Update from BASC / DEFRA

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, marsh man said:

I have been pigeon shooting for a good number of years and I have yet to hear any farmer losing his crop because pigeons on his drilling's , even less nowadays with the drill being air pressed and very efficient .

Like one of the other posters I would like to know where these hoards of pigeons are , most of our spring grain drilling is done now and before the lockdown there were no signs of these so called large numbers that were destroying crops within a day or two of the crop being put in the ground .

On this forum ( I am not bothered about face book and other forums ) the most consistent poster of big bags of pigeons and a man with a fast amount of experience is P C ( Pigeon Controler ) , if you follow his posts like I do you would have read where January and February were the worst months he have had shooting Pigeons for as long as he can remember and I believe he have been shooting for 25 + years , so where were they when he was out looking not only local as many a time he cover 100+ miles.

Traditionally we are coming up for the pigeon shooter quietest time of the year ( apart from the game season ) , apart from our Peas and Sugar Beet everything else what you would expect to shoot pigeons on is already in the ground and now the Pigeons start spending time in the woods eating the fresh buds  , going by other years we don't get that many till the Peas are well out of the ground which is well into May.

So I, along with a number of like minded members will follow what we need to do to stop , or at least try and slow this terrible decease down to give the N H S a chance to get on top of it , if they don't the undertakers will be needing many recruits as well as our health service

shooting fifty years plus myself nobody can deny refusing a farmer is a bad idea he’s asked i go it’s not a have the crack job it will be shoot most on the floor to make sure i get them and leave 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Please read this, it is taken from an Aircraft Photography Forum that I am a Member of;

In line with the guidance from the Government, we wish to make our position clear. Spotting, and photography of aviation, is not an essential activity and in order to discourage any such behaviour, any posts on this site that relate to photography at bases during the next 3 weeks or anything other than ‘at home spotting’ will be removed with the poster banned from the group. This is not something that is up for debate and you are free to disagree and remove yourselves from the group if you are not happy with this approach.

To be clear, feel free to post historical pics etc but images taken from this point forwards until further notified will be removed.

We must all do our part, no matter how small it may be, in keeping the wider population safe. This is unprecedented times in our generation and will be monitoring the situation accordingly. Comments are turned off on this post and any posts made which debate this will also be removed. The admin team have enough to be doing in their own lives without having to police the group 24/7.

This decision has not been taken lightly and we look forward to seeing your contributions after the 'lockdown' period has been lifted. As of now, please report any posts regarding info about spotting at a base and any picture posts taken from within the 'lockdown' period. We cannot police what you do during this unprecedented time but we can look after what is posted on the forum.

See you all on the other side.

Thanks for your co-operation,

Admin team

Stay at home
Protect the NHS
Save Lives

Edited March 31, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Dave-G]

10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

In that case the person closer to the farmer would have made less of a journey and would be ahead of you in the essential stakes!

Yes but avoidable if the soundbite was better thought out and maybe preserve a reason to possess.

So we just roll over and risk losing our tickets in some cases just for a soundbite that ought to have been to the effect of: 

"Keep as far apart from as many people as you possibly can - if that means stay at home then do so"

 

[udderlyoffroad]

I genuinely don't understand the fuss.

DEFRA has issued guidance, which, to sum up, amounts to: In general no, but if you can justify it for immediate crop/livestock protection, go for it.

That is as good as we're going to get; shooting does not need the blow-back associated with pushing this further.  If you truly think the 'optics' of BASC pushing this hard will help us in the long term, you're naïve (seemingly the PW word of the day).

Finally, those of you who want everything clarified in law, have clearly never heard of the law of unintended consequences. Dangerous Dogs act anyone?

If you do want everything prescribed in law, I suggest you all move to Germany PDQ, COVID-19 and Brexit allowing, and take the applicable State's hunters exam.  Good luck going from zero to licenced to shoot in less than 5 years.  And be prepared to put in a lot of work maintaining your local hunting ground ('Revier').

