10 years if lying about where you travel from - draconian?

[AVB]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

This clip nails is for me:

 

As an aside, the 10 year nonsense was designed to deflect media attention away from the review of the mess that was the supply chain contract fiasco at the start of lockdown 1.  Well I hope it is anyway because it is beyond moronic on any analysis and if anyone on here ever thought it was a runner, well I am afraid to say that you are without doubt a total idiot. 

 

I let out a ‘whoop whoop’ when I heard this yesterday. I would be interested to know what the lockdown fans on PW think of his comments and when they think we should be exiting lockdown’

 

I loved the bit when he said “well you don’t seem too keen to exit” 

[blackbird]

At last a politician with a brain 👍

[islandgun]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

This clip nails is for me:

 

As an aside, the 10 year nonsense was designed to deflect media attention away from the review of the mess that was the supply chain contract fiasco at the start of lockdown 1.  Well I hope it is anyway because it is beyond moronic on any analysis and if anyone on here ever thought it was a runner, well I am afraid to say that you are without doubt a total idiot. 

 

Well the man didn't hold back..😄 wouldn't it be nice if other politicians said it like it is

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, AVB said:

I let out a ‘whoop whoop’ when I heard this yesterday. I would be interested to know what the lockdown fans on PW think of his comments and when they think we should be exiting lockdown’

 

I loved the bit when he said “well you don’t seem too keen to exit” 

Absolutely correct. Matt Hancock has completely lost the plot. I find him an insidious person and he comes across as someone who couldn't lie straight in bed. 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Absolutely correct. Matt Hancock has completely lost the plot. I find him an insidious person and he comes across as someone who couldn't lie straight in bed. 

To give him the benefit of doubt I won’t accuse him of being dishonest but yes he has completely lost the plot as have a few in Government at the moment. 

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

He’s hit the centre of the board right there alright.

Without a doubt! 

[Pangolin]

21 hours ago, millrace said:

Have just seen an interview with Charles Walker con mp.....sky news but clip was on you tube....

An mp actually saying what people are thinking hopefully more are thinking along the same lines and this government gets rained back in......

Sir Desmond Swayne has been doing the same.

[Pangolin]

4 hours ago, AVB said:

I let out a ‘whoop whoop’ when I heard this yesterday. I would be interested to know what the lockdown fans on PW think of his comments and when they think we should be exiting lockdown’

 

I loved the bit when he said “well you don’t seem too keen to exit” 

Same, loved that bit when he give her some stick.

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Absolutely correct. Matt Hancock has completely lost the plot. I find him an insidious person and he comes across as someone who couldn't lie straight in bed. 

Did you see the clip of him over the school dinners vote with Piers Morgan, always smirking, horrible little s*****

[12gauge82]

45 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

Same, loved that bit when he give her some stick.

Did you see the clip of him over the school dinners vote with Piers Morgan, always smirking, horrible little s*****

Yes I find him the most insincere politician I've seen, and that's saying something. 

[matone]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:50, **** said:

Well said. The only word that I would change is 'maintain'. 'Regain' might be more appropriate.

Yes,you`re correct!!!

[old man]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:50, **** said:

Well said. The only word that I would change is 'maintain'. 'Regain' might be more appropriate.

That will never happen, too much money being creamed off as allowed by the constant state of chaos?

On 10/02/2021 at 13:53, Vince Green said:

London ITV news at 1.30. Two girls interviewed getting off a plane from Brazil this morning. They will have to go into quarantine if they came in tomorrow but today they won't

Where have you been?     Brazil

What were you doing there?     Holiday !!

what happened to essential travel only?

What are the chances that these two are going to self isolate now they are here? 

 

As much chance as finding a trustworthy politician?

[Dave-G]

On 11/02/2021 at 20:03, Pangolin said:

Same, loved that bit when he give her some stick.

Did you see the clip of him over the school dinners vote with Piers Morgan, always smirking, horrible little s*****

I imagine that particular smirking was more a case of playing mouthy Morgan at his own game of attempting to score journalistic points off anyone to further his career.

[Jim Neal]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:31, ferguson_tom said:

The results are very clear; close the schools and lots of workplaces and the numbers fall dramatically. Wrongdoers will still be breaking the rules so don't believe the government rhetoric that they are the ones to blame for this pandemic its no ones fault no matter how hard they try and shift the blame. 

You're talking absolute rubbish!!!!  What clarity, illustrated by what set of data backs up your above statement?

