Scully Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 😂 You really couldn't make this up! They voted Boris in and then pulled the rug! Like I've said, we ain’t leaving, deal or no deal, we ain’t leaving. Scum, the lot of em. Boris needs to call a snap GE before legislation is passed and then I can put my big fat cross in that Brexit box! 😃 Edited September 4, 2019 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The loosing vote was I think 301. Therefore about 290 Tories and about 10 DUP (I assume). Therefore well over 90% of Tories followed the leadership line. The key thing here is that when you belong to a 'party', you stand together. You stand on their manifesto, receive the party's support in electioneering, are elected as a party candidate. The other side of the coin is that when the party leadership puts a '3 line whip' on you - party rules say you have to comply. 90% were compliant with that. The 21 were a less than 10% group. I agree with you, but how are you going to get British politics to work AGAIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The loosing vote was I think 301. Therefore about 290 Tories and about 10 DUP (I assume). Therefore well over 90% of Tories followed the leadership line. The key thing here is that when you belong to a 'party', you stand together. You stand on their manifesto, receive the party's support in electioneering, are elected as a party candidate. The other side of the coin is that when the party leadership puts a '3 line whip' on you - party rules say you have to comply. 90% were compliant with that. The 21 were a less than 10% group. Not if your party is acting against its own principles. Tories were known for honesty, integrity and reasoned thinking. The kipper is saying he is negotiating and making progress when he is clearly not. The EU under its own rules cannot open the withdrawl agreement until the earliest at their meeting in October the time when the Kipper says he will have a deal. As a member of anything you have to call it out when it is acting fraudulently. 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I agree with you, but how are you going to get British politics to work AGAIN! Work together. Develop an agreement that the EU will sign off let the people decide which one they want. Have an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 ‘.....have to call it out when it’s acting fraudulently’. Mmmmm. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The loosing vote was I think 301. Therefore about 290 Tories and about 10 DUP (I assume). almost that. here's the full split: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, oowee said: Not if your party is acting against its own principles. Tories were known for honesty, integrity and reasoned thinking. The kipper is saying he is negotiating and making progress when he is clearly not. The EU under its own rules cannot open the withdrawl agreement until the earliest at their meeting in October the time when the Kipper says he will have a deal. As a member of anything you have to call it out when it is acting fraudulently. Work together. Develop an agreement that the EU will sign off let the people decide which one they want. Have an election. Exactly. What is happening now is more or less what should have happened about three years ago, the Tories (May) got it all wrong then and it's difficult to see how things are going to pan out differently for Boris. Of course the new legislation could all be stumped if the Lord slow roll it. Whether people like it or not the election is referendum 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: almost that. here's the full split: So it would appear that there are 2 labour MPs with integrity, the others with leave constituencies are just afraid to lose the cushy number. It should be remembered by the remain members on this topic that BOTH parties manifestos were to honor the out vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Zapp said: Ironic that the motion was passed by 52% to 48% (rounded figures). Should we have another vote then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO3isme Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 How many Brexit days have to come and go before the 52% feel that there is no alternative but take the law into their own hands? Assuming that they just don't accept that leaving the EU is 'impossible'. What can the obviously disenfranchised do if there is no General Election? What if even after the GE, we still 'can't' leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbyduck Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, B725 said: Should we have another vote then? what like a vote on the result of the vote ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 The 52% are welcome to leave, the farne islands, IOW, Canvey would be suitable for them? But I insist on border controls, not backing down on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: It should be remembered by the remain members on this topic that BOTH parties manifestos were to honor the out vote. This is correct; for those accusing Johnson of "saying he is - when he's not" - remember the whole Labour and Tory parties "saying they would honour the referendum - when they are not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, SO3isme said: What if even after the GE, we still 'can't' leave? If a general election is set up 'right' - it will be a 'leave' or 'remain' election. On the leave side we have Tory (officially), Brexit, DUP, possibly an independant or two. On the remain side we have Labour (apparently), LibDem, SNP, Plaed Cymru, a few Change/unknown. Who will win will depend on 'deals' where candidates come behind each other to have a single 'runner'. So this will leave the outcome mainly in the hands of Farage and Johnson. Will they do a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 the forthcoming election will be akin to "the night of the long knives" there will be a lot of twitchy bottoms.