Longthorne Guns - Faults and Terrible Customer Service

[JohnfromUK]

8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

but not all new guns are identical - wood density affects the balance. I now prefer to handle a gun before buying,

Same for me.  I have never bought one 'un-handled', though I have bought both with and without trial shooting.  Some years ago now, I bought an SO6 - and handled several before settling on one.  Perhaps by co-incidence, that was not trouble free - needing return to dealer more than once to locate and cure an occasional top barrel misfire (eventually traced to the tumbler just touching the wood - mainly after a wet day).

[TK421]

8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

It seems to be getting out of hand. Each to his / her own way of buying. 

I have only ever bought one gun without seeing it first. It was fine, but not all new guns are identical - wood density affects the balance. I now prefer to handle a gun before buying, but those who buy on-line are aware of the risks and are happy to accept them.

That's life.

I take your point on gun balance, but all correctable with weights on the DT11, the wood density element wasn’t the issue in my case. Plus there were only 3 in the country to choose from, only 2 of those had 32” barrels. So no choice really, the wood looked prettier on one than the other, so  I’ll pick that one. A DT11 is a DT11, some just have prettier  engraving and nicer wood. 
 

Maybe I’ve got this all wrong, it would appear from some of the replies in this thread that expecting a brand new gun from factory to be free from defects/faults is unheard of? I’m genuinely shocked that most find it acceptable that the ‘only’ way to buy a brand new shotgun is to travel to see it first, inspect it to make sure it’s fault free, I’m guessing you’d also have to shoot a few rounds through it also to guarantee it functions mechanically?
Does non of this sound ludicrous or are expectations set so low in this industry that people just accept things are the way they are and subsequently put up with poor production and low quality control? 

I for one don’t, if I buy anything new it should be exactly that, new, with adequate QC in place to ensure it is as such, new and fit for purpose. If Beretta or whomever I deal with can’t deliver on that then it gets returned under the distance selling act, no risk to me just time and at their expense not mine. The replacement guns I had came direct from factory Italy, through to the UK distributor (GMK) and still had issues, why you ask, because  the simple checks on the gear were not done by anyone in the chain, from the production floor, QC at the factory to the distributor. It’s just simply lazy and inexcusable. As an engineer I find it ridiculous to work any other way than to perfection, 1mm is 1mm not 2 or 3, it’s 1mm. When manufacturing exceeds tolerance it’s either reworked or scraped, you don’t just send it out the door and hope nobody spots it or expect your dealers to correct it or the customer. Speak to any dealer in the land about how they get on with Beretta Italy when they have issues? And trust me when I say, they have issues with brand new guns far more exquisite than DT11 EELL.

I find it incredible what sheeple actually accept as the norm in this day and age?

The mind boggles. 

I’m done now with this, I’ve made my point, we all have our own opinions on how things are done and I accept that there are those that want to buy new stuff by viewing in person and like getting out of the house, I get this entirely.  that there are also others like myself that expect what they paid for is delivered in a fit state, useable, not falling to pieces and most importantly ‘new’. YMMV of course 

As you were chaps…
 

Edited October 10, 2022 by TK421

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Gordon R said:

not all new guns are identical - wood density affects the balance. I now prefer to handle a gun before buying, but those who buy on-line are aware of the risks and are happy to accept them.

That's life.

That is certainly the case. 
I bought a new gun back in 1975. There were three on the rack. I looked at one and would not have bought it. I asked the dealer to pass me a second one. He laughed and told me that all three were identical but I insisted. The second one handled like a dream for me, but I still handled the third one before buying the second one. I still have it 47 years later and it still shoots where I look.

[Gordon R]

TK421 - I agree partially, but although weights can be distributed around the DT11, the gun will end up heavier.

[TK421]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

TK421 - I agree partially, but although weights can be distributed around the DT11, the gun will end up heavier.

I agreed with this, as previously stated, But we’ve totally digressed away from the original point and issue regarding the lack quality control on new guns (from beretta) , which has nothing to do with weight and wood density?, that is unless weight is more important than overall fit, finish and craftsman ship. Personally I’d rather have a gun that worked, didn’t breakdown, didn’t rust, was tight, opened and closed when pushing the top lever, didn’t rattle and shoots were I look, than a gun that has wood that’s the correct density for me? Especially when you only had a choice of 2 guns in the whole country?  If there was a rack of 10 guns the same, then yes, shoulder and swing em about until your hearts content. For the record the wood was sublime on all of these premium Berettas, with the grade 5 wood on the EELL’s stunning. Never had issue with the wood, nor claimed there was issue with that element of the gun.
The point has clearly been missed. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by TK421

[bruno22rf]

20 hours ago, TK421 said:

That works when you purchase direct walking into a bricks and mortar shop. I purchased remote via RFD. Regardless QC should grab all these issues. Should never be in a position where you buy a new gun either direct or remote and it has any major issues. That’s the arrogance of Beretta Italy, guns leave without proper QC and they expect the dealer network, GMK and the customer resolving the issues.  There’s also a possibility that some customers will just live with the issues. Totally unacceptable at every level. 

the replacement guns were sent to me direct from italy, with faults. So there’s no way to foresee that one other than complain when you open the box after delivery. 

You have more legal rights if you buy online, Consumer Contracts Act (previousley distance selling regs) gives you the right to return the item within 30 days without even having to give a reason. As ever, paying at least £100 by Credit Card gives you even more protection. Did you pay Beretta direct may I ask?

