Cock Pheasant Required Pellet Energy

[wymberley]

A good friend of my step-son has 'come of age' as it were with sufficient time and dosh now available to get stuck in. I could answer this one question that he's asked - he's a tad confused by all the various opinions that he's come across - but I too can only offer my opinion and I suspect that I would be over cautious. What is the PW consensus opinion from the game shooters regarding the Subject necessary energy level for a clean kill all things being equal? He is being sensible in asking as he will be shooting on some of the mid-Devon high-ish bird shoots where pattern also becomes a consideration.

[Scully]

Personally I’d forget about energy levels and just choose a good and popular brand, weight and shot size. 
No one needs to know about energy levels; it won’t make anyone a better shot, it won’t improve your kill rate and it won’t explain your misses. 
My advice would be to simply pick a good quality high bird cartridge, of which there are many ( because to recommend one or even two, just opens up opportunities for people to recommend their personal preference , and then you’re just as confused as you were )  and just go out shooting. 
 

[WalkedUp]

Just now, Scully said:

Personally I’d forget about energy levels and just choose a good and popular brand, weight and shot size. 
No one needs to know about energy levels; it won’t make anyone a better shot, it won’t improve your kill rate and it won’t explain your misses. 
My advice would be to simply pick a good quality high bird cartridge, of which there are many ( because to recommend one or even two, just opens up opportunities for people to recommend their personal preference , and then you’re just as confused as you were )  and just go out shooting. 
 

Agree

[Ultrastu]

I'm presuming your not meaning airgun pellet ?  If you were is about 8 fpe  

As for  shot gun pellets .I dont believe  that's relevant  . Take a shot at 35 yds instead of 30 yds and you have the potential  to loose an extra 10 - 20 % of energy  per pellet and hit with less .

The over all reduction in energy put  on target can be huge . As much as maybe 40 % ? So all that is really required is to hit your pheasant   at decent  range with a good pattern. 

Trying to work out retained energy is a waste of time . Even for great mathamatical minds  . Which mine is not .

[Rob85]

Ive never really been too concerned about all the technicalities myself as my shooting rarely goes past 40 yards. Im assuming we are talking about a 12bore here. 30 grams of 6 or 7 shot for someone starting out should be plenty as he will not want to be trying the highest of high birds. If you want a bit more certainty get him a 32gram 5 load.

[Fellside]

In the last market census the most popular pheasant basher was 32 gram 5s. As already alluded to, brand/type is a can of worms, which has been done to death on PW. If I recall correctly 30 gram 6s were second favourite in the census. Personally I use the former for high stuff and the latter for ‘average birds’ on flatter ground, and have done for many years.

I wouldn’t get techy about pellet energy. Most quality game cart’s will deliver the required energy. He will no doubt try a few brands and adopt his own ‘confidence cartridge’ in time. I hope he thoroughly enjoys himself!

[wymberley]

11 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

Ive never really been too concerned about all the technicalities myself as my shooting rarely goes past 40 yards. Im assuming we are talking about a 12bore here. 30 grams of 6 or 7 shot for someone starting out should be plenty as he will not want to be trying the highest of high birds. If you want a bit more certainty get him a 32gram 5 load.

Cheers, Rob. That's the way I was thinking. Fortunately, the chap has been shooting for a while and had the nous to realise that for birds out to 50 yards max he didn't need the High Pheasant Extreme 32g of No 5 (4s) or, and as per, Black Gold dark storm as he was advised by the RFD trying to sell them. (Have to say, the lad's got style - his wheels are a Series 1 which looks as though it could not have driven off the production line any earlier than 8:30 this morning.) The point that he made - with which I agree entirely - is how do you get to make a sensible decision which gets you close to what you ultimately decide upon when faced with the advice that he was given. You have to start somewhere by knowing the capability of the cartridge and the energy required to do the job.

[Old farrier]

He’s obviously shot at some game to be taking on the higher Devon birds so by now he should have found something that works best for him or seen what works for his friends 

these are the cartridges to use

in most cases marksmanship fails first 

[wymberley]

16 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

He’s obviously shot at some game to be taking on the higher Devon birds so by now he should have found something that works best for him or seen what works for his friends 

these are the cartridges to use

in most cases marksmanship fails first 

Ah! Didn't realise that you know him.

[London Best]

14 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

He’s obviously shot at some game to be taking on the higher Devon birds so by now he should have found something that works best for him or seen what works for his friends 

these are the cartridges to use

in most cases marksmanship fails first 

This. Good post.

 

52 minutes ago, Fellside said:

In the last market census the most popular pheasant basher was 32 gram 5s

And how many of the respondents knew what they were talking about, rather than repeating what the man behind the counter had told them whilst trying to sell them something?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gordon Bennett, here we go again!   

[ditchman]

shotgun thrombosis.....comes to mind

[TIGHTCHOKE]

You still have to put the shot in the correct place!   

[Scully]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You still have to put the shot in the correct place!   

Quite. Variables. 

