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Gun Fit Fact or Fiction


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I like an adjustable comb  and butt pad spacers or longer pad I can get a gun to fit me close enough. 

Weight gain or loss and getting older and muscle loss along with different clothing your gun fit changes.  When I shot a lot of clays I wore the same kit so fit was the same everytime. Synthetic stock autos are only close to fitting but I get used to it. To get the drop in my shoulder comfy the comb is usually not exactly right.  

The SXS is completely different fit being a game stock it's along my jawline rather than cheek. Stance is more square on to qaurry. 

Opening or closing your shoulder pocket or twisting your body can make most length of gun shootable.

 

As others have said when your experienced you know what you can shoot or can't. Whether it don't fit or not, I've seen people with I'll fitted guns that can shoot them well bevy they learned mould themselves to the gun. Having it fitted would ruin their shooting.

Friend had a fitting at one of the big London schools. Shot his gun then the try gun, measured one against the other and close enough to not need any adjustments was the verdict.

Two friends had a lesson with welshwarrior and he helped them with gun fit and setting up their guns. Both shot much better after. Not sure if this was better gun fit or WW ironing out some faults.

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22 hours ago, Balotelli said:

To kick this topic off it would be interesting to get an idea of how many Forum members have had a gun fitted to their requirements. Clearly, we can't put our hands in the air but if anyone would like to share a gun fitting experience that would be great. The subsequent question,  just how much did a fitted gun make to their shooting? Would anyone  like to share their experience?

Getting a decent gun fit made shooting gun down much easier. I can expect the gun to shoot where I am looking. 

After a desperate day in the field I went to Julian at AGL to get kicked back into touch. He said he thought my gun was a tad too long in the stock. I went back for a tri gun session and got both my O/U and my SXS set up to those measurements. It cured a couple of problems that would emerge occasionally, such as me shooting down the right hand side of a driven clay. I certainly had a very good couple of days in the field the next season. It made me more consistent.

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1 hour ago, figgy said:

 

Two friends had a lesson with welshwarrior and he helped them with gun fit and setting up their guns. Both shot much better after. Not sure if this was better gun fit or WW ironing out some faults.

I’m glad they found it useful and others noticed the change  (not sure who it was I’m afraid) but I tend to find it’s both.

Good shooting isn’t about
a good gun fit

a good Mount 

a good Swing 

a good Routine 

etc

It’s all of these things bought together and applied correctly together that makes a good shot.  
 

A ‘perfectly’ fitted gun and mount won’t help the person who focusses in the barrels and pokes at the target, in same way a P or K gun won’t. 

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23 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

I’m glad they found it useful and others noticed the change  (not sure who it was I’m afraid) but I tend to find it’s both.

Good shooting isn’t about
a good gun fit

a good Mount 

a good Swing 

a good Routine 

etc

It’s all of these things bought together and applied correctly together that makes a good shot.  
 

Yes! you have to learn to shoot with good technique before you can get a gun fitted properly, but you can't very well learn to shoot without a gun that fits you. It's a constant cycle of improvement for beginners.

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Some very interesting points and thank you to everyone who replied. I'll probably induce rage on my following comments judging from previous posts. But I am honest and maybe a little too forthright. I am a very average shot and I have lots of excuses for this. Over a period of time I have helped friends improve their shooting. You don't have to be a top in your field to be a good coach. Often as not it's the other way round, for example Mourinho. 

Here's my opening gambit. I believe that "gun fit" is largely smoke and mirrors. Remember Harry Enfield and Chums and Paul White "suit you sir". I believe that many of us can pick up pretty well any old gun and shoot half-reasonably well.  Sure a gun that you've used for a long time becomes an old slipper. But I think that you adapt to the gun. I do believe that there are some guns that just don't feel right whether it's the length, weight or balance etc.  I had one such gun and it had to go. It wasn't cheap but there was no point in perservering with it. As one Forum member commented, how can you have a gun "fit" with winter clothes and summer clothes. Maybe a number of stocks are required depending on the season! Then we are back to balance. So a gun for all seasons is a compromise and has to be one that we are comfortable with. If you like a gun for whatever reasons you will probably shoot well with it.

With the gun that I purchased that was a disaster all sorts of "fixes" were suggested changing the butt pad, raising the butt pad etc.all of which were futile. I'm not convinced adjustments for cast, comb etc. really add that much and I see them largely as sticking plasters. If the gun feels right it probably is right. The next post that I make will be on gun mount which I feel is the crucial factor.

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Mourinho was still a professional footballer, I understand what you mean but would be wary to spout coaching advice unless you have been exposed to best practice.

