Brexit talks have collapsed

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I thought we'd already left. Deal or no deal doesn't matter to me personally. COVID has trumped everything anyway.

As I have asserted previously, I strongly suspect lots of Brexiteers will find a way to be unhappy either way, since a lot of them appear to need to be angry with something.

 

The problem is, the amount of politicians who have tried every trick in the book to block brexit, I and many others don't trust our politicians to not agree a "deal" that would be little different to remaining, which wouldn't be what was voted for, Thresa May tried it and was swiftly booted from the top spot. 

[bavarianbrit]

Well before I left the UK in 2002 I lived in Deal, Kent so I guess now I am a no deal man.🤣

[AVB]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

No it wasn't, the post was stating that consumers would pay VAT at source (EU VAT) and VAT and Import duty in the UK. That just simply isn't true.

"How will VAT on cross-border goods change?

When the UK leaves the EU VAT area, it will become a third country. This means that the way businesses manage VAT on goods and services exported and imported to/from the EU will change. Sellers will not charge VAT, but buyers will have to pay VAT to HMRC at the point of import (alongside any applicable customs duties)."

 

What it also failed to say was the UK will be completely in control of how much that VAT and imprt duty will be, providing we get away from the level playing field bull.

Doesn’t WTA define import duty? 

[wymberley]

This all seems to be getting very complex when in reality it's all perfectly straight-forward. The longer this wrangling goes on increases the chance of one side or the other giving away something that they would rather not have done. As the EU have been horse trading among themselves for centuries and by comparison we're  naive amateurs, it's odds on that'll be us. If, by some fluke it's not, then that mob will keep on nibbling away after they've signed on the dotted line until it's rectified in their favour. If we give way, we're not happy. If they do, then they won't be. So as there's no total ideal outcome that suits both sides, please stop wasting my money and simply get the hell out of it. Now.

[scouser]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

This all seems to be getting very complex when in reality it's all perfectly straight-forward. The longer this wrangling goes on increases the chance of one side or the other giving away something that they would rather not have done. As the EU have been horse trading among themselves for centuries and by comparison we're  naive amateurs, it's odds on that'll be us. If, by some fluke it's not, then that mob will keep on nibbling away after they've signed on the dotted line until it's rectified in their favour. If we give way, we're not happy. If they do, then they won't be. So as there's no total ideal outcome that suits both sides, please stop wasting my money and simply get the hell out of it. Now.

this is what i.m afraid of, lets just go back to what we did before we joined this circus.

[Raja Clavata]

11 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I've been active in the Mercedes owners Club website for many years. Hopefully offering advice and sharing views on things.

The last few years, it started slowly but grown to a tsunami of complaints about electrical problems and error messages that the main agents cant clear on modern cars. Its like they have overstretched  

So you're calling out the end of an entire national industry based on your experiences with Mercedes?

I have only "owned" one Mercedes (GLA which the wife used predominantly) which I consider to be a worse car than every single Ford I had owned in the preceding ten years (I was on a work scheme with two cars that were replaced every six months - so we are talking around 30+ instances of new models across the Ford brand in that time). 

Based on that experience I would be reluctant to go with Mercedes and all subsequent car purchases to date have been BMW, just placed orders for two more. But my experience doesn't mean Mercedes are finished, let alone the whole German car industry...

Coincidentally nearly all those Fords where built in Germany too although my latest order is coming from Turkey (since it's a minivan).

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The problem is, the amount of politicians who have tried every trick in the book to block brexit, I and many others don't trust our politicians to not agree a "deal" that would be little different to remaining, which wouldn't be what was voted for, Thresa May tried it and was swiftly booted from the top spot. 

I heard you the 30th time 😛 The point is many not happy also implies many neutral or happy and it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time. Again, I assert that in the case of many, it seems impossible to please them EVER.

1 hour ago, scouser said:

this is what i.m afraid of, lets just go back to what we did before we joined this circus.

But it's a very different world to then, some people consider me old and it was even before I existed.

[Vince Green]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So you're calling out the end of an entire national industry based on your experiences with Mercedes?

I didn't say anything of the sort, you asked me why we switched to Honda and I told you

[Raja Clavata]

47 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I didn't say anything of the sort, you asked me why we switched to Honda and I told you

"As somebody who has driven German cars for over 30 years I now recognise their day is over. " 

[oowee]

Blow jo says we are better off with a deal, the donkey party says a deal with the EU is easy, some said it will be the easiest deal we will ever do, some said leaving allows us to do deals with the rest of the world. 

Suggests under this govt we will be worse off, incapable of putting together the simple deals, and unlikely to do deals to our advantage anywhere else. Surely a sane person would not select this option. 

Sold down the river? 

