Shooting incident in Plymouth

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

so we can find with a few clicks this chap was unfit to have firearms yet the police failed to do so if the law suits to follow this even see a court with such wilful utter negligence i will be stunned 

But the Police and there sub departments can do no wrong!  

23 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

What on earth makes you leap to that conclusion?

It sounds far more likely its another nutter disillusioned with society who has taken his shortcomings out on everyone around him and even that's a wild guess,but imo a far more likely one, with at least a few facts to base it on. Unless I've missed something? 

That's how I see it at the moment!  

[toontastic]

36 minutes ago, clangerman said:

so we can find with a few clicks this chap was unfit to have firearms yet the police failed to do so if the law suits to follow this even see a court with such wilful utter negligence i will be stunned 

So why didn't you warn the police about him

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, toontastic said:

So why didn't you warn the police about him

had no reason to look a random stranger up until the police gave him the means to kill five people 

[villaman]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/plymouth-mass-shooting-gun-control-law-dunblane-b1902605.html

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, villaman said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/plymouth-mass-shooting-gun-control-law-dunblane-b1902605.html

He is unlikely to be rational, given what he has been through!!!!!!!

[toontastic]

14 minutes ago, clangerman said:

had no reason to look a random stranger up until the police gave him the means to kill five people 

The problem with you is you're a cop hater pure and simple. If information had been released that a special police team were profiling peoples suitability to have a sgc via their social media presence you'd be the first person to whinge they should stop invading people's privacy, get a proper job and catch criminals. Now that this has happened and his social media presence gives many clues to his persona you're whinging that they didn't pick up on it. 

[bruno22rf]

I find it somewhat amazing that you can sit next to someone in a pub and within 5 minutes know that they are not normal, not quite the full ticket, sandwich short of a picnic etc, yet a complete ring piece like this can slip through the net, somebody, somewhere deserves to be paraded in front of the relatives of those murdered, and plead his case for forgiveness, I cannot begin to comprehend or understand the hell that some families are experiencing tonight and for the rest of their lives, you have my deepest condolences. 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

I find it somewhat amazing that you can sit next to someone in a pub and within 5 minutes know that they are not normal, not quite the full ticket, sandwich short of a picnic etc

Yes, sometimes you can.  However - sometimes I don't think you can - you can be with someone for some while (e.g. days as a new work colleague or acquaintance etc) before you realise they hold 'odd views'.  It only shows when they begin to know you well enough for the guard to slip a bit.

7 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

I cannot begin to comprehend or understand the hell that some families are experiencing tonight and for the rest of their lives, you have my deepest condolences.

100% agree.

[clangerman]

40 minutes ago, toontastic said:

The problem with you is you're a cop hater pure and simple. If information had been released that a special police team were profiling peoples suitability to have a sgc via their social media presence you'd be the first person to whinge they should stop invading people's privacy, get a proper job and catch criminals. Now that this has happened and his social media presence gives many clues to his persona you're whinging that they didn't pick up on it. 

one you don’t even know me and two considering the family’s grief your attempt to wind up on a thread like this is more than disrespectful 

[henry d]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Does this list include anger issues and murderous thoughts? Whenever people mention a "bit of weed", they tend to play down the side effects and claim it is harmless.

That depends on the context, one young person I worked with had a knife under his pillow as his house had been broken into by dealers owed money by his parents on several occasions, due to his parents lifestyle he became more misogynistic, he was also being bullied at school and was smoking copious amounts of weed and experimenting with K so it all came to a head when he drew a knife in a playground scuffle, he ended up being placed in secure accommodation in the south of England. 

So I would say yes, but it takes more than just the weed but it certainly doesn't help due to the greater THC content of weed today compared with 30 YA.

[toontastic]

7 minutes ago, clangerman said:

one you don’t even know me and two considering the family’s grief your attempt to wind up on a thread like this is more than disrespectful 

If anything is disgraceful its you using this thread to continue your hatred of the police. Others are critical of what happened but you  always have an obvious hatred in your agenda. Criticism is welcome but try not to let your apparent hatred take over threads. 

[mel b3]

39 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

I find it somewhat amazing that you can sit next to someone in a pub and within 5 minutes know that they are not normal, not quite the full ticket, sandwich short of a picnic etc, yet a complete ring piece like this can slip through the net, somebody, somewhere deserves to be paraded in front of the relatives of those murdered, and plead his case for forgiveness, I cannot begin to comprehend or understand the hell that some families are experiencing tonight and for the rest of their lives, you have my deepest condolences. 

That's the problem.  You can't spot everyone that has issues.  You can spot the obvious ones that are unstable , but many will hide it well , even from the people that know them well.

I've had several friends and acquaintances over the years , that have taken their own life . With the exception of one of them , you would never have known that they had a care in the world.

[Shadowchaser]

3 hours ago, Rob85 said:

You could wind up eventually with the same system we have in Northern Ireland where we don't have a shotgun certificate, everything right down to sub 12lb/ft airguns are classed as firearms and held on a firearms licence. Not that the type of licence matters in this case, just the fact that he was unhinged and allowed to have his certificate back 

Interesting.  Has that been a reasonable system?  How do regular shotgun users (those who just want a shotgun for clays, vermin etc) find it? 