 

[NatureBoy]

Well none of my farmers have asked me to go and they know i am home. Have yours? None i have spoke to  have asked the police or NFU how we stand either as don't want to waste there time. Have yours? Drillings done pressed and sprayed. Not looking good for rape next year after this years disaster/failure. Many are concentrating on feeding folk! Others have family's and some with kids at home. They just as worried as the rest of us maybe while still working. Ignorant walkers and out of control dogs ant helping them. Nearest i got to shooting was when a farmer asked me to re position a gas gun while out walking the other morning after a complaint from resident. I will not say where he told me to put it.😉 He think they helping deter more  walkers than pests. I would like to trimming up the loads of jackdaws we have. Collard doves to (no trouble getting licence for them if you have turtle doves) being a problem. Ladder traps will soon be out on 2 farms especially if it stay dry like previous years.    NB 

[PeterHenry]

50 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Finally, those of you who want everything clarified in law, have clearly never heard of the law of unintended consequences. Dangerous Dogs act anyone?

If you do want everything prescribed in law, I suggest you all move to Germany PDQ, COVID-19 and Brexit allowing, and take the applicable State's hunters exam.  Good luck going from zero to licenced to shoot in less than 5 years.  And be prepared to put in a lot of work maintaining your local hunting ground ('Revier').

 

I think you have perhaps misinterpreted what I said.

I'm not suggesting a legal challenge, or indeed anything of the kind. What I am suggesting however, is that BASC should be takeing legal advice on their possition, which they in turn are advising their members to follow.

It would seem to me to be prudent for them to do so - but perhaps this is because I work in a law firm and have first hand experience of a large number of Companies - both small and large - seeking advice on the current situation.

Personally, I feel that this would be wise. I asked the question originally while fully under the belief that they would have referred it to some form of legal counsel.  Its shocking to me that they have not.

That said, I personally think the advice BASC have handed out is sound. However - and I'll refer you to a previous thread on this subject - I (perhaps reasonably or perhaps not) feel I am able make that call for myself.

I'll say though, that I have no plans to end my membership of BASC, and in general, I'm fully supportive of what they do. However, I think they have misjudged this one. It would do a world of good - and probably save them some money in the medium / long term if they employed an in house Solicitor.

My reduced hours end tomorow, so I wont be able to participate in this topic, or any future ones to the same degree. However, I'll still be following them with intrest.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

20 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

I think you have perhaps misinterpreted what I said.

I'm not suggesting a legal challenge, or indeed anything of the kind. What I am suggesting however, is that BASC should be takeing legal advice on their possition, which they in turn are advising their members to follow.

It would seem to me to be prudent for them to do so - but perhaps this is because I work in a law firm and have first hand experience of a large number of Companies - both small and large - seeking advice on the current situation.

Personally, I feel that this would be wise. I asked the question originally while fully under the belief that they would have referred it to some form of legal counsel.  Its shocking to me that they have not.

That said, I personally think the advice BASC have handed out is sound. However - and I'll refer you to a previous thread on this subject - I (perhaps reasonably or perhaps not) feel I am able make that call for myself.

I'll say though, that I have no plans to end my membership of BASC, and in general, I'm fully supportive of what they do. However, I think they have misjudged this one. It would do a world of good - and probably save them some money in the medium / long term if they employed an in house Solicitor.

My reduced hours end tomorow, so I wont be able to participate in this topic, or any future ones to the same degree. However, I'll still be following them with intrest.

Perhaps they are waiting for you to offer one.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, NatureBoy said:

Well none of my farmers have asked me to go and they know i am home. Have yours? None i have spoke to  have asked the police or NFU how we stand either as don't want to waste there time. Have yours? Drillings done pressed and sprayed. Not looking good for rape next year after this years disaster/failure. Many are concentrating on feeding folk! Others have family's and some with kids at home. They just as worried as the rest of us maybe while still working. Ignorant walkers and out of control dogs ant helping them. Nearest i got to shooting was when a farmer asked me to re position a gas gun while out walking the other morning after a complaint from resident. I will not say where he told me to put it.😉 He think they helping deter more  walkers than pests. I would like to trimming up the loads of jackdaws we have. Collard doves to (no trouble getting licence for them if you have turtle doves) being a problem. Ladder traps will soon be out on 2 farms especially if it stay dry like previous years.    NB 

There will be few if any farmers desperate for pigeon shooters this time of year.

