Coronavirus (Covid-19) Is this it?

[Nuke]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think we need to turn away from globalization, at least in its current form, I'm not talking about going back to the 50s, but state owned critical infrastructure, start some of our own manufacturing, more locally sourced foods and seasonal eating, less immigration, start creating decent jobs with decent wages for the masses, giving them a stake in the country. Buy less stuff from China, particularly if they're not going to take some responsibility for this!

I think we need to go all out global and global state ownership. As long as different nations still exists the same issues will remain the next time around.

/Markus

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Whilst agreeing in principle, there are too many fundamentals wrong;

• The UK population is FAR too high not to be reliant on food and goods imports
• There is less farmland in production (due to housing, building, transport infrastructure etc.) and pressure to reduce still further to grow trees for carbon neutrality
• People believe they have a right to cheap travel for holidays etc.
• We have become a 'throw away' society ..... requiring continual replenishment

I sincerely hope I'm right in thinking that the current virus crisis won't materially reduce either UK or global populations - but ultimately that is where the real solution starts.

Quite right and it's certainly not going to happen overnight, but I think we need to start moving towards the real solutions and part of that is accepting, we don't have unlimited space and resources, curtailing globalization isn't going to happen overnight, but we need to make a start.

[oowee]

50 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Quite right and it's certainly not going to happen overnight, but I think we need to start moving towards the real solutions and part of that is accepting, we don't have unlimited space and resources, curtailing globalization isn't going to happen overnight, but we need to make a start.

Trying to stop globalization is lke trying to do a King Canute, the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. . We need to pool finite and scarce resources (land, air and water) and skills to find an agreed sustainable future and then a way out. We wont do that anytime soon until the populations back is against the wall. 

[12gauge82]

50 minutes ago, Nuke said:

I think we need to go all out global and global state ownership. As long as different nations still exists the same issues will remain the next time around.

/Markus

In a perfect world maybe, but unfortunately it's not. That's never going to happen, at least not in our lifetime, there's too many different cultures, with different views of acceptable practices, can you imagine one government for the UK and north Korea?, Not happening!

 

[oowee]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

In a perfect world maybe, but unfortunately it's not. That's never going to happen, at least not in our lifetime, there's too many different cultures, with different views of acceptable practices, can you imagine one government for the UK and north Korea?, Not happening!

 

One government would be the wrong description but one point of control has to happen at some point. 

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Only if you are asymptomatic and staying home as a family member is isolating.

In other words, only if it will get you back to work.

[Mice!]

39 minutes ago, oowee said:

One government would be the wrong description but one point of control has to happen at some point. 

I hope not, the only way I ever see that happening is after another world war.

[TRINITY]

45 minutes ago, oowee said:

Trying to stop globalization is lke trying to do a King Canute, the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. . We need to pool finite and scarce resources (land, air and water) and skills to find an agreed sustainable future and then a way out. We wont do that anytime soon until the populations back is against the wall. 

Well if that's the case then the world is finished. This virus, global warming ,plastic pollution or anything else are irrelevant compared to the threat over ever increasing population. 

[12gauge82]

47 minutes ago, oowee said:

One government would be the wrong description but one point of control has to happen at some point. 

The Nazis tried bless them!

The biggest problem the globe faces is over population, which is definitely not helped by globalization.

Pretty much every major crisis the world is currently facing is due to over population. 

 

[TRINITY]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

The Nazis tried bless them!

The biggest problem the globe faces is over population, which is definitely not helped by globalization.

Pretty much every major crisis the world is currently facing is due to over population. 

 

Yes totally correct.

Even in the UK, before covid 19, all we heard was housing crisis,over crowded schools, over crowded NHS, over crowded transport systems etc,etc,etc,.

Yet no one ever seems to link any of this to the fact that immigration that is legal increases the population by over 250 K per year and illegally probably doubles it.  I really wish the next time we start seeing politicians spouting on about the above problems ,for instance housing. Someone asks the simple question as to how increasing population solves it.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

Pretty much every major crisis the world is currently facing is due to over population.

This /\

You can balance overall population to some extent against 'standard of living'.  Arguably - we in the 'developed world' have too high a 'standard of living' and are a disproportionate user of world resources.  Certainly - if the developed world cut back on it's consumption - then things would ease ........ but as the population continued to grow - it would return - and be more painful to ease each time.

The world overall MUST bite the bullet and turnaround the relentless population growth and start a gradual reduction - so that the world population can gain a better balance standard of living for all.

It is a long term prospect (generations), but how you achieve it - I don't know.  China has apparently made progress ......