[Ultrastu]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Cheers, Rob. That's the way I was thinking. Fortunately, the chap has been shooting for a while and had the nous to realise that for birds out to 50 yards max he didn't need the High Pheasant Extreme 32g of No 5 (4s) or, and as per, Black Gold dark storm as he was advised by the RFD trying to sell them. (Have to say, the lad's got style - his wheels are a Series 1 which looks as though it could not have driven off the production line any earlier than 8:30 this morning.) The point that he made - with which I agree entirely - is how do you get to make a sensible decision which gets you close to what you ultimately decide upon when faced with the advice that he was given. You have to start somewhere by knowing the capability of the cartridge and the energy required to do the job.

The gun and choke will have the biggest baring on which cartridge  he finds best for killing high pheasants .which could be totally different to his fave pigeon cartridge  and  gun / choke .

Kind of pointless me telling him which gun, choke, cart combo I use and prefer .it won't be the same as his .

 

This point was driven home to me a few weeks ago  .I was in a very good gun shop and the very experienced  clay shooter (while talking about .410 carts and guns ) said what do I think about the bornaghi 14 grm no7.5  carts ? In my and my mates experience  it's a terrible cartridge  that makes loads of noise and won't kill beyond 20 yds MAX  patterns very badly from a series  of guns .

The fellow in the shop said its the best .410 cart he has ever shot and has some amazing breaks with his very expensive  ou. 

So who do you believe ? .depends on what gun u have and your quarry /range . I suppose  .

Edited January 3, 2022 by Ultrastu

[Fellside]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

This. Good post.

 

And how many of the respondents knew what they were talking about, rather than repeating what the man behind the counter had told them whilst trying to sell them something?

As there were about 2,000 respondents, we can only say somewhere between 1 and 2,000 new what they were talking about.

I’m sure it’s like any census from cross sections of the public, some respondents will be knowledgeable and some not so. While I find myself being a typical game cartridge buyer (5s and 6s) it was long ago when I last took advice from the gun shop. I just keep buying what I have personally found works best over the years. 

[cardigun]

We always start the season with 30gm 6's, and change to 32gm 5's for the late season birds.  We always use fibre wads.

[Jimbo yorks]

Dependant on what I'm doing,

I use 20 bore and 28 mostly but pellet size is the same regardless.

6 for early on , 5 for December onwards. I like the continental sizes personally they give a bit more oomph.

 

[ditchman]

28grm #7's for everything........if its too far away for a clean kill then leave it...and enjoy the day

[Krico woodcock]

32g no. 6 or no.5  and just shoot them. Dead is dead.. if you were on a hot peg, and you were stuffing the barrels with cartridges as quick as the pheasants flew over, you wouldn't be too concerned if it was a no.6 or no.5, or what  ft/lbs pellets produced at 40+ yards. You'd just want to get them shells in chamber, no matter  what they were!!

[London Best]

53 minutes ago, Krico woodcock said:

32g no. 6 or no.5  and just shoot them. Dead is dead.. if you were on a hot peg, and you were stuffing the barrels with cartridges as quick as the pheasants flew over, you wouldn't be too concerned if it was a no.6 or no.5, or what  ft/lbs pellets produced at 40+ yards. You'd just want to get them shells in chamber, no matter  what they were!!

This, all day every day. But I would also include num.7

[Down South]

..if its too far away for a clean kill then leave it...and enjoy the day

 

When I went back to using a small bore I developed a very technical method of choosing the best cartridge for my needs.

Carried out over several shoots, I bought 4 different brands of cartridge, put an equal amount of each in my bag and went shooting. Loading blind, cases from a kill or heavy hit went in one pocket, miss or ***** in an other pocket. It didn’t take long to see that 2 brands were superior. One of those has plastic wads so discounted leaving me my favourite that does what I want all season long. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Krico woodcock said:

32g no. 6 or no.5  and just shoot them. Dead is dead.. if you were on a hot peg, and you were stuffing the barrels with cartridges as quick as the pheasants flew over, you wouldn't be too concerned if it was a no.6 or no.5, or what  ft/lbs pellets produced at 40+ yards. You'd just want to get them shells in chamber, no matter  what they were!!

👍

[Stonepark]

On 03/01/2022 at 16:32, Ultrastu said:

The fellow in the shop said its the best .410 cart he has ever shot and has some amazing breaks with his very expensive  ou.

I suspect a combination of elonger forcing cones (which have a major effect on 410) and better chokes (in that they are not over choking the gun, as lot of less expensive guns are woefully overchoked) would both improve a 410 overall patterns but would also make them less sensitive to ammunition choice.

 

Full choke on a 12 bore involves the constriction of the bore by 10.7% (40thou), translating this to 410 is 14 to 16 thou depending on bore size, yet many guns come with 20thou plus.

[Stonepark]

On 03/01/2022 at 14:47, wymberley said:

The point that he made - with which I agree entirely - is how do you get to make a sensible decision which gets you close to what you ultimately decide upon when faced with the advice that he was given. You have to start somewhere by knowing the capability of the cartridge and the energy required to do the job.

1ftlb in no5, no 6 or no7 is minimum energy required (which also corresponds to about 1 inch penetration in ballistic gel at 60, 50 and 40 yards respectively).

Pattern is equally important and for 50 yards, 36g no 6 will drop every pheasant if on target with 1/4 and 1/2 choke.

Alternatively, 32g no6 will work with 3/4 and FULL.