Time for independence?

[Konor]

8 minutes ago, button said:

Can you explain how an independent Scotland will be funded? This is the key question and yet no credible solution is put forward. NS keeps talking about increased borrowing powers, how is this to be repaid? Pretty fundemental I would say, if there is indyref 2 before putting a cross in Yes I'd ensure this is pretty clear, actually forget that do they know the currency that would be used yet? 

The plan has more holes in it than a big block of holey cheese

So you are saying you have no confidence in your own country and consider yourself and Scotland incapable of being independent.

 

[johnphilip]

7 minutes ago, Konor said:

So you are saying you have no confidence in your own country and consider yourself and Scotland incapable of being independent.

 

Can you cost these basic things that would need sorting 

Scotland own currency  . How much to set it up 

Borders set up between Scotland  and England  , how much would that cost 

Do you understand how much traffic  moves between the two countries  in anyone day . Stopping of each vehicle,  passports  paperwork for goods moving between countries .

Having to go to a bank everytime you want to go to the other country  to get currency for that country . 

People living in Scotland and working just over the borders  England,  and visa versa .

When you have worked them out I will give you another list .

Can you see its just a dream they have , not a reality  it won't work . 

Wee nippy asked Boris to keep the furlow money going a little longer . 

If she was  independent  were would this money come from , she hates Westminster  but will take handouts .

[Konor]

3 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Can you cost these basic things that would need sorting 

Scotland own currency  . How much to set it up 

Borders set up between Scotland  and England  , how much would that cost 

Do you understand how much traffic  moves between the two countries  in anyone day . Stopping of each vehicle,  passports  paperwork for goods moving between countries .

Having to go to a bank everytime you want to go to the other country  to get currency for that country . 

People living in Scotland and working just over the borders  England,  and visa versa .

When you have worked them out I will give you another list .

Can you see its just a dream they have , not a reality  it won't work . 

Wee nippy asked Boris to keep the furlow money going a little longer . 

If she was  independent  were would this money come from , she hates Westminster  but will take handouts .

No I can’t cost them for you I have better things to do with my time than spend time answering all your questions .Why don’t you do some googling and enlighten yourself the information is freely available or are you not independent enough to do that for yourself.

Should you dislike living in an independent Scotland if it comes to pass you would be free to move over the border into England if you think that would be an improvement.

[button]

45 minutes ago, Konor said:

So you are saying you have no confidence in your own country and consider yourself and Scotland incapable of being independent.

 

Let's turn this around, judging by what you asked you do

I respect that, explain to me how its funded? Check out the BBC website and read what's happened with Bifab, here is the link

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-54630628

45 minutes ago, Konor said:

So you are saying you have no confidence in your own country and consider yourself and Scotland incapable of being independent.

 

In short.....yes

Edited October 21, 2020 by button

[Konor]

9 minutes ago, button said:

Let's turn this around, judging by what you asked you do

I respect that, explain to me how its funded? Check out the BBC website and read what's happened with Bifab, here is the link

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-54630628

In short.....yes

Fortunately others do have confidence in their own country and in themselves.

[markm]

Yet again, the Scottish fail to answer any questions (default answer “I’m to busy”)

 

Just like the SNP.

[button]

9 minutes ago, Konor said:

Fortunately others do have confidence in their own country and in themselves.

Good  explain how an independent Scotland will be funded, I genuinely want to know or are you saying you would take the leap without actually knowing the answer? If so good luck  you will need it!

[Konor]

4 minutes ago, markm said:

Yet again, the Scottish fail to answer any questions (default answer “I’m to busy”)

 

Just like the SNP.

I think I have said a great deal more than you though. Perhaps you should go back and read over it. I’m not prepared to invest time in answering multiple posters and as I have already stated information is freely available on the internet or does that not satisfy your need for an argument.

”Just like the SNP”  Hopefully ,proud of my country and willing to work hard for it. 

6 minutes ago, button said:

Good  explain how an independent Scotland will be funded, I genuinely want to know or are you saying you would take the leap without actually knowing the answer? If so good luck  you will need it!

If you genuinely want to know make the effort to find out 

[SpringDon]

1 hour ago, Konor said:

I would say Scotland’s interests would include the best interests of anyone living or working in Scotland.

Ok but I’m a bit lost as to how those interests are so different to anyone living or working in Northumberland.

[button]

8 minutes ago, Konor said:

I think I have said a great deal more than you though. Perhaps you should go back and read over it. I’m not prepared to invest time in answering multiple posters and as I have already stated information is freely available on the internet or does that not satisfy your need for an argument.

”Just like the SNP”  Hopefully ,proud of my country and willing to work hard for it. 

