Illegal immigration

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Your solution is let them ALL in.
Amidst blaming it all on 'the tories' 

I seem to remember the government you were so proud to work with were very good at just opening the doors.
More migrants , more labour votes ?
Now look at the state of the place 

More people living off the state, more labour voters!!

That's why there was such a landslide win for the Tories at the last election,  stop the illegal immigrants and sort out Brexit,  now it just needs doing, considering the majority the Tories have I really don't understand why they don't come down hard and stop the illegals crossing the channel once and for all, it's only the liberals who want them all picked up safely,  clothed fed and housed.

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, stumfelter said:

As hilarious as oowee's post is I still think Henry D's just tops it, but only just....

What gets me with people like Henry is in an episode of startrek or some other utopian society, of course everyone would be looked after and there would be no third world, but since that's fantasy, why does he think everyone else should have to pay the huge financial burden, suffer the lack of essential services and suffer the terrorist atrocities. When Henry has the space and wealth to pay for them all, he can have as many illegals as he wants, until then his opinion is irrelevant as he's expecting everyone else to pay for his opinions, without actually sticking his own hand in his pocket.

[armsid]

as has been said before how long before the pot drains out? Any gov in africa asia that wants its population reduced starts a civil war and all the ones they want rid of leave to come here if they applied legally would they get in? We have a crisis with covid reappearing again France on the qaurentine list so why are they still being picked up and put into the general population? Also where are the jobs? or are we going to feed and clothe them for ever 

[Vince Green]

Lets look at this from the point of view of numbers. In the past 50 years the population of many very poor countries has trebled or quadrupled. More or less all the countries along the West African Atlantic seaboard, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Gambia, Senegal, etc have all quadrupled.

To the East, Somalia Eritrea, Sudan, Pakistan, Afganistan etc the same. And the same increases are happening in every other country in both those regions as well but I am not going to list them all.

The numbers involved are absolutely huge, I am doing this from memory so give me some allowance if I don't get it quite right. Nigeria alone the population is now around 200 million and still growing. Has the economy grown in line with the population? No hardly at all.

Collectively these hundreds of millions of people worldwide are surplus mouths. Their home villages cant feed them or provide them with a future. The land has its own limitations.

So what are the choices for these people? and remember they are human beings with rights hopes and dreams? More and more they are being encouraged to "follow the yellow brick road" That road leads to Calais

But we can't take them, and the more we take the more will be encouraged to follow. They don't have the skills to find a future and employment that will give self sufficiency in this country. And what of the hundreds of millions still behind them?

Charitable good deeds like mass vaccination programmes and digging wells in villages cuts down infant mortality in desperately poor parts of the world but shifted the problem to what then happens to the children that then survive?

World population growth is the problem, the numbers are exploding and not just going to go away because they are people at the end of the day.

We need to keep our eyes on the bigger picture because it is hardly reported. What we are seeing at Dover is nothing compared to what we could be seeing in ten, twenty years time
The reason it is hardly reported is because journalists and politicians have no solutions to offer l

Edited August 24, 2020 by Vince Green

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Lets look at this from the point of view of numbers. In the past 50 years the population of many very poor countries has trebled or quadrupled. More or less all the countries along the West African Atlantic seaboard, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Gambia, Senegal, etc have all quadrupled.

To the East, Somalia Eritrea, Sudan, Pakistan, Afganistan etc the same. And the same increases are happening in every other country in both those regions as well but I am not going to list them all.

The numbers involved are absolutely huge, I am doing this from memory so give me some allowance if I don't get it quite right. Nigeria alone the population is now around 200 million and still growing. Has the economy grown in line with the population? No hardly at all.

Collectively these hundreds of millions of people worldwide are surplus mouths. Their home villages cant feed them or provide them with a future. The land has its own limitations.

So what are the choices for these people? and remember they are human beings with rights hopes and dreams? More and more they are being encouraged to "follow the yellow brick road" That road leads to Calais

But we can't take them, and the more we take the more will be encouraged to follow. They don't have the skills to find a future and employment that will give self sufficiency in this country. And what of the hundreds of millions still behind them?

Charitable good deeds like mass vaccination programmes and digging wells in villages cuts down infant mortality in desperately poor parts of the world but shifted the problem to what then happens to the children that then survive?