Schools are not the hives of infection some people presume them to be.  The majority of workplaces have the appropriate measures in place to 'reasonably' mitigate against infection.  Study the daily cases graph for the UK:

Can you see where the cases dipped as a result of the November lockdown in England?  Schools were open at that time.  Most work places were open.

However, PUBS WERE CLOSED AND SOCIAL GATHERINGS WERE PREVENTED.

December 4th, the day lockdown lifted, was also the day cases started rising again.  Stupid people were once again legally permitted to be stupid.  You say the spread of covid is nobody's fault?  Whilst in the same breath blaming schools and people who go to work??!  You're having a laugh aren't you?

Kids haven't been at school since the 18th of December.  Two months ago.  We'd have stamped covid out by now if it was the kids spreading it about at school!

Do you see the correlations?  Can you interpret factual data?

What a poorly thought out out comment you've made above, based on zero evidence.

 

[243deer]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

December 4th, the day lockdown lifted, was also the day cases started rising again.

This rather flies in the face of your argument. Are you saying that cases rise instantly the moment lockdown is lifted as this would suggest an immediate lowering of cases the day that lockdown comes into effect.

So far the exact period between infection and symptoms has not been established and so any direct correlation between the graph above and the effect or not of lockdowns cannot be statistically proven.

I can equally hypothesise that the graph above really shows the effect of folk being inside more for the winter.

It could equally indicate the lack of more targeted ventilation in Supermarkets, the place where most folk seem to ignore the 2m rule and in my opinion the place where covid is most likely to be spread.

There are a multitude of reasons why infection rates will increase and decrease which folk, especially politicians and the medical profession, are aware of but for some reason only lockdowns are being offered as a solution. 

The graph above still shows a huge number of daily cases despite the lockdown and vaccination program, what folk have to ask themselves is why?

 

[Jim Neal]

12 hours ago, 243deer said:

This rather flies in the face of your argument. Are you saying that cases rise instantly the moment lockdown is lifted as this would suggest an immediate lowering of cases the day that lockdown comes into effect.

With respect, I don't think it does contradict my argument at all.  Yes, theoretically you'd expect there will be a number of days lag between lockdown lifting and cases beginning to rise again - but only IF people were doing as they were asked and not socialising right up until the end of lockdown.  However I'd suspect one of the main reasons cases began to rise again at that point is that people knew lockdown was coming to an end and started "getting back to normal" some days in advance.

With the stats to look back on, when each of the three national lockdowns were imposed, cases continued to rise for a short period (or actually a month in the first wave).  I'd suggest part of that is incubation period but a bigger part is peoples' persistent defiance of the rules.  Obviously a big part of it is also testing and reporting, this is always going to skew the picture.

The link between lockdown starting & cases dropping is a completely different dynamic compared to lockdown lifting and cases rising.

13 hours ago, 243deer said:

...in Supermarkets, the place where most folk seem to ignore the 2m rule and in my opinion the place where covid is most likely to be spread

ONS death stats to 28/12/20 for Retail cashiers & checkout assistants tell us 26 people with this occupation had died "with" covid up to that point in time.  There's no available figure I can find stating the total number of people who work in that sector but you can imagine how many supermarkets there are in the country and how many people must be employed in them.  Just think how many people the checkout staff come into close contact with during one shift.  26 deaths makes it seem like a pretty safe job to me, so I think it's a reasonable assumption that supermarkets are not hotspots for infection.

[243deer]

So we have a complete difference of opinion as to how the statistics might be interpreted. Completely normal with wishy washy statistics, folk see what they want to see when specific questions are not asked and answered.

You have absolutely no idea at all how many folk are infected in Supermarkets, nor do you have any idea at all how the interaction with schoolchildren is affecting infection rates, nor do I.

If you think about how many folk have been infected and continue to be infected that have been completely following the rules how do you explain this as your answer will be the silver bullet that everyone needs.

We needed this answer a year ago but of course we do not have the answer.

 

[ferguson_tom]

On 15/02/2021 at 01:33, Jim Neal said:

You're talking absolute rubbish!!!!  What clarity, illustrated by what set of data backs up your above statement?

 

 You say the spread of covid is nobody's fault?  Whilst in the same breath blaming schools and people who go to work??!  You're having a laugh aren't you?

Your graph proves my point exactly, the November lockdown saw a drop of roughly 35% whereas the current lockdown with the same rules plus shutting the schools in January saw a 70% drop over a similar time period.

If the rule breakers were having such a massive effect as the news makes you believe then the you would not be seeing such a dramatic drop from either lockdowns. My point was even people following the rules are spreading this so pointing fingers helps no one.