I think the chap on the other forum is just one of those who would be horrified if someone turned up with a semi auto at a game shoot.

One of the points raised was that you don't need a third shot, an O/U will do the job. 

The great thing about gas operated semi autos (not pumps) is the reduction in felt recoil.  If they wanted 3 shots and above to move to section 1, then I hope they'd allow semis to continue on section 2 but limited to two shells. 

To be honest I think like after Cumbria, not much if anything will change.   

[clangerman]

5 minutes ago, toontastic said:

If anything is disgraceful its you using this thread to continue your hatred of the police. Others are critical of what happened but you  always have an obvious hatred in your agenda. Criticism is welcome but try not to let your apparent hatred take over threads. 

there’s is no hatred on my part it’s a simple FACT the police could and should have prevented the loss of life trying to twist it as hatred won’t change the facts however unpleasant they taste 

[12gauge82]

7 minutes ago, clangerman said:

there’s is no hatred on my part it’s a simple FACT the police could and should have prevented the loss of life trying to twist it as hatred won’t change the facts however unpleasant they taste 

Is it a fact, do you know something for sure that the rest of the country doesn't yet? 

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Is it a fact, do you know something for sure that the rest of the country doesn't yet? 

With the information currently available to the general public it seems a very likely assumption.

[12gauge82]

39 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

With the information currently available to the general public it seems a very likely assumption.

Its a guess, and certainly not a fact. what do we pay for a shotgun renewal? do you think the police have the money, time or resources to check and then analyse everyone's social media and online profile during the full 5 years their licence is valid? All for the misley fee we pay. 

I think we need to wait for a proper investigation before we jump to conclusions,rather than blame others in the hope the public doesn't blame us. 

[Jaymo]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Its a guess, and certainly not a fact. what do we pay for a shotgun renewal? do you think the police have the money, time or resources to check and then analyse everyone's social media and online profile during the full 5 years their licence is valid? All for the misley fee we pay. 

I think we need to wait for a proper investigation before we jump to conclusions,rather than blame others in the hope the public doesn't blame us. 

Which is what I was trying to convey earlier!

Five years with potentially zero contact in between, is in my opinion, too long.

I know others will dislike this statement but we can’t continue to blame others or bury our heads. Times are a changing, whether we like it or not.

 

[oowee]

Lets keep things in proportion. Life is not without risks. The system we have is one of the toughest in the world. You cannot legislate for phsycho's whatever legislation you put in place, firearms, cars, knives electric scooters, weed killer, whatever. Tragic as it is they will happen. 

[12gauge82]

11 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Which is what I was trying to convey earlier!

Five years with potentially zero contact in between, is in my opinion, too long.

I know others will dislike this statement but we can’t continue to blame others or bury our heads. Times are a changing, whether we like it or not.

 

👍

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lets keep things in proportion. Life is not without risks. The system we have is one of the toughest in the world. You cannot legislate for phsycho's whatever legislation you put in place, firearms, cars, knives electric scooters, weed killer, whatever. Tragic as it is they will happen. 

And this

[Dave-G]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

 

I don't think anyone suggests monitoring shooters social media over the course of a licence duration. I think its fair to look at it before granting or particularly when reinstating a suspended one though.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Dave-G

[Guest cookoff013]

sadly this event will become a political points grabbing exercise. i agree with some of the statements here. 
 its going to go on for a while. essentially, someone needs to be blamed. people are Angry and upset or they will be.

i`d like to re-remind members here that this is a public access forum, and everyone here is a representative of atleast our media / sport. 
 

 

[Fisheruk]

On 13/08/2021 at 13:26, Zapp said:

Police firearms departments are overstretched and subject to a lot of bureaucracy.  FEOs, who dont get paid a great deal, have to manage big caseloads and take risk based decisions all the time.  Sadly its inevitable that they arent always going to get it right.

People will slip through the net unless it is fixed, and in my opinion this rather than our gun laws is where the problem lies.  Off the top of my head I can think of two very serious child sex offenders who were members of this forum and who had guns.  I've personally been threatened, stalked and harassed by people who were on PW.   

Well said. I had my quinquennial renewal just after the Cumbrian shooting 10 years ago. At the time of my home visit I raised the subject with the FEO whom I knew quite well and always got on with him very well. He simply said that it was always his worst nightmare that someone he had “OK’d” flips and does something nasty. I don’t know the ins and outs of this matter, but I’m sure scapegoating anyone won’t help.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Fisheruk

[12gauge82]

32 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I don't think anyone suggests monitoring shooters social media over the course of a licence duration. I think its fair to look at it before granting or particularly when reinstating a suspended one though.

But people often become mentally ill or radicalised over a period of time, 5 years is more than enough for this to happen and looking at someone's Facebook or other social media accounts could show nothing anyway, the police would need to look at people's entire online footprint to be of any real use and I would think that would be classed as an invasion of privacy and cost a fortune. 

Take DV vetting for instance, that costs 10s of thousands to do and even then its not fool proof. I'm not sure blaming the police is helpful. 

[clangerman]

having seized my firearms i can confirm for a FACT the police carried out the most extensive checks possible gp friends family nobody was of limits so with no stone left unturned how did this chap get his firearms back?