[TK421]

Just now, bruno22rf said:

You have more legal rights if you buy online, Consumer Contracts Act (previousley distance selling regs) gives you the right to return the item within 30 days without even having to give a reason. As ever, paying at least £100 by Credit Card gives you even more protection. Did you pay Beretta direct may I ask?

Absolutely, hence zero risk to me and less faff having to drive all over the country. This has gone off topic to be fair, my comments related more to the quality issues with a premium beretta product. Not that I give a **** about what others think but It almost felt like it was my fault it was faulty due to me not handling the shotgun before buying? Ridiculous right 😂.
I Purchased through one of berettas premium dealers, who were fantastic about the whole thing quoting it’s not the first time they’ve had issues with Beretta Italy, it sure won’t be the last.
All refunded and have thankfully  moved on. 

[Adrian Foster]

Glad everything worked out with the Longthorne(s).

One of the odd things we live with in the UK regarding the sale of guns is that we accept that warranties are with the distributor, not the seller, despite the fact that the gun is purchased from the seller and they owe the implied terms in the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Any Beretta premium dealer is not helping you much by failing to front the issue(s) themselves.

[Wylye]

If I were GMK I wouldn't be happy with a so-called Premium Dealer being so unprofessional biting the hand that feeds them. They are happy enough to take the extra discounts and promotions the 'Premium' bit gives them then side with the customer when a problem occurs. But that's the gun trade for you I suppose.

[Fil]

On 10/10/2022 at 16:59, Wylye said:

If I were GMK I wouldn't be happy with a so-called Premium Dealer being so unprofessional biting the hand that feeds them. They are happy enough to take the extra discounts and promotions the 'Premium' bit gives them then side with the customer when a problem occurs. But that's the gun trade for you I suppose.

We're not all like that.

[Wylye]

I quite agree but we all are aware of instances of unprofessional dealers treating customers badly.

[holloway]

I see TGS outdoors has just posted a review on his Longthorne after owning it for a while on YouTube haven’t watched it yet so might be interesting.

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

I see TGS outdoors has just posted a review on his Longthorne after owning it for a while on YouTube haven’t watched it yet so might be interesting.

I'm sure that "Johnny" is a very nice man but FWIW I take his videos as mostly teaching Grandmother to suck eggs. 

[enfieldspares]

 

[holloway]

49 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I'm sure that "Johnny" is a very nice man but FWIW I take his videos as mostly teaching Grandmother to suck eggs. 

For a lot of people I would agree with you but not everyone has been brought up around the shooting industry , so many might find it useful ,I have just watched it in part and found it hard going to be honest .

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, holloway said:

found it hard going to be honest

+1. 

I can't really put my finger on why it was hard going other than at the end (and I did watch almost all) I rather got the feeling that all I had learned was his opinion. He likes it but intends to make more changes anyway - which kind of indicates he isn't really happy with it as it stands (despite saying otherwise!).  It was all a bit 'woolly' and unclear to me.

The 'bad' seemed mostly that he can't be bothered to look after it and he doesn't quite like the way they made the safety catch spring and the rib - which I'm sure they could do whatever he wants if asked. 

None of the 'bad' was Longthorne's cause at all.

[TK421]

To be fair I wouldn’t expect his option to be anything other than ‘it’s a great gun’. Look a gift horse and all that… 

[Duffryn]

UPDATE -  I had the the two guns back for the start of the season and have been lucky enough to put a couple of thousand cartridges through the pair with zero issues. Longthorne's are great guns to use and I know I can rely on my pair now. Zero regrets buying them and I'm a very happy and proud owner.

  

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Duffryn said:

UPDATE -  I had the the two guns back for the start of the season and have been lucky enough to put a couple of thousand cartridges through the pair with zero issues. Longthorne's are great guns to use and I know I can rely on my pair now. Zero regrets buying them and I'm a very happy and proud owner.

  

That is good to hear.

[Scully]

46 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

None of the 'bad' was Longthorne's cause at all.

Exactly, it was made to his spec’. 

[enfieldspares]

Well I just watched the video that I posted the link to. It was either that or Lineker. Scalded or boiled really. 

[8 shot]

Ye he does use a thousand words when 10 will do. I started to watch out of curisosity as Longthorne aren't far from me, but its like all sponsed reviews you never actually get an honest viewpoint, whether guns, cartridges or equipment.

Edited December 18, 2022 by 8 shot

[TK421]

33 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Ye he does use a thousand words when 10 will do. I started to watch out of curisosity as Longthorne aren't far from me, but its like all sponsed reviews you never actually get an honest viewpoint, whether guns, cartridges or equipment.

100% agree. Best to read between the lines. Watching the various JC videos I don’t get the impress he’s really gelled with it. Like his old Miroku etc. I picked on up in store and put it back down. Proud that it’s British but didn’t feel right for me. Spoke with a few of the larger UK dealers who don’t stock longthorne guns as to why the don’t. It wasn’t that they weren’t offered them they just chose not to down to reported issues from customers. Basically saying they wouldn’t sell any. I also think they blooming expensive as well. 

[Wylye]

I think it depends on what sort of customer base shops have. If most of them are pigeon shooters and roughshooters then the likelihood of shifting significant numbers of Longthornes are fairly low.

From my limited experience with Longthornes, the engineering side of the business is very well organised. They badly need a marketing policy that works much better than their current efforts.