With a shotgun your eye is effectively your rear sight and gun fit forms your front sight. If the gun doesn’t fit it will not shoot where you aim. I made this mistake with my first gun that fitted very badly, too far out for me to adapt to shoot it. 

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8 hours ago, ehb102 said:

Yes! you have to learn to shoot with good technique before you can get a gun fitted properly, but you can't very well learn to shoot without a gun that fits you. It's a constant cycle of improvement for beginners.

In my experience not just beginners some people just don’t shout about it. 

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12 hours ago, figgy said:

I like an adjustable comb  and butt pad spacers or longer pad I can get a gun to fit me close enough. 

Weight gain or loss and getting older and muscle loss along with different clothing your gun fit changes.  When I shot a lot of clays I wore the same kit so fit was the same everytime. Synthetic stock autos are only close to fitting but I get used to it. To get the drop in my shoulder comfy the comb is usually not exactly right.  

The SXS is completely different fit being a game stock it's along my jawline rather than cheek. Stance is more square on to qaurry. 

Opening or closing your shoulder pocket or twisting your body can make most length of gun shootable.

 

As others have said when your experienced you know what you can shoot or can't. Whether it don't fit or not, I've seen people with I'll fitted guns that can shoot them well bevy they learned mould themselves to the gun. Having it fitted would ruin their shooting.

Friend had a fitting at one of the big London schools. Shot his gun then the try gun, measured one against the other and close enough to not need any adjustments was the verdict.

Two friends had a lesson with welshwarrior and he helped them with gun fit and setting up their guns. Both shot much better after. Not sure if this was better gun fit or WW ironing out some faults.

Got the wife a lesson  with Daf a few years ago ............worse thing I ever suggested ..........after that she used to beat me at time ....... I hate him 😀😀😃😃😃😃😃

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9 hours ago, Balotelli said:

Some very interesting points and thank you to everyone who replied. I'll probably induce rage on my following comments judging from previous posts. But I am honest and maybe a little too forthright. I am a very average shot and I have lots of excuses for this. Over a period of time I have helped friends improve their shooting. You don't have to be a top in your field to be a good coach. Often as not it's the other way round, for example Mourinho. 

Here's my opening gambit. I believe that "gun fit" is largely smoke and mirrors. Remember Harry Enfield and Chums and Paul White "suit you sir". I believe that many of us can pick up pretty well any old gun and shoot half-reasonably well.  Sure a gun that you've used for a long time becomes an old slipper. But I think that you adapt to the gun. I do believe that there are some guns that just don't feel right whether it's the length, weight or balance etc.  I had one such gun and it had to go. It wasn't cheap but there was no point in perservering with it. As one Forum member commented, how can you have a gun "fit" with winter clothes and summer clothes. Maybe a number of stocks are required depending on the season! Then we are back to balance. So a gun for all seasons is a compromise and has to be one that we are comfortable with. If you like a gun for whatever reasons you will probably shoot well with it.

With the gun that I purchased that was a disaster all sorts of "fixes" were suggested changing the butt pad, raising the butt pad etc.all of which were futile. I'm not convinced adjustments for cast, comb etc. really add that much and I see them largely as sticking plasters. If the gun feels right it probably is right. The next post that I make will be on gun mount which I feel is the crucial factor.

Gun fit is part of the picture 

welshwarrior is on the money it’s part of a combination with the 4 points 

personaly think you should have a gun for each discipline you participate in and fitted for the time of year / clothes you are going to be wearing in the season you shoot it 

rarely use my game gun in the summer or my clay guns in the winter both are different stock lengths with the wildfowling gun having the shorter stock 

I have 3 suites for shooting lightweight medium and heavy the shoulder pads are made by my tailor to keep the gun length the same with some padding 

If you look back you should find a thread  or two on stocks I had made to measure and fitted 

so a good fitting gun and good mount And stance along with the correct movement Is a big contribution to being a good shot 

tbh I enjoy the experience of having a gun fitted and the confidence it creates along with the comfort of shooting it 

atb 

Of

 

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 I had a my gun fitted 2 months after purchasing it, I feel that it made my mount more comfortable and more consistent and my scores progressed, the fit was then subsequently checked on two separate occasions by two different well respected shooters/coaches, both of which said it fits as it should. Over the last 18 months my shooting has progressed steadily and I believe having the correct fit and strong foundations has helped with my progression. Now,  here is the spanner in the works, as some may be aware from a different post on the forum I had an incident last weekend where my gun parted company with itself in the hoop, I was left with no alternative but to shoot my friends gun. His gun is not fitted for me and I’m not used to shooting it and yet I shot my best layout of the day. I believe gun fit makes a difference, does it need to be perfect? I don’t think so!. As someone else pointed out above, we as humans are extremely adaptable and we seem to be very good at “making it work” 

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On 10/09/2020 at 08:48, enfieldspares said:

Five guns with stocks made, with the same wood used for their fore-ends, to a fitting. Earliest fitting in the 1990s by Ken Davies at Holland's ground near Northolt for a Webley 700 to be fitted and a Powell sidelock. And before that at Powell's a boxlock 3" ejector. And I've had fittings done by a number of supposed people that ought to have known what they were doing but didn't so I've always gone back eventually to Holland's re-visiting them for that in 2004 when I had my late father's gun re-stocked to me and then in 2015 when I had my Boss re-stocked to me.