If you genuinely want to know make the effort to find out 

Surely by reading my posts I dont believe it can therefore I will not be wasting anytime looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, come to think of it judging by your answers you dont think it can either, if you did you would have shared so after all may be we have found something we agree on, the essential requirement for independence is missing! If you work it out please share

[Konor]

50 minutes ago, button said:

Surely by reading my posts I dont believe it can therefore I will not be wasting anytime looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, come to think of it judging by your answers you dont think it can either, if you did you would have shared so after all may be we have found something we agree on, the essential requirement for independence is missing! If you work it out please share

Are you denying the existence of a Scottish economy?

Do you think it is necessary for Scotland to discover gold mines before it can pay its way in the world?

Scots pride ,work ethic and innovation will see it prosper. It just takes a bit more gumption than you are demonstrating.

[Gordon R]

Konor, I have to say that your posts have a childlike quality. They say a lot, but say nothing of any substance. You ask others to Google how Scotland's economy would flourish. It isn't on Google, because it can't happen. 

Others have pointed out the flaws in what you say, but you resort to a belief that Scots will prevail, whatever the obstacles. I too believe in the Scots, who can be very inventive, but the harsh reality is that they will struggle to be self sufficient. Take away the subsidy and replace it with what? Oil - not yours. Tourism - Krankie seems to discourage visitors. Shooting - Krankie wants to abolish.

Stop being lazy, asking others to do your work. 

I expect a "Strong for Scotland" retort, containing no facts. Please don't disappoint me.

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, henry d said:

 

Probably the same as bojo and Brexit, but that's another topic.

Don't worry, most of your predictions for negative consequences of brexit have already been proven baseless and I'm sure most of the rest of them will to. 

Brexit is looking likely to be a roaring success, you can thank us brexiteers for having the bottle to see it through when it all pays off. 

[Konor]

41 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Konor, I have to say that your posts have a childlike quality. They say a lot, but say nothing of any substance. You ask others to Google how Scotland's economy would flourish. It isn't on Google, because it can't happen. 

Others have pointed out the flaws in what you say, but you resort to a belief that Scots will prevail, whatever the obstacles. I too believe in the Scots, who can be very inventive, but the harsh reality is that they will struggle to be self sufficient. Take away the subsidy and replace it with what? Oil - not yours. Tourism - Krankie seems to discourage visitors. Shooting - Krankie wants to abolish.

Stop being lazy, asking others to do your work. 

I expect a "Strong for Scotland" retort, containing no facts. Please don't disappoint me.

All I have read is generalisation and predictable insult of Nicola Sturgeon masquerading as political comment. Oil not ours? Have you read the GERS figures for Scottish oil and gas revenue or Scotland’s export figures?

Tourism ? Well during a pandemic what would anyone expect. The Northern Isles are keen not to encourage any tourists on to the islands as the high average age of residents and the lack of facilities should there be an outbreak probably justifies that caution. There are no shortage of camper vans travelling around mainland Scotland though and the North Coast 500 was at saturation level. Skye does not have sufficient infrastructure to cope with the demands of tourists so there’s no shortage there either.Your childlike assertion that Nicola Sturgeon seems to discourage tourists is at odds with the facts and your even more childlike labelling of her as Krankie seriously undermines your credibility.
Your assertion that she wishes to abolish shooting contrasts with her acknowledged need to encourage more deer to be shot by recreational stalkers to control their increasing numbers or the free access to the foreshore to wildfowl.

Your assertion that “I am asking others to do my work” is comical Johnphilip demands I answer a barrage of questions he may or may not know the answer to then states he has more after that Get Lost if he has questions needing an answer then let him look them up.

Do you honestly believe Scots are living off hand outs from England ? And who are you to judge whether Scots are capable of being self sufficient, a little englander pining for the trappings of the empire long lost.

You disappoint yourself with your arrogant manner and your derogatory tone.
Exports 2017 £81.4 bn 

[12gauge82]

I've got to say, I find some posts on this thread rather distasteful, people are free to vote for whoever they want and for whatever they want. Like my erlier post says, I be very disappointed if Scotland chose to leave the UK, but in a truly free country, just as brexit should be a decision for people of the UK, it must be a decision for the Scots, if they choose to leave, we should help them to prosper as best we can. All that said, I do find the SNP have double standards at times, I don't understand why they want to be ruled by Europe and leave the UK (my guess is they're using it as an excuse to argue a need to leave, if that's true they shouldn't be meddling in such an important issue for the UK for their own ends) and they agreed to a "once in a generation referendum" on independence, which they lost, I do feel they should stick to that and I'm sure there's many Scott's who voted to remain part of the UK who would agree, but again, it is an issue for Scotland and its people and not me. 

[Nuke]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't understand why they want to be ruled by Europe and leave the UK.

I think that one is easy, they dislike being ruled by England more than by Europe.