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: If a general election is set up 'right' - it will be a 'leave' or 'remain' election. On the leave side we have Tory (officially), Brexit, DUP, possibly an independant or two. On the remain side we have Labour (apparently), LibDem, SNP, Plaed Cymru, a few Change/unknown. Who will win will depend on 'deals' where candidates come behind each other to have a single 'runner'. So this will leave the outcome mainly in the hands of Farage and Johnson. Will they do a deal? All that will be of little consequence if the government have to abide by a no deal policy, as the EU are not going to negotiate and we will be locked into a scenario that has no escape unless the house accepts the deal they have refused 3 times already. In effect the house has just put us on the road to being in the very worst negotiating position possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, welsh1 said: In effect the house has just put us on the road to being in the very worst negotiating position possible. Absolutely correct. If there is a General Election, and IF there is a pact between Johnson/Farage, and fewer 'rebel' Tories - there should be a reasonably strong leave majority - and that might break the logjam. On the other hand, IF Brexit Party and Tories both stand and split the leave vote - and the remainers get their act together - we will remain in the EU, and have a Corbyn led government with Abbott as Home Secretary, McDonnell as Chancellor - and the country will be broke, most citizens will loose much of their savings and we will be back to 3 million unemployed in 1 term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, henry d said: The 52% are welcome to leave, the farne islands, IOW, Canvey would be suitable for them? But I insist on border controls, not backing down on that... Oh Henry, you are a wag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 51 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Exactly. What is happening now is more or less what should have happened about three years ago, the Tories (May) got it all wrong then and it's difficult to see how things are going to pan out differently for Boris. Of course the new legislation could all be stumped if the Lord slow roll it. Whether people like it or not the election is referendum 2.0. You mean 3.0 as may has a snap to get majority... that slapped her in the face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Oh Henry, you are a wag! Why thank you, its been a good evening and a lovely morning and the day promises so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: You mean 3.0 as may has a snap to get majority... that slapped her in the face... You are right but the May election was not fought on clear lines between Leave and Remain. BoJo might well get something slapped too. In an ideal world he'll fire Dominic Cummings and negotiate a deal with Labour that a GE only happens if Corbyn is replaced too. I know I am dreaming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 You certainly are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Absolutely correct. If there is a General Election, and IF there is a pact between Johnson/Farage, and fewer 'rebel' Tories - there should be a reasonably strong leave majority - and that might break the logjam. On the other hand, IF Brexit Party and Tories both stand and split the leave vote - and the remainers get their act together - we will remain in the EU, and have a Corbyn led government with Abbott as Home Secretary, McDonnell as Chancellor - and the country will be broke, most citizens will loose much of their savings and we will be back to 3 million unemployed in 1 term. may well break the log jam...........then we will have to listen to labour and the lib-whimps...and the pot smoking greens ...bloody moan for the next 40 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, ditchman said: then we will have to listen to labour and the lib-whimps...and the pot smoking greens ...bloody moan for the next 40 years... True - but avoiding that is not a good reason to let them in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oowee said: Work together. Develop an agreement that the EU will sign off let the people decide which one they want. Have an election. Work together ? You need to be at war , or on your knees as a nation before that happens, I wouldnt hold your breath ! Develop an agreement the EU will sign off on , are you being serious, you do realise they dont want us to leave, and if we cant have no deal, they just keep offering a deal we cant accept, or parliament remainers wont pass anyway ! Like what has already happened 3 times 😂 Besides the fact , they have said they wont renegotiate the WA anyway, and why do they need to , no deal was the only leverage we had, if that really is removed.... Let the people decide what they want ? Didnt they already do that ? Plus another referendum does what, unless the the remain majority is huge, the calls for a third will be inevitable, besides the fact, you will have some very angry, and focused leavers, which leads us to....Have an election.? With that focus comes big support for the leave parties, and maybe even some remain voters , disgusted with the abuse of power by remain parliamentarians . So the highly likely scenario where a leave majority sits in parliament, then what ? Edited September 4, 2019 by Rewulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I prefer the "Guy Fawkes" option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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