Car homes

[TRINITY]

I see the news hounds have turned their attention to lack of ppe in care homes. I must admit I dont have an in depth knowledge about the care sector. However I have had a limited experience about care homes. From my experience they are all run as businesses ,it is a private industry run for profit. I only know three care homes owners and all three are extremely wealthy people who have made a great deal of money from the care business. I cant understand why it is the governments responsibility to provide ppe for care home staff. Surely it is the responsibility of the owners of these businesses to look after their staff and customers. If i am wrong in my assumptions i would be really interested to hear from people who have more knowledge than me on these matters.

[sportsbob]

I`m with you 100% on this one.

[Mice!]

I agree that the price increases on the PPE they want is wrong, but as others have said on other threads, they charge a lot of money for their services.  Their not NHS their mostly privately ran businesses. 

[snow white]

With you 100% on this one

[hawkfanz]

these places charge up to £1000 per week per resident,its up to the owners to pay for it out of all that profit.

[twenty]

Entirely agree........what would be the average cost per person / per week, that they charge in these homes ? ....roughly.

Ah.........beat me to it hawkfanz,........that's a lot of money.

Edited April 24, 2020 by twenty

[JKD]

I'm of the same thinking, but it surely isn't as simple as it seems ? 

I'm thinking about their outgoings/expenditure/overheads,,,, that figure must be quite large. Does anyone know anybody that actually knows or has experience of this, to give a view from "inside" so to speak ?

Just trying to see the full picture 🤔

[Dave at kelton]

This has gone through my mind as well. Private businesses that take responsibility for their own supplies but they are quite happy to level criticism elsewhere when they are ill equipped to deal with resident care. Why did they not have contingency plans etc in place on a home by home basis? Other private firms are expected to have these and disaster recovery plans as a matter of course.

[toontastic]

My partner works in a care home they have recently been sent a number of patients from the NHS. these people are isolated and have a member of staff living in their room with them 24/7 to limit contamination. 

As for PPE my partner has to order it in, she often finds that when she tries to order stuff she gets told they are prioritising supplying the NHS.

[Jaymo]

33 minutes ago, hawkfanz said:

these places charge up to £1000 per week per resident,its up to the owners to pay for it out of all that profit.

All that profit? Do you even have a clue as to what margins they have? 
There are overheads you know, Buildings/ staff/catering/consumables/insurances/ maintenance- the list goes on.

Viewing charges against unknown expenditures is purely guesswork and rather naive!  

[discobob]

In part from what I have heard, is that some hospitals are pushing back onto care homes for them to provide care to their residents that have Corvid but who are on death's door. This is introducing an increased level of risk to the staff and homes who are now having to provide services above and beyond.

Carers, by the very nature have to get into exceedingly close contact with the residents and can't social distant themselves from them.

I do believe that there is a case for the government to ensure a supply to the care homes. But there is also a cost of a fee that the home would have to pay, if it was private. The same as would come off any hospitals budget.

[Demonic69]

Not fact-checked (by me), but interesting; up to £1.5bn a year profit:

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/care-home-operators-billions-pounds-profits-hedge-funds-920264

[hawkfanz]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

All that profit? Do you even have a clue as to what margins they have? 
There are overheads you know, Buildings/ staff/catering/consumables/insurances/ maintenance- the list goes on.

Viewing charges against unknown expenditures is purely guesswork and rather naive!  

my sister an sis in law both work as carers,on minimum wage doin 12 hour nights,no xtra for weekends either.dont no about other costs.

[panoma1]

Another example of public funds being used to maintain/enhance private profit!

[The Heron]

2 hours ago, JKD said:

I'm of the same thinking, but it surely isn't as simple as it seems ? 

I'm thinking about their outgoings/expenditure/overheads,,,, that figure must be quite large. Does anyone know anybody that actually knows or has experience of this, to give a view from "inside" so to speak ?

Just trying to see the full picture 🤔

Yes my wife worked in one depending on the level of care required not necessarily medical the charges were up to £2500 per week and the residents in most care homes are known as units just like any other commodity, as usual it's always about the money. 

[JKD]

2 minutes ago, The Heron said:

Yes my wife worked in one depending on the level of care required not necessarily medical the charges were up to £2500 per week and the residents in most care homes are known as units just like any other commodity, as usual it's always about the money. 

Well that is very disrespectful to put it mildly !

And yes, if it's a private care home, as a business, it needs to make money/profits. That is understandable and acceptable.