World population growth is the problem, the numbers are exploding and not just going to go away because they are people at the end of the day.

We need to keep our eyes on the bigger picture because it is hardly reported. What we are seeing at Dover is nothing compared to what we could be seeing in ten, twenty years time
The reason it is hardly reported is because journalists and politicians have no solutions to offer l

That makes a lot of sense, unless the land is managed correctly and farmed properly the whole of Africa is probably doomed, but everyone knows that.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

unless the land is managed correctly and farmed properly the whole of Africa is probably doomed, but everyone knows that.

You only have to look at Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) to see what happens when the land is left unmanaged.

[southeastpete]

On 20/08/2020 at 12:27, henry d said:

Not the same thing, seems he was older than first thought too.

Crossing the road is a choice, for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety.

Your having a laugh?

[southeastpete]

On 20/08/2020 at 14:14, henry d said:

Some more fact checking sure some will think or be told that the UK is a soft touch but that as I said is against the facts quoted, so if you can provide facts elsewhere that refute them, I'm all ears/eyes.

@Gordon R, posted mine, awaiting yours.

That fact checking link is rubbish. Statistics are always used in a way to favour the writer, rather than reflect the truth. For instance, applications per 1,000 capita, rather than applications plus illegal undocumented immigrants per square mile of destination country...

[southeastpete]

On 21/08/2020 at 11:51, toontastic said:

I trust if Britain ever became a nightmare state where children were raped and murdered you would not even consider sending your young family members away to safety, as that would so obviously be the wrong thing to do. 

I would stay and fight to stop this country being like that, if my wife wanted to take our daughter somewhere safe until it was safe again here that’s fine, but I’d expect her to go to France or Ireland, not pay a trafficker thousands to get to India or somewhere far.

When I had lumps in my throat and on my thyroid I had my life saved by an immigrant (Iranian Muslim) to this country I don't know how he came to be in this country I'm just grateful he was. I trust in the same situation you would refuse his help. 

If I knew they were an illegal immigrant I might. Have they been honest about being a trained surgeon? Have they lied about what country they are from? How can you know to what standard they are trained? Trained in the uk, fine crack on. But if the immigrant doctors weren’t here, there would be UK doctors.

I am not ashamed of being a zionistic jew but I am ashamed of once viewing all Iranians as my enemy. 

 

[chris1961]

How many more rapes murders will it take for people to wake up these people are from a culture that belongs in the dark adges

[NoBodyImportant]

You guys don’t know how lucky you are to have the channel.  

[JDog]

9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

You guys don’t know how lucky you are to have the channel.  

Don't you have the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and the Gulf of Mexico and a tight border with Canada?

Edited August 28, 2020 by JDog

[243deer]

So they have survived crossing the channel and folk ask what should we do with them?

I like the idea that if they have genuine papers then we can consider them.

Forged or no papers?

There is a ferry from Dover to Calais every 90 minutes - the solution is obvious - return them to Calais docks. If the french complain then simply shrug our shoulders and claim they stowed away on the ferry and there is nothing we can do. The French will understand this as it would be their type of solution.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, 243deer said:

The French will understand this as it would be their type of solution.

Very true.

On a related subject, deportations seem to be severely frustrated by lawyers acting here in this country; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8671687/Deportation-flight-cancelled-minute-legal-challenges.html

No doubt, like PC Harper's killers, all funded by legal aid from our taxes.

[Vince Green]

8 minutes ago, 243deer said:

So they have survived crossing the channel and folk ask what should we do with them?

I like the idea that if they have genuine papers then we can consider them.

Forged or no papers?

There is a ferry from Dover to Calais every 90 minutes - the solution is obvious - return them to Calais docks. If the french complain then simply shrug our shoulders and claim they stowed away on the ferry and there is nothing we can do. The French will understand this as it would be their type of solution.

The French will not let them off the Ferry and one hour later they will be back in Dover. The Ferry company is a private business and cannot be involved in knowingly carrying illegal passengers.

The French are smart, they have the upper hand and they know it.

[243deer]

Just now, Vince Green said:

The French will not let them off the Ferry.The Ferry company is a private business and cannot be involved in knowingly carrying illegal passengers.