[Newbie to this]

7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

China has apparently made progress ......

How very apt

[islandgun]

2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

How very apt

😀

[oowee]

40 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The Nazis tried bless them!

The biggest problem the globe faces is over population, which is definitely not helped by globalization.

Pretty much every major crisis the world is currently facing is due to over population. 

 

Over population or lack of resources for the population we have, or poorly utilised and distributed resources it all needs managing at some point. 

Now we have the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse,  virus, global warming, economic meltdown and veganism 

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Over population or lack of resources for the population we have, or poorly utilised and distributed resources it all needs managing at some point. 

Now we have the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse,  virus, global warming, economic meltdown and veganism 

No, it's over population, unless we inhabitant a new planet, or Antarctica suddenly becomes inhabitable. The world has finite resources, the world has too many people, as does the UK, we don't need any further immigration in excess of people who have skills the UK needs, we certainly don't need more car washers.

[Dave-G]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

No, it's over population, unless we inhabitant a new planet, or Antarctica suddenly becomes inhabitable. The world has finite resources, the world has too many people, as does the UK, we don't need any further immigration in excess of people who have skills the UK needs, we certainly don't need more car washers.

But what about those people who stopped washing their own cars at about the turn of the century?

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Trying to stop globalization is lke trying to do a King Canute, the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. . We need to pool finite and scarce resources (land, air and water) and skills to find an agreed sustainable future and then a way out. We wont do that anytime soon until the populations back is against the wall. 

So a helpful, deliberate shove against the wall wouldnt go amiss then ?

 

26 minutes ago, oowee said:

Over population or lack of resources for the population we have, or poorly utilised and distributed resources it all needs managing at some point. 

Food resources could be tackled by utilising the millions of acres of empty fertile land in the Americas and Africa, but where is the PROFIT in feeding the world ?

Energy resources could be kept clean and sustainable using tidal, solar and wind , free energy..guess what ? No PROFIT.

Global warming ? Take a back seat, no ones listening, but threaten the populace with a virus that gives you a 1 in 10,000 chance of killing you , EVERYBODY stands up, pays attention, and (generally) does as theyre told.

The world doesnt NEED a one world government, common sense and good leadership should suffice (is that not what we elect leaders to do ?) but a one world government needs the WORLD, to do as its told , bend over , and take whatever they decide to give it, then PROFIT can be maintained, ORDER preserved,  with complete control, using FEAR.

Tin foil hat time ? Not really , its the slow creep of totalitarianism posing as 'innocent' globalism , because its easier to rule through fear than consent, think back to how monarchies used to govern, divine right and the threat of death.
A global government is just a world monarchy with a technological certainty attached to the threat of retribution should you dissent.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, just been announced that Eddy Little has died of Coronavirus while in hospital, RIP Edd

Edited April 2, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[Mice!]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

but a one world government needs the WORLD, to do as its told , bend over , and take whatever they decide to give it, then PROFIT can be maintained, ORDER preserved,  with complete control, using FEAR.

You mean like in China?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, just been announced that Eddy Little has died of Coronavirus while in hospital, RIP Edd

Eddie Large, yes RiP.

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Food resources could be tackled by utilising the millions of acres of empty fertile land in the Americas and Africa, but where is the PROFIT in feeding the world ?

Energy resources could be kept clean and sustainable using tidal, solar and wind , free energy..guess what ? No PROFIT.

The world doesnt NEED a one world government, common sense and good leadership should suffice (is that not what we elect leaders to do ?) but a one world government needs the WORLD, to do as its told , bend over , and take whatever they decide to give it, then PROFIT can be maintained, ORDER preserved,  with complete control, using FEAR.

 

Not sure where my post re four horsemen has gone? 🙂 

Using our resources wisely has to be part of the plan. Nothing will happen till we stop fighting for the scraps and competition makes way for co-operation. We have a fair few pandemic's, famine's and weather disasters to go yet. 

It does make me feel, that certainly for now, my generation has had the best of things. 

[Dave-G]

5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

You mean like in China?

Chi-nah - Trump says it better for me after what they have done to us.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

You mean like in China?

Pretty much.

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Eddie Large, yes RiP.

He went into hospital with heart failure, which at 78, isn't something many of his age come back from. 

But according to the media, he died from cv19? 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not sure where my post re four horsemen has gone?

Its still there

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Pretty much.

He went into hospital with heart failure, which at 78, isn't something many of his age come back from. 

But according to the media, he died from cv19? 

Oh yes, I was just marking his passing, it may well be heart but I doubt CV19 helped.