/Markus

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, johnphilip said:

If she was  independent  were would this money come from , she hates Westminster  but will take handouts .

She hates the English, it's her main reason for being and sadly her greatest selling point.

[Konor]

Is it anti English to hope for an independent government focused on Scotland’s best interests ?Is it anti Scottish to have politicians focus on the best interests of England ? 
The personalisation of politics is detrimental to the positivity expressed in the wish to improve both countries well being.

The name calling is divisive and diversionary as it is intended to be.

If you think the desire to wish the best for Scotland and bring that about by having an independent government is motivated by hate for the English you are missing the point completely.

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, Konor said:

Is it anti English to hope for an independent government focused on Scotland’s best interests ?Is it anti Scottish to have politicians focus on the best interests of England ? 
The personalisation of politics is detrimental to the positivity expressed in the wish to improve both countries well being.

The name calling is divisive and diversionary as it is intended to be.

If you think the desire to wish the best for Scotland and bring that about by having an independent government is motivated by hate for the English you are missing the point completely.

I would be more than happy if Scottish MPs couldn't vote on matters in England and vise versa, but if Scotland has to have independence for that to happen then I can't see it happening,  because despite all you've said I can't see how Scotland pay for it.

Have you noticed your the only Scot fighting your corner? It could be that others reading this don't care, cant be bothered with the usual arguments or agree with what others are saying,  it won't work and the aim is freedom from English rule at any cost.

[button]

6 hours ago, Konor said:

All I have read is generalisation and predictable insult of Nicola Sturgeon masquerading as political comment. Oil not ours? Have you read the GERS figures for Scottish oil and gas revenue or Scotland’s export figures?

Tourism ? Well during a pandemic what would anyone expect. The Northern Isles are keen not to encourage any tourists on to the islands as the high average age of residents and the lack of facilities should there be an outbreak probably justifies that caution. There are no shortage of camper vans travelling around mainland Scotland though and the North Coast 500 was at saturation level. Skye does not have sufficient infrastructure to cope with the demands of tourists so there’s no shortage there either.Your childlike assertion that Nicola Sturgeon seems to discourage tourists is at odds with the facts and your even more childlike labelling of her as Krankie seriously undermines your credibility.
Your assertion that she wishes to abolish shooting contrasts with her acknowledged need to encourage more deer to be shot by recreational stalkers to control their increasing numbers or the free access to the foreshore to wildfowl.

Your assertion that “I am asking others to do my work” is comical Johnphilip demands I answer a barrage of questions he may or may not know the answer to then states he has more after that Get Lost if he has questions needing an answer then let him look them up.

Do you honestly believe Scots are living off hand outs from England ? And who are you to judge whether Scots are capable of being self sufficient, a little englander pining for the trappings of the empire long lost.

You disappoint yourself with your arrogant manner and your derogatory tone.
Exports 2017 £81.4 bn 

Exports in 2018 were £85 billion of which £51.2m were to the rest of the UK, only £33.8m were to the EU

 

[henry d]

7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Brexit is looking likely to be a roaring success, you can thank us brexiteers...

I will if the fishing isn't sold off, but I'm not holding my breath

[Demonic69]

Scotland's economy is now largely based on services. I know the firm I work for would, potentially, have to take several thousand jobs from Scotland should they leave (and had plans in place at the last indy ref). We've got a few large Government, MOD and financial contracts that stipulate UK resources only. Unless a very good deal was negotiated I can't imagine us being able to keep many of those Scots employed, I've got some very good friends and colleagues in/around Nairn and Inverness that would struggle to find similar employment.

Scotland could offer tax breaks - if they don't join the EU - but, thanks to the Living Wage, we're seeing it become less competitive to use Scottish resources. Once the UK is out of the EU England could offer those same tax breaks, with easier access to the financial hub, leading to a race to the bottom. With Scotland already costing so much more to run it would be difficult to stay competitive while offering Scots all of the benefits they take for granted today.

I don't see how Scots have different needs to anyone else in the UK, other than expecting more for free (prescriptions, university, Living Wage etc)

[AVB]

If Scotland wants independence then so be it. However, the split will make Brexit look like a walk in the park. The U.K. has operated as an independent nation for years and has the infrastructure to support itself. Scotland doesn’t - Central Bank, currency, armed forces, postal service, communications etc etc. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

If Scotland wants independence then so be it. However, the split will make Brexit look like a walk in the park. The U.K. has operated as an independent nation for years and has the infrastructure to support itself. Scotland doesn’t - Central Bank, currency, armed forces, postal service, communications etc etc. 

Oh I doubt they want to have to handle all of that stuff, they want independence lite!

[oowee]

There are many levels of independence. Rather than look at separate countries why not have some sort of confederation rather than a Union? The Union is unstable as it is and needs a more devolved structure going forward.