Newbie to this Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, timps said: Well the cartridge manufacturers have responded https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers Makes you wonder, do some people within the orgs stand to make a profit from the steel shortage Or did they just fail to do any due diligence before making this choice for everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 I must say i am surprised at they response from the cartridge firms. the fact they were not consulted is frankly Disappointing to say the least. Before making any Voluntary ban suggestions, i would have thought getting the manufacturers on side would have been a prerequisite. OH well nice idea, a shame stealing the match on the antis was a nice aspect of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 This whole thing is a complete abortion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 52 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: An interesting response. Well that makes very interesting reading. Even Eley, who many presumed had been dropping backhanders in the pockets of journos trying to flog their ‘ecowads’ have now distanced themselves from BASC + Co’s stance. So just what are the org’s playing at? That said, a certain amount of Mandy Rice-Davies applies in to the statement ("Well they would say that, wouldn’t they?") Quote Collectively, we do agree that the industry needs to evolve to become more environmentally friendly. We anticipate this happening as larger industries continue to invest in plastic alternatives which will naturally filter down to ours and other smaller industries. These major industries are in a better position to develop the alternatives, the smaller industries such as ours will then follow. It is unrealistic to expect a relatively small industry such as ours to be at the forefront of the development of such materials. This strikes me as “We’re going to wait and see, not invest any money in R&D” No, not an option, chaps, evolve or die. How bout, as a interim solution, making the plastic shot cups a bright colour, like day-glo orange, so that you could at least see them more easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 If they can't get this right then god help us with the judicial review of game bird releasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, grahamch said: If they can't get this right then god help us with the judicial review of game bird releasing. Another very good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: Well that makes very interesting reading. Even Eley, who many presumed had been dropping backhanders in the pockets of journos trying to flog their ‘ecowads’ have now distanced themselves from BASC + Co’s stance. So just what are the org’s playing at? That said, a certain amount of Mandy Rice-Davies applies in to the statement ("Well they would say that, wouldn’t they?") This strikes me as “We’re going to wait and see, not invest any money in R&D” No, not an option, chaps, evolve or die. How bout, as a interim solution, making the plastic shot cups a bright colour, like day-glo orange, so that you could at least see them more easily? R&D can be very expensive and needs millions of pounds the water soluble wad got a 2million euro grant and the new bioammo was setup with an 8million euro grant also it does appear that making a biodegradable plastic is not that simple after all big money could be made from it and yet nobody has really managed it. but we do now look like a total shambles why oh why the orgs have got this so badly wrong should be the question and may be somebody should resign and take responsibility for this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said: Well that makes very interesting reading. Even Eley, who many presumed had been dropping backhanders in the pockets of journos trying to flog their ‘ecowads’ have now distanced themselves from BASC + Co’s stance. So just what are the org’s playing at? That said, a certain amount of Mandy Rice-Davies applies in to the statement ("Well they would say that, wouldn’t they?") This strikes me as “We’re going to wait and see, not invest any money in R&D” No, not an option, chaps, evolve or die. How bout, as a interim solution, making the plastic shot cups a bright colour, like day-glo orange, so that you could at least see them more easily? Federal had pink wads one time, apparently for ease of finding, was in sales literature 30 years ago. Its a valid idea, but you find them on the shorelines easy enough annoyingly easier than 10ga cartridge cases. What we do now is wait see if the orgs re evaluate the situation and at least address the two obvious problems, Non plas steel/ hard non tox wads. And Go with the SAMI specs and screw CIP . As most Wildfowler re loaders have been doing for years anyway. Wait see what the say now. I think we have missed a chance to control our future. My fear is now the antis will just push for a ban and we will be ditched into this with no run up . Realistically Right now we need to wait for further advice. Carry on regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 What a farce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Typically arrogant of BASC et al. Ignoring members, ignoring manufacturers, ignoring the massive elephant in the room that winds up the like of WJ. Not surprising really. Still, all the usual slavishly devoted voices will chime in soon no doubt - how long before the penny drops, they're really not worth the money. Literally, no representation would be better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Incredible that no consulation was done - absolutely gobsmacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 I have just emailed BASC and asked if John Swift still works for them? It really does beggar belief the arrogance of these associations . