BREXIT

[Retsdon]

 

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

Add to which we have a leadership now and after any election incapable of working through the process.

Yes, it's unfortunate that cometh the hour the man was AWOL.

It's been a bit of a perfect storm really. I just worry that this is going to be one of those slips, like threads parting, that you see in older people. I mean, nobody can deny that Britain's glory days are in the rear view mirror. You only have to look at a 50 year sterling chart to see the trend. But like people going into old age, the transition has to date been almost imperceptible.

But then, as with getting old, there comes an event,  like an illness or a bereavement for example, and suddenly it's like some threads of a cord or rope have parted and you see a person and they've suddenly aged horribly in no time at all. These things are never linear, they come in stages and fits and starts. And if you read history, countries and civilisations have also been prone to these same event-triggered slides.

I can't help thinking that perhaps Brexit, with its backwards looking nostalgia for a time that's never coming back, and a kind of mass refusal to see the world as it actually really is in the second decade of the 21st century will prove to be one of these slippage moments.

The best way to stay young and strong  is to stay engaged. Drifting away off the north coast of France into glorious isolation hardly fits the description 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Retsdon

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

Yes, it's unfortunate that cometh the hour the man was missing. 

It's been a bit of a perfect storm really. I just worry that this is going to be one of those slips, like threads parting, that you see in older people. I mean, nobody can deny that Britain's glory days are in the rear view mirror. You only have to look at a 50 year sterling chart to see the trend. But like people going into old age, the transition has to date been almost imperceptible.

But then, as with getting old, there comes an event,  like an illness or a bereavement for example, and suddenly it's like some threads of a cord or rope have parted and you see a person and they've suddenly aged horribly in no time at all. These things are never linear, they come in stages and fits and starts. And if you read history, countries and civilisations have also been prone to these same event-triggered slides.

I can't help thinking that perhaps Brexit, with its backwards looking nostalgia for a time that's never coming back, and a kind of mass refusal to see the world as it actually really is in the second decade of the 21st century will prove to be one of these slippage moments.

The best way to stay young and strong  is to stay engaged. Drifting away off the north coast of France into glorious isolation hardly fits the description 

 

My thoughts exactly but I would also add little confidence that a post Brexit government will do anything other than more of the same. Rather than embarking on a huge cross party push for education, technology investment and so on. 

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

Yes, it's unfortunate that cometh the hour the man was AWOL.

It's been a bit of a perfect storm really. I just worry that this is going to be one of those slips, like threads parting, that you see in older people. I mean, nobody can deny that Britain's glory days are in the rear view mirror. You only have to look at a 50 year sterling chart to see the trend. But like people going into old age, the transition has to date been almost imperceptible.

But then, as with getting old, there comes an event,  like an illness or a bereavement for example, and suddenly it's like some threads of a cord or rope have parted and you see a person and they've suddenly aged horribly in no time at all. These things are never linear, they come in stages and fits and starts. And if you read history, countries and civilisations have also been prone to these same event-triggered slides.

I can't help thinking that perhaps Brexit, with its backwards looking nostalgia for a time that's never coming back, and a kind of mass refusal to see the world as it actually really is in the second decade of the 21st century will prove to be one of these slippage moments.

The best way to stay young and strong  is to stay engaged. Drifting away off the north coast of France into glorious isolation hardly fits the description 

 

quite amusing really, i picture us watching Europe falling apart at the seems, while we smile thinking how lucky we weren't dragged down with others.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

but I would also add little confidence that a post Brexit government will do anything other than more of the same. Rathe

A Corbyn Labour government will try and enact a radical socialist experiment. A Conservative government will try and enact a radical free-market experiment. 

Choose your poison, really.

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

really, i picture us watching Europe falling apart at the seems, while we ...

I will guarantee that the EU isn't going to fall apart at the seams. That's another sign of malign old age - retreat into a fantasy world...:)

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

A Corbyn Labour government will try and enact a radical socialist experiment. A Conservative government will try and enact a radical free-market experiment. 

Choose your poison, really.

I will guarantee that the EU isn't going to fall apart at the seams. That's another sign of malign old age - retreat into a fantasy world...:)

How many EU countries are doing well?  Your probably looking at 4 or 5 propping up the rest, how can that continue? And I'm far from old 😉 

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

How many EU countries are doing well? 

None of them really, but that's mostly a matter of demographics and declining industries. It's all made in Asia nowadays.

 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

We have a government that appear to be trying to take us out without a deal whilst pretending to try to negotiate one. Isn’t the government part of the establishment?

 

We have a PM that appears to be trying to take us out without a deal, his Government will drop him like a stone if the need arises. Yes, the government are indeed part of the establishment, but at this moment in time, a minority within that establishment. 

[Mice!]

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

None of them really, but that's mostly a matter of demographics and declining industries. It's all made in Asia nowadays.

 

Don't disagree, given wages, production costs and how easily things can be shipped it's nigh on impossible to compete.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I think its inevitable in the absence of any options. Only a question of time. 

I sincerely hope so, I really do. 

[SpringDon]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

<snip>

Would that country be like the one we are in now? A country where there are no state aid rules for infrastructure? Or are you referring to state aid for products goods and services? Being out of the EU we could subsidise them to our hearts content but... we would likely have difficulty selling them beyond our shores. 

