are doctors allowed to charge for sgc renewal

[Scully]

All those shooting organisation fees still worth it? No one could be blamed for forgoing an organisation and simply paying for insurance through a plan and then medcert. It’s all going to get very expensive, and it won’t be too long before a gun ban is unnecessary, because the average working man will once again be priced out of shooting. 

[wymberley]

36 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

All perfectly true !  However, I found myself in the position of being between a rock & a hard place over this requirement to provide a GPs letter. My Firearms Dept (Kent)  is saying no letter = no licence. No  "ifs or buts"; if you dont produce the required letter your cheque will be returned, end of story. My existing GPs Practice have refused all enquiriers from the Police for the last 9 years and will not produce the letter required. I have spoken to the head of the Kent Firearms Dept and BASC (twice) all to no avail. Dont bother with BMA or any other medical agency; individual GPs are within their rights not to  provide a letter. There is no directions from above or law to say they must comply.

I am fortunate to have found another local practice who I could transfer to, and who will produce the required letter later this year. However, not everyone is going to be as lucky as me, so at least the medcert provided a last option. A nice little earner I agree, but had I not found another practice who would produce the letter for £25, this is the route I was thinking I would have to go down.

Agreed. It's wouldn't be all doom and gloom. For a start, that set figure would stop the unscrupulous medics charging an  excessive amount. However to be economically viable for the grass roots shooter as Scully details above, the police would need to take action. It is obvious that Joe Bloggs shooter's criminal or not record can be checked in seconds and as it's the medical side of things that they keep harping on about, if this were taken out of the police equation their input would drop dramatically and therefore so would their fees. This reduction in conjunction with Medcert's fee should produce at worst a marginal overall cost increase. Unfortunately, we instinctively know that plod is not going to wear it.

[JJsDad]

4 minutes ago, wymberley said:

it's the medical side of things that they keep harping on about

My `new` GP was quite pragmatic about the requirement for a letter and thought my previous GP was misguided in his refusal to get involved. As others have previously noted on this forum; he went on to  explained he is not being asked to comment on my suitability to own a firearm. He is being asked a series of medical questions namely: do I suffer from alcohol or drug abuse, manic depression, suicidal tendencies etc etc. He did ask how I would feel if I found myself on a days shooting where one of the other guns was snorting some unidentified white powder between drives and generaly acting strangely. Couldnt help but agree that in such a case I would feel the Police should seriously look at their licencing criteria.

[rbrowning2]

A complaint was made against the Kent medical process via the crime commissioners office however the complaint was not upheld.

An appeal has been submitted via the IOPC, independent office of police conduct, and is ongoing.

The medical history vetting is a mess.

from what I know the medcert process or alternative GP almost certainly are unable to comply with the likes of Kent who ask if the applicant has EVER had or does have a list of relevant medical conditions.  Both methods are only likely to be able, with your consent to gain online access to your own GP summary care records. These records are not yet available for everybody (98%) and for the majority of people are relatively new covering may be 15 to 20 years. They are just that a summary of care, including reason for attendance to the GP, medication, repeat prescription etc.

They are NOT a for EVER, unless you are very young, and are NOT a comprehensive medical history.

Only your OWN GP still using Lloyd George paper records has access to your complete, comprehensive medical history. 

Transferring paper records is complex and normally only done at death or if you change GP. As with online access and especially for non direct medical care access, as this is lots of NHS and data protection GDPR regulations apply.  So when the FEO tells you to use an alternative GP who will access your medical history online ask him how? Ask him to put it in writing.

sometime in the future 2025 may be, as the date keeps slipping all medical records will be digitalised and online if somebody pays for it!

Then if you use medcert or an alternative GP it is also virtually certain no flag will be added to your medical records that you own firearms, which is supposed to be one of the key goals to all this. 

At this time this is nothing short of a backside covering process by the police, they don’t care if the GP is not doing as they say, so long as god forbid if when the next incident occurs they will be on tv holding the medical report saying not our fault look we checked their medical history.

and another call to ban guns will follow.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

A complaint was made against the Kent medical process via the crime commissioners office however the complaint was not upheld.

An appeal has been submitted via the IOPC, independent office of police conduct, and is ongoing.

The medical history vetting is a mess.

from what I know the medcert process or alternative GP almost certainly are unable to comply with the likes of Kent who ask if the applicant has EVER had or does have a list of relevant medical conditions.  Both methods are only likely to be able, with your consent to gain online access to your own GP summary care records. These records are not yet available for everybody (98%) and for the majority of people are relatively new covering may be 15 to 20 years. They are just that a summary of care, including reason for attendance to the GP, medication, repeat prescription etc.

They are NOT a for EVER, unless you are very young, and are NOT a comprehensive medical history.

Only your OWN GP still using Lloyd George paper records has access to your complete, comprehensive medical history. 

Transferring paper records is complex and normally only done at death or if you change GP. As with online access and especially for non direct medical care access, as this is lots of NHS and data protection GDPR regulations apply.  So when the FEO tells you to use an alternative GP who will access your medical history online ask him how? Ask him to put it in writing.

sometime in the future 2025 may be, as the date keeps slipping all medical records will be digitalised and online if somebody pays for it!

Then if you use medcert or an alternative GP it is also virtually certain no flag will be added to your medical records that you own firearms, which is supposed to be one of the key goals to all this. 

At this time this is nothing short of a backside covering process by the police, they don’t care if the GP is not doing as they say, so long as god forbid if when the next incident occurs they will be on tv holding the medical report saying not our fault look we checked their medical history.

and another call to ban guns will follow.