 

[Jim Neal]

4 hours ago, ferguson_tom said:

Your graph proves my point exactly, the November lockdown saw a drop of roughly 35% whereas the current lockdown with the same rules plus shutting the schools in January saw a 70% drop over a similar time period.

No it doesn't!  The graph disproves your point!  Look at it again.

The schools didn't shut in January, they broke up on December 18th and there were 28,000 reported daily new cases on that date.  Daily new cases peaked on January 8th at 68,000.  That's a 243% increase in cases over a 21 day period after the last day kids were in school, which went up in an almost linear manner.  If we're assuming that incubation time until symptoms + time to get a test = around 1 week, how do you account for the 2nd and 3rd weeks of that 3 week period where cases were rising sharply?

Furthermore.  When schools closed for the first lockdown, the daily case rate was already levelling out.  When schools opened up again in the first week of June, cases were falling and continued to do so right up until the schools broke up again for summer holidays.

So again, how do you conclude from looking at the figures that schools are a major contributor to infection rates?  There is simply no data to back up your statement.

15 hours ago, 243deer said:

You have absolutely no idea at all how many folk are infected in Supermarkets

No, but what we DO know is that there have been 26 covid-related deaths of retail cashiers & checkout assistants.  Relatively, that number is very small compared to some other occupations.  So what that tells us is that there simply cannot be covid dripping from the ceiling in your local Tesco, consuming every wretched soul who enters.  The checkout staff would be annihilated, they're in close proximity to dozens of people every shift and they're in the store breathing in the air for the whole time.

Look at it from another angle, by way of contrast: hospitals. Searching the death stats from ONS linked to above, nurses alone (not doctors or any other ancillary staff) rack up roughly 400 deaths.  They're wearing the best PPE available and they take it SERIOUSLY because they know what they're dealing with.  Yet still hundreds have died.

So how, if supermarkets are rife with covid, can only 26 retail cashiers & checkout assistants (and not all of that 26 will be supermarket workers, the group is too broadly titled) have died with just a bit of cloth over their chops to "protect" them?

Logic seems to have deserted people.  The stats show that supermarkets are not dangerous.

Picking on schools and supermarkets is just too easy, lazy and obvious.  It's tabloid headline fodder.

[Vince Green]

I see they caught four at Birmingham airport lying about where they had come from already

 Four fined £10,000 for not declaring they were in 'red-list' country | Metro News

[Gu5]

They flew in via a country not on the ‘red list’, so isn’t it fair to assume if they are infected they will have passed it onto a plane full of passengers from a non-red list country?  Meaning that the whole plane full of people should now quarantine too, or are these people now free to travel around the UK spreading what they don’t know they have?  
This really isn’t going to work if all countries aren’t following the same rules. 

[Mungler]

Those fines won’t stand up to a judicial review. It’s a bit of advertising in half term week.

[udderlyoffroad]

15 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Logic seems to have deserted people.  The stats show that supermarkets are not dangerous.

Picking on schools and supermarkets is just too easy, lazy and obvious.  It's tabloid headline fodder.

Indeed; and even if they were, just what else do people propose?  The nation needs to eat, and other than some kind of dig for victory campaign, supermarkets are where they get their food.

I think the problem is, lockdown enthusiasts  visit these places and are forced to mingle with people different from them, including those legitimately or otherwise claiming exemption from mask wearing.

And before someone suggests it, there isn't the infrastructure to support some kind of nationalised grocery delivery service. Doubtless somebody will mention ration books soon, and being grateful for what you're given.

[Mungler]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Indeed; and even if they were, just what else do people propose?  The nation needs to eat, and...

We’re soon going to find out that the nation needs human contact, kids need schools not just for academic learning and it’s all bubbling up.

Anyone else seen and sensed the tension - everyone anxious and at the top of the curtains and ready to explode? 

[AVB]

21 minutes ago, Mungler said:

We’re soon going to find out that the nation needs human contact, kids need schools not just for academic learning and it’s all bubbling up.

Anyone else seen and sensed the tension - everyone anxious and at the top of the curtains and ready to explode? 

My wife is on the verge of losing it. A couple of her friend have recently gone onto anti depressives. Might not be covid related and just as much age but it ain’t pleasant. 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Anyone else seen and sensed the tension - everyone anxious and at the top of the curtains and ready to explode? 

Definitely.  The constant shifting goalposts don't help matters either.

The idea that this will carry on till July; I just don't know what planet these people inhabit.  Something will give soon, preferably without bloodshed.

Also, hopefully before we lose yet more people to preventable diseases and suicide.