[udderlyoffroad]

Peter, I wasn't referring to your posts, more the peanut gallery who want a firm position in law on med certs & also DEFRA guidance. It won’t happen, even by statutory instrument, and I don’t think many would like the fallout if it did.

[PeterHenry]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Perhaps they are waiting for you to offer one.

Flattering as that potential prospect may be, I think they need a Solicitor with some considerable experiance, as opposed to a paralegal with relatively little.

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Peter, I wasn't referring to your posts, more the peanut gallery who want a firm position in law on med certs & also DEFRA guidance. It won’t happen, even by statutory instrument, and I don’t think many would like the fallout if it did.

👍

[oowee]

23 minutes ago, old'un said:

There will be few if any farmers desperate for pigeon shooters this time of year.

Sod thepigeons. I have had farmers at my gate today asking (imploring) me to get on the foxes and blacks around the lambing sheds and chicken house. 

[spurs 14]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Sod thepigeons. I have had farmers at my gate today asking (imploring) me to get on the foxes and blacks around the lambing sheds and chicken house. 

Then go get them , I’m of the stopping in at present as were only on the pigeons but lambs need protecting , get a letter from the farmers on letter headed paper saying they have asked you to shoot for ptotection and have permission ( in case plod stop you , that’s your valid reason to a, be driving b, shooting ) the only thing which I’d say is don’t take pics and plaster it all over social media , cannot understand anyone doing this at present time !!     

[Scully]

Mate has just called to tell me he’s finally been stopped from going to work. He’s a rep for a company which sells parts to the haulage industry. 
He lives on his own, but his fiancée ( they’ve been engaged for years but I don’t think it’s gonna happen....he has the best of both worlds! 😀 ) lives on her Fathers 350 acre farm which forms one half of our rough shoot, so he’s gonna ‘isolate’ there....jammy sod! 
He’s taking a shotgun and his HMR, and his camera. 
I am really quite envious. 🙂

Edited March 31, 2020 by Scully

[motty]

3 hours ago, marsh man said:

I have been pigeon shooting for a good number of years and I have yet to hear any farmer losing his crop because pigeons on his drilling's , even less nowadays with the drill being air pressed and very efficient .

Like one of the other posters I would like to know where these hoards of pigeons are , most of our spring grain drilling is done now and before the lockdown there were no signs of these so called large numbers that were destroying crops within a day or two of the crop being put in the ground .

On this forum ( I am not bothered about face book and other forums ) the most consistent poster of big bags of pigeons and a man with a fast amount of experience is P C ( Pigeon Controler ) , if you follow his posts like I do you would have read where January and February were the worst months he have had shooting Pigeons for as long as he can remember and I believe he have been shooting for 25 + years , so where were they when he was out looking not only local as many a time he cover 100+ miles.

Traditionally we are coming up for the pigeon shooter quietest time of the year ( apart from the game season ) , apart from our Peas and Sugar Beet everything else what you would expect to shoot pigeons on is already in the ground and now the Pigeons start spending time in the woods eating the fresh buds  , going by other years we don't get that many till the Peas are well out of the ground which is well into May.

So I, along with a number of like minded members will follow what we need to do to stop , or at least try and slow this terrible decease down to give the N H S a chance to get on top of it , if they don't the undertakers will be needing many recruits as well as our health service

I disagree that we are coming up to the quietest time of year. I have shot many a good bag in April and May on plenty of different crops.

There is a hell of a lot of drilling still to be done around my way, and rape that is still being hammered. Peas plants will also be sprouting. Plenty of vegetables will also be getting hit. Honestly, if we can't justify shooting at this time of year, then we can't during any period!

[marsh man]

55 minutes ago, old'un said:

There will be few if any farmers desperate for pigeon shooters this time of year.

I can honestly say at this time of the year ,or any time of the year come to that   , I cannot remember the last time a farmer rang me up to ask me to go on a certain field because Pigeons are coursing problems to the crop , I do admit I get the odd call from the farm foreman or the tractor drive to say there are a few on the so so field , but a farmer ringing me up ? No.