 

That's how I see it, a great big backside covering exercise to spread any blame!

[old man]

16 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That's how I see it, a great big backside covering exercise to spread any blame!

That's just the name of all of the games lately?

 

[mossy835]

iv just seen my doctor and he will do mine again in 3 years time.

[peek-at]

On 04/09/2019 at 08:02, Boristhedog said:

I am minded to do this, ie not pay, but what happens next time? Does the practice keep a record of my not paying and simply refuse to comply with any future request. That would mean having to find another GP and in rural areas they are thin on the ground! 

 

If you live in a Police force area that does not insist on having a doctors report (ie not compulsory) do not pay the fee!

I was asked for £40 by my surgery, spoke to my FLO who confirmed that they give the G.P. 21 days to reply to their request, and if they do not receive a reply from the GP they process the application anyway, based on the information they already hold.

Edited October 2, 2019 by peek-at

[mossy835]

same as avon and somerset,i phoned them up and asked, if they do not here from the doctor in 21 days then all is ok.

[Jacko3275]

My doc just did it no fee or questions .. he must be a shooter him self

[Demonic69]

Just had the letter from my GP regarding my SGC application, £15 charge is all they're asking! Can't knock that

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Demonic69 said:

Just had the letter from my GP regarding my SGC application, £15 charge is all they're asking! Can't knock that

Very good, only £15 more than mine!

[Demonic69]

31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Very good, only £15 more than mine!

£15 more than my FAC application 6 years ago too!

[roadkill]

Got my new license for my sgc a week ago and today i get a letter from the docs asking for 40quid for a letter to the feo. As i have my licence should i just ignore?

[andrewluke]

3 minutes ago, roadkill said:

Got my new license for my sgc a week ago and today i get a letter from the docs asking for 40quid for a letter to the feo. As i have my licence should i just ignore?

did you ask for the letter?

[mossy835]

if we do not pay the fee, will it afect us the next time we want one,

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, roadkill said:

Got my new license for my sgc a week ago and today i get a letter from the docs asking for 40quid for a letter to the feo. As i have my licence should i just ignore?

Yes!

[old man]

On 05/09/2019 at 20:25, rbrowning2 said:

No their would never be anything causing a problem, as you have the printout so simply retype it leaving out what you like after all the willing GP will have never met you so will not know any different. Or you could just get online access to your medical records and save/edit them prior to printing them so then no need to get a free copy.  Don’t forget to thank the willing GP and tell him your see him again in five years.

And society can sleep easy knowing they are much safer because a nutter does not have a gun.

Oh and if by some miracle the police do at some time during the five years realise you had an illness that the willing GP should have told them about then nothing to worry about after all that was the GPs error not yours as you don’t even get a copy of what the GP summits to the police how did you know he made an error.

lots of good reading at

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/basc-response-to-firearms-licensing-guidance-consultation.172195/page-25

 

 

That's not how it works, the individual who need the service signs a form so that the new doctor can get the medical information direct via secure transmission from the individuals GP. This prevents any tampering.

[Westley]

On 22/09/2019 at 19:09, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That's how I see it, a great big backside covering exercise to spread any blame!

Wait until the next time (I hope NOT) we have a major shooting incident and then,  watch all of the 'finger pointing'  !          

[Ashers]

I paid £15 when I applied this year, I thought that was ok

 

[rbrowning2]

3 hours ago, old man said:

That's not how it works, the individual who need the service signs a form so that the new doctor can get the medical information direct via secure transmission from the individuals GP. This prevents any tampering.

Nothing actually gets transmitted from the individuals own GP via manual (people) intervention, online Summary Care Records that are held on servers at the GP practice are accessible just like online banking if the person accessing them is authorised to do so. 

I have witnessed , the applicant obtained via his own GP who would not engage in the process his GDPR printout in plain paper form and then took that to the alternative GP to do the report to the Police. As told to do by the FEO.  The GDPR is simply a printout of your “online” Summary Care Records (SCR), or at least the ones I have seen have been.

Medcert.com and the alternative GP can as you say with your consent view via the NHS portal access your SCR so that is also possible.

certainly both methods are being used in what numbers i don’t think anybody really knows.

Even if the second option stops the potential tampering with the records, the other problem is that SCR are not comprehensive and unless you are a teenager are not going to allow the alternative GP to comply with the EVER condition most if not all the police GP template letters require. 

The process only works if the applicants own GP engages in the medical process and lots are not.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by rbrowning2

[moondoggy]

My SGC is up for renewal in February next year.

Just got the letter from the police stating “No letter, no license”. I believe it was our police force who started this questionable practice.

Anyhow, just called my surgery who have made an appointment for me to go in this Saturday to get the report and pay them a nice big fat £54.

I am going to make sure I get a receipt so that I can claim it back in the future when someone decides that this is an immoral practice and any payments should be refunded, PPI style. I won’t hold my breath on that one though.

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, moondoggy said:

I won’t hold my breath on that one though.

I wouldnt either.

Once this becomes an accepted norm, you can guarantee a more stringent medical, possible psych evaluation for you to pay for.
Anything to thin the numbers out.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I wouldnt either.

Once this becomes an accepted norm, you can guarantee a more stringent medical, possible psych evaluation for you to pay for.
Anything to thin the numbers out.

Yep. Those organisational subs still worth it? 😉

[Rim Fire]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yep. Those organisational subs still worth it? 😉

You gotta love it when they say i'd rather be with such and such because they support shooting and doing @~:< all about it