Not the way it works Vince, in the docks - it is all minimum turn around time. Foot passengers walk across the docks to border control or are sometimes taken by bus, by the time the French knew they were there they would already be on French soil. They would not be illegal passengers, they are being returned from where they came.  If proof is needed we can just say we tracked the boat all the way across the channel - which we probably can considering the radar capability on top of the cliffs but whether our government will admit this is a different question

[Vince Green]

53 minutes ago, JDog said:

Don't you have the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and the Gulf of Mexico and a tight border with Canada?

The border with canada is not tight there are thousands of miles where there is no physical border at all. But Canadians and US citizens have free access both ways

[Vince Green]

6 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Not the way it works Vince, in the docks - it is all minimum turn around time. Foot passengers walk across the docks to border control or are sometimes taken by bus, by the time the French knew they were there they would already be on French soil. They would not be illegal passengers, they are being returned from where they came.  If proof is needed we can just say we tracked the boat all the way across the channel - know  we probably can considering the radar capability on top of the cliffs but whether our government will admit this is a different question

You can't make people board a ferry against their will and endanger the public.

What if they kick off on the ferry? what if they refuse to get off? Which they will do 

Besides which they stink from living in the camps 

[243deer]

3 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You can't make people board a ferry against their will and endanger the public.

What if they kick off on the ferry?

what if they refuse to get off? Which they will do

Besides which they stink from living in the camps 

You can make as many arguments as you like not to do something. If the will is there to do it then a way will be found.

[Dougy]

Scotland seems to be underpopulated for the area, maybe we English could move up there and let the boat people have all the land this side of the wall. 

👍

[Vince Green]

Don't think all these things haven't already been tried over and over again,, its not something new its been going on for more than fifty years, All the ideas you put forward have already been explored to death. and many more besides. 

France won't take them back, no way, no how. I can't see that changing any time soon. The problem is France 

4 hours ago, 243deer said:

You can make as many arguments as you like not to do something. If the will is there to do it then a way will be found.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[discobob]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Don't think all these things haven't already been tried over and over again,, its not something new its been going on for more than fifty years, All the ideas you put forward have already been explored to death. and many more besides. 

France won't take them back, no way, no how. I can't see that changing any time soon. The problem is France 

 

So we have to continue to exist in an abusive relationship then - is that your suggestion? We just continue allowing them to come? you keep on saying what can't be done - why not try and come up with valid suggestions - I am beginning to think that your IP address may be registered in France!!!

[Mice!]

5 hours ago, 243deer said:

Not the way it works Vince, in the docks - it is all minimum turn around time. Foot passengers walk across the docks to border control or are sometimes taken by bus, by the time the French knew they were there they would already be on French soil. They would not be illegal passengers, they are being returned from where they came.  If proof is needed we can just say we tracked the boat all the way across the channel - which we probably can considering the radar capability on top of the cliffs but whether our government will admit this is a different question

Like it

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Very true.

On a related subject, deportations seem to be severely frustrated by lawyers acting here in this country; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8671687/Deportation-flight-cancelled-minute-legal-challenges.html

No doubt, like PC Harper's killers, all funded by legal aid from our taxes.

Send the lawyers as well 😃

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Besides which they stink from living in the camps 

Sink the boats they arrive on, a refreshing swim should freshen them up.

4 hours ago, Dougy said:

Scotland seems to be underpopulated for the area, maybe we English could move up there and let the boat people have all the land this side of the wall. 

👍

I thought you were going to suggest sending the illegals up to Scotland. 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Don't think all these things haven't already been tried over and over again,, its not something new its been going on for more than fifty years, All the ideas you put forward have already been explored to death. and many more besides. 

France won't take them back, no way, no how. I can't see that changing any time soon. The problem is France 

 

The biggest enemy we have, always has been, always will be.

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, discobob said:

So we have to continue to exist in an abusive relationship then - is that your suggestion? We just continue allowing them to come? you keep on saying what can't be done - why not try and come up with valid suggestions - I am beginning to think that your IP address may be registered in France!!!

No you are fundamentally wrong in what you say. WE don't allow them to come, THE FRENCH allow them to come. Lets not lose sight of that very important fact

We are being shafted by the French and they are loving it.

If the French were doing what they were supposed to do the migrants wouldn't be sitting in Calais in the first place