Still time 🤞

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

I heard you the 30th time 😛 The point is many not happy also implies many neutral or happy and it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time. Again, I assert that in the case of many, it seems impossible to please them EVER.

 

No and I get the point about pleasing everyone, but the referendum was very clear on what we were voting to leave, I'll admit it was less clear on the specific consequences, but again they were clear it'd be terrible, the country still went ahead and voted to leave, so just like trump, if you lose, you must concede or democracy has totally failed and we're living in a dictatorship. You can't hold an election or referendum and refuse to carry out the result. 

[London Best]

Nicola did!

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, AVB said:

Doesn’t WTA define import duty? 

Only the maximum amount apparently.

"After the UK leaves the EU, it is free to set its own customs duty rates for imports subject to its commitments to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which set the maximum ceilings that can be applied by the UK after it becomes a full WTO member in its own right.

Today’s announcement of the UK tariff regime means that, in the event of a no-deal departure, goods entering the UK from both the EU and any other of the UK’s trading partners where no preferential trade arrangement is in place (e.g., the US, China, Canada, Taiwan, etc.) will be subject to these duties. The UK can set its own customs duty rates in such a scenario because, upon departure from the EU’s Customs Union and Common Customs Tariff, it does not need to keep the same rates of customs duties as those applied by the EU."

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Only the maximum amount apparently.

"After the UK leaves the EU, it is free to set its own customs duty rates for imports subject to its commitments to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which set the maximum ceilings that can be applied by the UK after it becomes a full WTO member in its own right.

Today’s announcement of the UK tariff regime means that, in the event of a no-deal departure, goods entering the UK from both the EU and any other of the UK’s trading partners where no preferential trade arrangement is in place (e.g., the US, China, Canada, Taiwan, etc.) will be subject to these duties. The UK can set its own customs duty rates in such a scenario because, upon departure from the EU’s Customs Union and Common Customs Tariff, it does not need to keep the same rates of customs duties as those applied by the EU."

Is it not the case that the same rate must be applied to all trading nations to avoid illegal preferential rates.

[Newbie to this]

I would think we would only have 1 set of import duties applied to all nations goods.

But we wil be able to set them duties as we see fit. Provided we don't exceed the maximum amounts set by the WTO.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Newbie to this

[enfieldspares]

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

Is it not the case that the same rate must be applied to all trading nations to avoid illegal preferential rates.

That is the devil in the detail. If we offered the EU tariff free cheese for example we'd also have to offer the same to American cheese. If we offered the EU tariff free poultry we'd also have to offer the same to Thailand.

[12gauge82]

22 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

That is the devil in the detail. If we offered the EU tariff free cheese for example we'd also have to offer the same to American cheese. If we offered the EU tariff free poultry we'd also have to offer the same to Thailand.

It's okay, we just won't trade with them. We buy 100 billion euros worth more from them than they buy from us. They will loose, not us. 

[Raja Clavata]

51 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's okay, we just won't trade with them. We buy 100 billion euros worth more from them than they buy from us. They will loose, not us. 

So what's the alternative source of the 100 billion euros of goods and at what tariffs? I think you'll find we both lose which is why the whole thing is actually in no-ones interest overall. Sounds pretty terrible to me.

[B725]

Why don't we just start making things in Great Britain again.

[London Best]

Just now, B725 said:

Why don't we just start making things in Great Britain again.

When we did it made us the greatest nation in the World.

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So what's the alternative source of the 100 billion euros of goods and at what tariffs? I think you'll find we both lose which is why the whole thing is actually in no-ones interest overall. Sounds pretty terrible to me.

Yes your probably right but it's what was voted for and since the EU is making unreasonable demands, I.e demands no independent, free country would ever reasonably expect to sign up to, I don't see an alternative. It'll hurt the EU more than us anyway. 

[B725]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

When we did it made us the greatest nation in the World.

And if it had a union jack stuck on it you knew it was quality.

[Raja Clavata]

Sorry, but you're living in the past guys. Those days are gone and with the best will in the world, not coming back.

The reality of the world is that the likes of big German corporations are able to invest more money in new technology than our Government is able / willing to. Is it "fair", no but it's the sober reality.

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Yes your probably right but it's what was voted for and since the EU is making unreasonable demands, I.e demands no independent, free country would ever reasonably expect to sign up to, I don't see an alternative. It'll hurt the EU more than us anyway. 

And we shall reap what we have sowed.

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

And we shall reap what we have sowed.

As will the EU

[Fisheruk]

Let’s just get it done and move on.

[Jaymo]

53 minutes ago, B725 said:

And if it had a union jack stuck on it you knew it was quality.

You mean like BSA, Austin or British Leyland! Maybe Triumph too........

God help us if that’s the standards that you feel we should be striving for.