Not sure where you’re based but currently in my country state aid is subject to approval from the European Commission.

[armsid]

in reply to many comments would you stay in a club that hates you except for your money? why cannot our leaders tell us what to expect from remaining if it means ever closer with taxation the euro etc how will NHS be funded pensions through NI contributions In france health care is through insurance you pay to see a doctor .will this happen here? will retirement age be harmonised  ours is the highest i believe will we have EU commissioners vetting our budget like in italy and greece if something goes wrong  we threw away the commonwealth countries to trade with  the EEC (as it was) and now give aid instead of trading with them  HOW WOULD CORBYN BE ABLE TO NATIONALISE EVERYTHING IS THIS THE SAME AS STATE AID? BY STAYING IN EU WOULD THE GERMANS ALLOW HIMTO TAKE OVER GAS AND ELECTRIC WOULD THE FRENCH SPANISH ALLOW THE WATER FIRMS TO GO WOULD THE EU WHERE WOULD THESE UTILITIES STAND WITH A NO DEAL BREXIT

Edited September 28, 2019 by armsid

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, Retsdon said:

A Corbyn Labour government will try and enact a radical socialist experiment. A Conservative government will try and enact a radical free-market experiment. 

Choose your poison, really.

I will guarantee that the EU isn't going to fall apart at the seams. That's another sign of malign old age - retreat into a fantasy world...:)

How can you possibly state that? The "House of Cards has extremely poor foundations and has suffered several wobb;les in recent years.

[oowee]

11 hours ago, SpringDon said:

Not sure where you’re based but currently in my country state aid is subject to approval from the European Commission.

The UK. There is no state aid rules for infrastructure. Outside of the EU, state aid rules for goods would not apply. If however you aid those goods with the point of making them cheaper than otherwise might be the case then export can be problematic. Under WTO terms countries can fairly block those products as they might undercut that countries own production. 

An example is canned tomatoes from Italy. They are very cheap and exported to Australia. Australia tried to block them as they undercut the indigenous market. The EU has taken Australia to WTO for breach of rules and they are arguing over if the tomatoes are subsidised. 

 

You originally said 

So a <yet to be seen>% drop in gdp might be good then? Reduction/ reversal in growth is inevitable, some might say it would be advantage to be in a country where the government is not prevented from investing in infrastructure due to anti state competition rules.

 

[Bigbob]

But what can Boris do the government wouldn't back Thersa for a deal so now Boris is going to walk away without one they are moaning , they need to remember the people voted to leave and the time is up .

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

But what can Boris do the government wouldn't back Thersa for a deal so now Boris is going to walk away without one they are moaning , they need to remember the people voted to leave and the time is up .

The conflict between the fantasy promises made by Brexiteers and the reality of negotiation do not allow for a deal acceptable for both sides. After we leave without a deal and the vitriol subsides we will go back to the EU and accept the deal they are offering and pay the £39m settlement. We will just have to lump the £ billions of cost in between times.

[Raja Clavata]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

The conflict between the fantasy promises made by Brexiteers and the reality of negotiation do not allow for a deal acceptable for both sides. After we leave without a deal and the vitriol subsides we will go back to the EU and accept the deal they are offering and pay the £39m settlement. We will just have to lump the £ billions of cost in between times.

This and what Retsdon posted previously about viewing the past with rose tinted glasses.

[panoma1]

How will the UK fare without the EU to prop us up? OK I imagine, as we are reportedly, amongst the richest countries in the world, but a more salient question surely is.....how will the EU fare without the UK’s money to prop them up?

[Raja Clavata]

Interesting to see the Brexiteer narrative shifting in places to discussions around the terms under remaining in the EU.

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting to see the Brexiteer narrative shifting in places to discussions around the terms under remaining in the EU.

Not shifting, just flagging up the points that the "anti no dealers" and remainers are totally ignoring whilst prattling on continuously about any other out deal, and ramping up project fear.

[Scully]

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting to see the Brexiteer narrative shifting in places to discussions around the terms under remaining in the EU.

Within the general public or government levels? 

[Cosmicblue]

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting to see the Brexiteer narrative shifting in places to discussions around the terms under remaining in the EU.

I heard exactly this on a shooting ground last week - a bunch of guys all saying that they voted leave based on believing that it was an immigration issue and now understanding three years later that it wasn't entirely true and now wondering if maybe a better deal within the EU would be a safer idea.     Somewhere in there was a general feeling of being totally browned off that the whole topic is going nowhere.

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

I heard exactly this on a shooting ground last week - a bunch of guys all saying that they voted leave based on believing that it was an immigration issue and now understanding three years later that it wasn't entirely true and now wondering if maybe a better deal within the EU would be a safer idea.     Somewhere in there was a general feeling of being totally browned off that the whole topic is going nowhere.

😀 Really? 

[Danger-Mouse]

Grieve, Letwin and Benn being investigated by No.10 for their involvement with foreign powers and the funding of their activities.

 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Grieve, Letwin and Benn being investigated by No.10 for their involvement with foreign powers and the funding of their activities.

 

Interesting. Where did you see the news? 

Found it 🙂

Edited September 29, 2019 by oowee

[Danger-Mouse]

Just now, oowee said:

Interesting. Where did you see the news? 

 

Just watched a YT vid talking about it. The headline is from The Mail Online.