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) Gotta keep the glorious twelfth for all those buddies in Parliament though, and those freebie Catton Hall big bag days paid for by members. Nothing beats those for a good old jolly up. The rest of you pigeon shooting and small, walked up shooting plebs can go swivel. Edited February 28, 2020 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemyheckler Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 that's a very interesting if not worrying announcement on the Gamebore website it's astonishing and/or arrogant that BASC and the others have made such a "sport changing" decision without any consultation with members or the UK cartridge manufacturers. God help the future of British driven shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, ilovemyheckler said: it's astonishing and/or arrogant that BASC and the others have made such a "sport changing" decision without any consultation with members or the UK cartridge manufacturers. Sadly - I find this sums it up well /\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 i take non stop abuse for alerting you the shooting organisations are failing you so thank you to everyone who gives me stick for it and the abuse on my comments have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 yes where are the basc lovers now there keeping quiet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 This beyond embarrassing how do we go forward now, seriously I cannot believe they did not consult the cartridge manufacturing industry somebody really should lose their job over this, what is the next media announcement from basc going to look like less than a week from telling everybody lead is poisoning the countryside, wildlife and the consumers of game. If they had problems selling game before last Monday they now It is likely to be mission impossible, talk of hitting the self destruct button even the likes of WJ could not have done a better job destroying game shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 I can feel the vibrations. One fat man, one thin one and one chubby woman jumping up and down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Copper monolithics next. Just wait. You can't argue lead is deadly and then accept that jacketed lead is fine for rifles (despite releasing several hundreds of fewer tonnes annually). The pandora's box is open. I'd sell your 22lr while it's still worth a ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, clangerman said: i take non stop abuse for alerting you the shooting organisations are failing you so thank you to everyone who gives me stick for it and the abuse on my comments I will stick my head above the parapet and reply; Firstly and most importantly I have not intended (nor as far as I know given) and 'abuse' to you - or anyone else. If it has come across that way - you have my unreserved apology. I have supported the BASC because I believed that this had been talked through between the various shooting organisations who also signed the original statement - and the other interested parties such as gunmakers, proof houses, cartridge suppliers. Why did I believe this? Because it is what I and I think any sensible person would have done - and the fact that there were several signatory organisations made me think a sensible decision agreed by all had been taken. I have stated earlier in this thread that I was initially disappointed that membership hadn't been consulted, but on reflection - could understand some reasons for that - notably - if you do ask - you will get a variety of responses and will inevitable disappoint many who will think they have been ignored. It is my belief that a lead ban was/is coming via the EU anyway. Todays statement from the cartridge manufacturers says there has been no consultation. I find that near incredible feel massively let down by that. I guess it may be the same with the gunmakers and the proof houses, but I don't know. Again - my sincere apologies if you or anyone feels I have been guilty of any 'abuse'. There are a range of views on this forum - and all are of interest - even if I don't always share those views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 The BASC are supposed to be the voice of shooting, but I fear they will not represent my voice much longer. BASC - this is a mess of your own making. I'm actually with you on plastic, but signalling a 5 year life on lead without consulting members or the people who make our cartridges is absolutely mental. Take a long look at how this happend, sack someone and "show again". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) It's all in the name of preserving the unpalatable and indefensible for the tiny, but moneyed minority. The shoot here, like countless thousands of others, doesn't sell its surplus to the EU, the guns and beaters take them home and eat them. Edited February 28, 2020 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 I'm sure BASC thought they have more clout on the big stage than they have. If anyone has done research into cartridges it's going to be the manufacturers as their business relies on it. They won't be pushing a product if it's not going to be sustainable long term and cost them their business if they hadn't researched it to death first and got it all wrong. Steel or soft iron shot is going to be significantly more expensive to produce than lead because of the energy output required to make the shot never mind the loading equipment. It's not just about wads, the simple act of melting the iron for the shot is going to take a massive amount of energy in comparison to lead that they will need to invest a HUGE amount of money in new autoclaves or whatever they use for producing the shot itself. I for one am going to get the popcorn out and wait for the response from the organisations because I bet it's going to be a real climb down or a pathetic defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemyheckler Posted February 28, 2020 Report Share Posted February 28, 2020 Unfortunately BASC have shown themselves to be completely arrogant. Although they claim to represent the shooting fraternity they don't ask for our opinion or consult with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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