by some of the liberal snowflake elements in this country. The BBC shows more news about protests about it ,than the actual visit. You have people being allowed by our media, to state that he is 'an idiot' a 'racist' and a sex pest. Well if being an idiot gets you to being a billionaire, celebrity, a success in virtually everything he sets his hand to, including becoming POTUS, then Ill have some of that idiocy. A racist ? funny how no one, no one at all, called him a racist before he ran for Republican candidate. Likewise with the sex assault allegations (which went no where) no one accused him of anything until he ran for president. No , hes not perfect, he can be abrupt, obtuse, but he gets to the point, he gets things done, and hes gaining popularity because of it. Hes told May straight, youve messed up, and good on him for that. A refreshing honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 15 hours ago, panoma1 said: A British Prime Minister asking for permission from a German Chancellor to do something? If true? It makes you wonder who won the 2nd world war?.....it seems after all, it was Germany! New World Order conspiracy theorists would not be surprised by this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vince Green said: New World Order conspiracy theorists would not be surprised by this That's true, however it's possible it's not a million miles from what's happened. https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_153147472699312&key=dd1565d9a6e3794e62d9582c3ccfe600&libId=jjjsi7rd010009kp000MAkcvvkfq9&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F375910-brexit%2F%3Fpage%3D8&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F987688%2FBrexit-news-Theresa-May-brexit-white-paper-angela-merkel-chequers&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.pigeonwatch.co.uk%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F375910-brexit%2F%3Fpage%3D9%26tab%3Dcomments&title=BREXIT - Page 8 - Off Topic - Pigeon Watch Forums&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F987688%2FBrexit-news-Theresa-May-brexit-white-paper-angela-merkel-chequers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 interview on ITV now with magid magid Sheffield mayor about Donald Trumps visit, what a Muppet, he is wearing a t shirt which says Donald Trump is a waste man ?? Another guy on trying to talk sense but i didn't see his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? There's a huge difference, Obama came over and stated it before the referendum took place trying to influence the vote, also it has since come out that he did it on request from Cameron, more deception, trump is stating fact as he sees it AFTER the vote has taken place, therefore not trying to influence a democratic vote by the people, also I personally can't imagine anyone's capable of putting him up to it, unlike Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? How is he messing with our democracy ? We have voted to leave , democratically, our OWN leaders are messing with our democracy. Trump is simply pointed that out to them, but if you want to label it something it isnt, fill your boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? Obama's comment on a trade deal was threatening in nature. There was no reason for us to be at the back of the queue, back then Trump said we would be at the front. Trump's recent comment on a trade deal was factual in nature. Even journalists and Trump-detractors acknowledge this. So it can't be this, it must have been the Johnson comment you were referring to. Even then he said he wasn't pitting one against another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? To me this issue is very simply this; Obama attempted to influence the voting (and hence the outcome) in the referendum. Trump is attempting to ensure the outcome of the referendum is carried through. Different as chalk and cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Trump is attempting to ensure the outcome of the referendum is carried through. I'd say he's just making a statement of fact, Obama was making a statement of intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 48 minutes ago, oowee said: I thought we did not like US presidents messing with our democracy? Ooops sorry forgot that's only when they comment on the other side of the argument. Is that hypocrisy? 2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: To me this issue is very simply this; Obama attempted to influence the voting (and hence the outcome) in the referendum. Trump is attempting to ensure the outcome of the referendum is carried through. Different as chalk and cheese First quote........Another attempt by a remainer to undermine Brexit by twisting and misrepresenting the facts! Second quote......the real facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Trump now he says a deal can be done, you boys can'y have it both ways, even though Trump thinks he can ? Just goes to show how hard these deals are to do and how all sides need to relax and let this thing thrash out. It's shades of grey after all. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) On 10/07/2018 at 00:15, oowee said: For me it's an easy one. The West has grown economically on the back of it's exploitation of labour and resources from around the world. Our wealth is now under threat from lower cost economies that will out compete the West on price. We compete on quality, innovation and style. Over time the margins in these areas will be eroded. One way to resist this erosion is through protectionism which we can do through standards of safety in manufacture process, quality standards for products and through enforced environmental standards. It's easier to do this in a larger trading group of nations. The EU is an ideal vehicle for this. It's policy of bringing new nations in and then assisting them to modernise and become more effective trading nations, increases its economic mass. The larger the market the easier it is to raise the internal standards. So protectionism and standards. I'll start with standards, the British had the best standards in the World in the British kite mark. Standards which we had to lower because other EU countries couldn’t meet our standards. I'll give you one example - Fire Extinguishers, our system was far safer (Different colour extinguishers rather than all Red with different colour labels) but we had to change ours because other EU countries couldn't afford to meet ours. So much for raising standards, the EU made us lower ours. And then we get to protectionism, I take it you support Trump and his protectionism? And then we get to the worst of it, Funding other Countries with UK TAX payer's money, why should the UK TAX payer pay for other Countries to become more successful and then also have to take their workers? Workers in the most that have no intention of bettering the UK, only their bank balance, at the expense of the UK working class. Edited July 13, 2018 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, oowee said: Trump now he says a deal can be done, you boys can'y have it both ways, even though Trump thinks he can ? Just goes to show how hard these deals are to do and how all sides need to relax and let this thing thrash out. It's shades of grey after all. ? I wish you would make your mind up where youre at with Brexit, Trump and plenty of other things ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I wish you would make your mind up where youre at with Brexit, Trump and plenty of other things ! My mind is clear. Brexit here we come. We don't want a trade deal with the US if we have to take their farm products. Trump is not for me. Couldn't be clearer. Maybe you boys should make up your minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts