AVB Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 My eldest son works for a law firm and he was telling me about a case he is currently working on. Claim was for compensation against a NHS trust for a botched tooth extraction that left bits of tooth in. This caused further problems that the hospital neglected to follow up on. My son said it was a watertight case. Anyway the NHS trust denied liability and refused to settle. That was until the day of the court case when they agreed £900 compensation. The original claim was £1,500. Any ideas on the legal costs been racked up by my sons firm, external counsel and experts etc which of course the NHS trust will ultimately pay (although it will be negotiated a bit lower)? have a guess and I’ll reveal later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 £4500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaylor91 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 £7,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 You are not in the same universe let alone on the same planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossco89 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 £20k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) £25000 Edited December 9, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Oh!, c'mon chaps. He mentioned external counsel. It's got to be a six figure sum. I'll punt £250k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 140k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 £350000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 £120K. He said there are some NHS trusts who will never settle, or if they do it is at the very last minute, and costs them, or their insurance companies a fortune. It seems criminal to me that a public service should allow £120K of costs to be accrued (plus their own costs of course) for a claim of £900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, AVB said: or their insurance companies Many 'government bodies' effectively underwrite their own insurance. I don't know if that is the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 nhs has obviously cornered the market on hiring the most incompetent people available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 They should have just paid the person £2,500 to begin with. They always leave it to the last minute hoping the person drops out. It's old advice as if the person randomly drops out for no good reason then the solicitors can ask the person to pay their costs. It's only 'no win, no fee', if you take it all the way technically. As with most civil service types, no one in the NHS is bothered to change the system, despite it costing them so much, because it's not their money, so they don't really care. I was constantly raising issues with providers in the council, saying they're not providing what they are supposed to etc, and we are paying them public money, no one cared, no one did anything about it, and I got fed up of being the one constantly raising issues about stuff that never got resolved anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciurus Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 I think there is something very wrong with a system that allows a firm of solicitors to rack up of bill of £120k over a claim of £1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) Errrr that’s just not possible. Edit: Google: 1. Costs proportionality 2. Costs budgeting 3. CPR Part 27 costs recovery on pi claims under £1000 Edited December 9, 2020 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Mungler said: Errrr that’s just not possible. Edit: Google: 1. Costs proportionality 2. Costs budgeting 3. CPR Part 27 costs recovery on pi claims under £1000 Very interesting. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Mungler said: Errrr that’s just not possible. Edit: Google: 1. Costs proportionality 2. Costs budgeting 3. CPR Part 27 costs recovery on pi claims under £1000 Well I have no idea what that means so unless my son is telling me porkies, and I have no reason to believe he would, then something seems amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, AVB said: Well I have no idea what that means so unless my son is telling me porkies, and I have no reason to believe he would, then something seems amiss. I just relayed my this to my son who said ”CPR Part 27 for PI claims are fixed costs yes...but dental negligence comes under the clinical negligence bracket (so not fixed)...CN cases are multi track due to complexity.” That also means nothing to me. He also said that it was always accepted that this was a low value claim but the costs were driven by the defendants (NHS) behaviour which will be taken into account if it ends up going to court over the costs. He is confident he will get a high proportion of the £120K Edited December 9, 2020 by AVB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 It's ridiculous the waste the NHS has, more managers than ever, doing what? Claims are going up. I'm glad we have a health service but there is some very poor care around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 9 hours ago, AVB said: I just relayed my this to my son who said ”CPR Part 27 for PI claims are fixed costs yes...but dental negligence comes under the clinical negligence bracket (so not fixed)...CN cases are multi track due to complexity.” That also means nothing to me. He also said that it was always accepted that this was a low value claim but the costs were driven by the defendants (NHS) behaviour which will be taken into account if it ends up going to court over the costs. He is confident he will get a high proportion of the £120K I can envisage a perfect storm on those facts; slam dunk on liability but liability is then contested, throw in a nice early Claimant’s Part 36 offer and total defendant intransigence. If I were the NHS I’d sue whoever was providing me with the legal service in those circumstances. Defendant PI work isn’t easy but the safe course is a sensible view of cost and risk at the earliest stages. If you can determine day 1 there’s a problem then chucking £1k on the table early shifts the litigation risk. And yes, we’re all paying for this. Ask your son to take it to a detailed assessment so it gets reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, Mungler said: Defendant PI work isn’t easy but the safe course is a sensible view of cost and risk at the earliest stages. If you can determine day 1 there’s a problem then chucking £1k on the table early shifts the litigation And there lies the problem. He said some NHS trusts are reasonable in that respect but others just refuse to accept liability regardless of the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) That’s the last penny I will donate to captain Tom Moore & others if that is how the NHS is run 😤 Edited December 10, 2020 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 I'd HATE TO THINK .. My sister in law was involved in a long drawn out case . Which was 100% the right thing to do as the Dr involved carried out a procedure & operation that should never of been done ... she died twice on the table .. and has been left with massive physical disabilities .... the case lasted 5yrs she had numerous visits to harley street specialists and consultations with 2 professors.. so stays in hotels travelling expenses multiple case reports from external specialists . Home visits ect .... the nhs settled out of courts for a £700k+ sum plus costs .... the Dr who cocked up was struck off as all the professors condemned the action he took and he was reported the gmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water (to reference another case), mistakes are unfortunate and can be devastating for those involved but for each mistake how many hundreds (thousands?) of successful outcomes are there? This seems to be a legal/managerial problem not an nhs care problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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