They know I go regular and I know where the different crops are so they just let me get on with it , I would most likely know where the Pigeons are before the farmer knew.

[motty]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

There will be few if any farmers desperate for pigeon shooters this time of year.

Why?

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, motty said:

Why?

 

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

 

they do need you peas are plastered in birds i seen today 

[motty]

The way several posts on here are reading, we might just as well sell our guns and gear.  It is making a mockery of the GL, because apparently pigeons don't cause an issue at this time of year!

So who's wanting a close season on pigeons?

 

[Westley]

Maybe I have got this wrong, but it appears to me that those who are BASC bashing once again, are simply trying to justify their perceived right to go shooting at this difficult time. How can you expect ANY of our Organisations to give out any POSITIVE guidelines to Members (or in most cases Non-Members), when the interpretation  of what is essential and what is not, changes from County to County. As someone who has actually been an FEO, all I can say is IF you feel that your going pigeon shooting is something of National importance, then GO, just do NOT look for anyone else to blame should it go ' whatsits'  up and jeopardizes your gun certificate.  I really can not see where the terms of the GL come into this issue, this is entirely the terms and conditions of a 'lockdown' and if you feel that your actions fall inside those terms, just go and shoot.

[8 shot]

 We’ve lost crops to crows, geese but mainly to rabbits and once to pigeons (rape). It does need to be done regardless and it being such a wet autumn, there is more pressure on the spring crops to make a reasonable return.if possible. 

[Westley]

Just now, 8 shot said:

 We’ve lost crops to crows, geese but mainly to rabbits and once to pigeons (rape). It does need to be done regardless and it being such a wet autumn, there is more pressure on the spring crops to make a reasonable return.if possible. 

Can I suggest that the NFU get on to DEFRA for some clarity on the current situation then  ?

[ShootingEgg]

5 hours ago, grahamch said:

I am really struggling to understand the mind set of some folk on the forum.

We are in the middle of a national health crisis which is killing significant number of people and all some seem to care about is their lack of ability to go and shoot a few pigeons. 

Does it really matter?

It's only pigeon shooting at the end of the day when NHS staff maybe face catching something in the line of their work that could potentially kill them.

But then again there will always be a small minded and selfish minority who think they know best. 

 

I'm not saying this is aimed at me but... 

I have a veg farmer who supplies most of the big players in the country, he grows from seed to plug, if the deer or pigeon hit the millions of young shoots guess what, no food goes to the bigger growers then not to the supermarket. So I'm not being knob about wanting to shoot a few pigeons I'm trying to keep the food supply going. I'd be in a high seat on my own in the middle of a field. With no one near me. But I'd rather not get a fine or a record or worst case lose my licence due to a jobs worth officer. I want a solid and robust response from defra and then know that the police won't record me on a drone and shaft me. 

 

I am also not BASC bashing, I just want a proper response, we are probably one of the cleanest and most law abiding people in the country yet we are constantly **** on by the powers that be. I am following all the govt guidelines, have been shopping twice in the 14 days I've been at home due to office closures, I walk the dog once a day and some days in under an hour. So a bit of clarity isn't much to ask is it? 

[marsh man]

1 minute ago, motty said:

The way several posts on here are reading, we might just as well sell our guns and gear.  It is making a mockery of the GL, because apparently pigeons don't cause an issue at this time of year!

So who's wanting a close season on pigeons?

 

It's not so much as Pigeons causing an issue at this time of the year , it's a case of getting around the the rules and the law that we have never seen in our lifetime of anyone elses come to that .

We are told only to make essential journeys and that is exactly what they mean , looking at different fields for pigeons don't come under essential , you would have to look out for a likely field the same as everyone else and now that is something we can no longer do , so you have got to rely on the landowner to ring you up and give you permission to shoot on that certain field so if you got stopped by the police to explain your reason to be out you have got a text or in writing to warrant you being on the road , lets not forget we are in very serious times  with a record number reported dead today . 

[old'un]

41 minutes ago, motty said:

Why?

Because there is not a lot of growing crops that pigeons are likely to damage.

[old'un]

43 minutes ago, clangerman said:

 

they do need you peas are plastered in birds i seen today 

By that I presume you mean peas laying on the top?