I'm trying to question the lack of PPE criticism,,,, ie, yes, they should pay for it in some way/form/fashion, but to argue that point we need to see the £numbers from 'inside the care homes'. Not exact figures, just an idea of - can each [private] care home's owners afford to pay for their own PPE at the present time seeing as it is in such high demand ?

Basically, in this thread, and others, it's all one sided, so I'm curious to hear from someone [care home management] who actually knows 🤔

Should their workers get/have PPE,,,, of course. Who pays for it can be sorted out 'afterwards' surely ?

[oldypigeonpopper]

17 minutes ago, JKD said:

Well that is very disrespectful to put it mildly !

And yes, if it's a private care home, as a business, it needs to make money/profits. That is understandable and acceptable.

I'm trying to question the lack of PPE criticism,,,, ie, yes, they should pay for it in some way/form/fashion, but to argue that point we need to see the £numbers from 'inside the care homes'. Not exact figures, just an idea of - can each [private] care home's owners afford to pay for their own PPE at the present time seeing as it is in such high demand ?

Basically, in this thread, and others, it's all one sided, so I'm curious to hear from someone [care home management] who actually knows 🤔

Should their workers get/have PPE,,,, of course. Who pays for it can be sorted out 'afterwards' surely ?

hello, i agree in a private care home the owners or company finances should pay, why should they not get it as its part of health and safety equipment, buying it at this moment in time is another matter as apart from head mask most seems disposable after using a certain time for each patient, i dare say they only stock a certain amount of PPE in normal times but these are far from that,

[toontastic]

3 hours ago, discobob said:

In part from what I have heard, is that some hospitals are pushing back onto care homes for them to provide care to their residents that have Corvid but who are on death's door. This is introducing an increased level of risk to the staff and homes who are now having to provide services above and beyond.

 

Yes that's true my partner's home has taken in 7 or 8. But they are isolating them with a carer 24/7. Some staff haven't seen family for over a week.

As for being prepared with stocks of PPE how many months supply do people recommend as back up. I recently heard an NHS spokesman say they got through a week's supply in a day so are we suggesting they hold 7 X required stock. 

[toontastic]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

Another example of public funds being used to maintain/enhance private profit!

These are exceptional times but I'd rather see my taxes go on PPE for carers than furlough wages for employees of the super rich.

[The Heron]

1 hour ago, JKD said:

Well that is very disrespectful to put it mildly !

And yes, if it's a private care home, as a business, it needs to make money/profits. That is understandable and acceptable.

I'm trying to question the lack of PPE criticism,,,, ie, yes, they should pay for it in some way/form/fashion, but to argue that point we need to see the £numbers from 'inside the care homes'. Not exact figures, just an idea of - can each [private] care home's owners afford to pay for their own PPE at the present time seeing as it is in such high demand ?

Basically, in this thread, and others, it's all one sided, so I'm curious to hear from someone [care home management] who actually knows 🤔

Should their workers get/have PPE,,,, of course. Who pays for it can be sorted out 'afterwards' surely ?

Yes you are correct it is disrespectful to call the residents units but when I did some work for two people building care homes all they were interested in was how many units could they get in the building, their words not mine. 

[TRINITY]

42 minutes ago, toontastic said:

These are exceptional times but I'd rather see my taxes go on PPE for carers than furlough wages for employees of the super rich.

I cant see the difference myself. The care home owners I know are very very wealthy. May be they are unique, but I have a feeling they are not. Irrespective of what business they are in, if they have money then in my opinion my taxes should not be going into their pockets.

[Jaymo]

3 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

my sister an sis in law both work as carers,on minimum wage doin 12 hour nights,no xtra for weekends either.dont no about other costs.

So there goes your argument of £1000 profit already as they pay your Sister.

She might be on minimum wage but that’s not the end of what her employer pays just to have her employed. There are employer contributions too.

Them as mentioned, all the other overheads.

I can’t say I’m fully conversant with Care homes as my dealing are limited to my Sister in law who also works at one and someone I taught to fly who owned several back in the mid 90’s

 

[Mice!]

6 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

these places charge up to £1000 per week per resident,its up to the owners to pay for it out of all that profit.

 

38 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

So there goes your argument of £1000 profit already as they pay your Sister.

I think you've read it wrong Jaymo, let's say the home is charging a grand a week, very expensive but let's say they have 50 residents, £50k a week then!! 

That's 2.6 million a year! Obviously there are Bill's and overheads to come off that figure, but I'll bet their making a good profit.

 

[The Heron]

My father was recently quoted £1200 per week basic care in a Buckinghamshire care home. 

[oowee]

5 hours ago, The Heron said:

 it's always about the money. 

You mean it's a business? Would you rather they were run by the public sector?