Holland's are the best. West London a waste of time as were Powell's (done in the shop at Carr's Lane by Peter Powell) and a fitting done by Westley Richards when they were at Bournbrook. Westley's at least did it using a pattern plate at the standard sixteen yards. But you cannot correctly fit a gun in a shop (as I found to my cost at Powell's) or just simply using a pattern plate. You MUST at sometime during the fitting actually "try" the gun on clays. All my fittings were for side by side guns and all, except the Boss, with double triggers.

When I worked at Holland and Holland shooting Ground as a lad I saw many gun fittings and I absolutely endorse what you say, it does work 

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Was very lucky to be given an almost new Beretta Silver pigeon 12 bore,the property of a dear friend who died suddenly from a heart attack, as I had it as a gift from his family, I decided to have it fitted, went to A J Rule in Somerton Somerset who was an ex Purdey stocker and gunsmith, I was surprised when he brought out an O/U try gun, which he adjusted to suit me, and then altered my gun to the same measurments, when I collected the gun it felt so perfect I was amazed, I have to say that since then my shooting improved dramaticly, it wasnt a cheap job I think it cost £185+vat, but to me it has been worth every penny.

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21 minutes ago, howzat said:

Was very lucky to be given an almost new Beretta Silver pigeon 12 bore,the property of a dear friend who died suddenly from a heart attack, as I had it as a gift from his family, I decided to have it fitted, went to A J Rule in Somerton Somerset who was an ex Purdey stocker and gunsmith, I was surprised when he brought out an O/U try gun, which he adjusted to suit me, and then altered my gun to the same measurments, when I collected the gun it felt so perfect I was amazed, I have to say that since then my shooting improved dramaticly, it wasnt a cheap job I think it cost £185+vat, but to me it has been worth every penny.

Worth every penny!:good:

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Another interesting post;

I have had two guns fitted to me - by two different gun fitters;

  1. 1 - A Beretta SO 6 - which was a success, but has become to heavy for me to enjoy using on a game shoot as I have got older.  getting adequate cast at the comb was a problem due to the pistol grip.
  2. An AyA No 1 - which was a second hand purchase and was altered - and remains a favourite. 
  3. I have also had two English guns which were bought as ' a good fit' not so much fitted as mildly 'tweaked' as I have aged.

Interestingly - when my guns are side by side in the cabinet, the stock dimensions are all near identical.  As a lightly built 60+ whose shooting usually involves a good walk with a relatively little shooting - and at very 'sensible' ranges  - I favour light guns and light loads.

 

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2 hours ago, howzat said:

Was very lucky to be given an almost new Beretta Silver pigeon 12 bore,the property of a dear friend who died suddenly from a heart attack, as I had it as a gift from his family, I decided to have it fitted, went to A J Rule in Somerton Somerset who was an ex Purdey stocker and gunsmith, I was surprised when he brought out an O/U try gun, which he adjusted to suit me, and then altered my gun to the same measurments, when I collected the gun it felt so perfect I was amazed, I have to say that since then my shooting improved dramaticly, it wasnt a cheap job I think it cost £185+vat, but to me it has been worth every penny.

£185 + VAT is great value, an investment in years of shooting

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2 hours ago, howzat said:

Was very lucky to be given an almost new Beretta Silver pigeon 12 bore,the property of a dear friend who died suddenly from a heart attack, as I had it as a gift from his family, I decided to have it fitted, went to A J Rule in Somerton Somerset who was an ex Purdey stocker and gunsmith, I was surprised when he brought out an O/U try gun, which he adjusted to suit me, and then altered my gun to the same measurments, when I collected the gun it felt so perfect I was amazed, I have to say that since then my shooting improved dramaticly, it wasnt a cheap job I think it cost £185+vat, but to me it has been worth every penny.

That is less than 1000 game cartridges, depends on how many cartridges you shoot in a year, but, you will certainly save that in a short space of time.

I had my Westley Richards fitted by the makers in the late 1970's. Just a 'try gun' and a pattern plate was all that the stock fitter used. I have never shot so well with any gun ever since. It is used solely for game due to its weight of 6lbs 2ozs. and was left handed when I bought it. 

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