Incredibly sad to see guns valued like this.

[redial]

I think the W&S 700's left the factory quite tightly choked.

There is one for sale not far from me and they are asking over £900.

[Ausgunner]

Beautiful guns, count yourself lucky you won't find many 101s over in Aus under 500£ and if they are they have shot 1million shells, i just picked up an unfired 101 black action waiting on it to arrive, i'll take a good cond nikko, 101, early miroku over any new gun today

[holloway]

On 22/03/2022 at 01:19, Ausgunner said:

Beautiful guns, count yourself lucky you won't find many 101s over in Aus under 500£ and if they are they have shot 1million shells, i just picked up an unfired 101 black action waiting on it to arrive, i'll take a good cond nikko, 101, early miroku over any new gun today

Completely agree on that .Over here new owners seem to get persuaded to buy new Turkish stuff .

[Ausgunner]

10 hours ago, holloway said:

Completely agree on that .Over here new owners seem to get persuaded to buy new Turkish stuff .

Yes it's sad but also good as it means more for people who know how amazing they are to buy haha, happy shooting 

[theshootist]

I watched a 32" Browning B25 B1 (the one with the plane black action) go though auction at £800 a few weeks ago. I would have bought it had I been able to inspect it. The wood was very plane but I couldn't help thinking what an amazing clay gun it would make - especially since my next clay gun will likely be a 32" MK38 at much more money. 

[Scully]

5 hours ago, theshootist said:

I watched a 32" Browning B25 B1 (the one with the plane black action) go though auction at £800 a few weeks ago. I would have bought it had I been able to inspect it. The wood was very plane but I couldn't help thinking what an amazing clay gun it would make - especially since my next clay gun will likely be a 32" MK38 at much more money. 

I had similar thoughts about buying a Browning ProSport some years ago, but then realised I already owned a gun capable of everything the ProSport was, and that’s my Winchester 8500. It was a fraction of the cost of even a S/H ProSport. No brainer. 👍

[grahamch]

Am looking for a replacement for an ou and auto so can have on gun for everything, only problems with older guns is the lack of hp steel proof even when 3 inch models. As I go fowling a bit old guns no matter how good a bargain are a no go for me. 

[Bigbob]

I got a lovey o/u free and only had to travel 30 miles for it , then when i got it i found it was in better condition than mine and i got a 410 and a box of shells 

I was looking ahead and wanted them for my son and grandson but the futures no so bright for shooting 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, grahamch said:

Am looking for a replacement for an ou and auto so can have on gun for everything, only problems with older guns is the lack of hp steel proof even when 3 inch models. As I go fowling a bit old guns no matter how good a bargain are a no go for me. 

If they’ve been nitro proofed, good quality older guns are perfectly capable of handling HP steel. I put loads of HP steel loads through an old 2&3/4 chambered Winchester Diamond Grade I owned when shooting ducks and geese. 

[London Best]

3 hours ago, grahamch said:

Am looking for a replacement for an ou and auto so can have on gun for everything, only problems with older guns is the lack of hp steel proof even when 3 inch models. As I go fowling a bit old guns no matter how good a bargain are a no go for me. 

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to shoot all those ducks and geese with old guns and 32 gram loads.

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to shoot all those ducks and geese with old guns and 32 gram loads.

Yep, me too.  Just had an e mail from a close friend in California and he said he had just finished duck season...repeat duck season.. He shoots a 3 inch Magnum load firng a ton of steel #3s.

I have visited some of the areas they shoot ducks and I am confident I could cleanly kill most with 19g of #6s from my 410.

Mind, I was put off by the lines of guns wating at Game Agents offices for blinds to be clear after other earlier guns had shot their limit (3 at the time).  Think yourselves lucky guys.

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to shoot all those ducks and geese with old guns and 32 gram loads.

I have never been in the position to buy a new gun or an expensive one come to that , that have never bothered me one bit and to me they are treated as a tool of the trade , my dearest one in my cabinet is a English side lock that was sent to London to be reproofed and I bought it many years ago when I was doing a bit of building work after tea and at weekends , the owner was getting married and was a bit short of cash so he offered it to me for £300 with no offers , this gun have had less use by me than any other gun I have had , for many years I used a 3 inch hammer gun by Midland Gun Company and the gun ate whatever you offered it, and that gun was the only gun I ever regretted selling but it was well past the sell by date and needed a fair bit of medical work as it got very loose .

My wild fowling gun now is a 2 3/4 B S A ej I bought from our local auction a good 12 / 15 years ago and is still going strong , my duck loads are 32 gm and for geese they are 36 gms , the chokes are around full and half and using steel have been the least of my worries and until one or two of my ole mates passed on they to used steel in ole second hand guns , I am not saying that is the right thing to do , but after many years of using steel for fowling I have not got to the stage where I don't give it a second thought .

[Westley]

We have the 'Brainwashed' must be steelproofed brigade to thank for the current gun sales situation. I believe they want steel proofed gunslips now too  !   🙄

Edited March 31, 2022 by Westley

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

We have the 'Brainwashed' must be steelproofed brigade to thank for the current gun sales situation. I believe they want steel proofed gunslips now too  !   🙄

To match their closed and commonsense proof minds methinks!

[Scully]

I’ve never used anything bigger than 32 grm 3’s or 4’s for duck and geese, which are more than capable through half choke, for either. 

[Poor Shot]

18 hours ago, Scully said:

If they’ve been nitro proofed, good quality older guns are perfectly capable of handling HP steel. I put loads of HP steel loads through an old 2&3/4 chambered Winchester Diamond Grade I owned when shooting ducks and geese. 

I can't see why they wouldn't be suitable for use with HP steel, especially the guns that were sold in the USA at the same time. I can't imagine any of the manufacturers would have changed barrel/action thicknesses to suit the USAs lack of any real proof laws. They would have built to suit the highest pressures they could reasonably expect and then sold worldwide on the same design. 

This obviously doesn't apply to old SXS guns with paper thin barrels and full and extra full chokes but your average 1980's/90's Beretta or Browning O/U would be fine. 

[marsh man]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ve never used anything bigger than 32 grm 3’s or 4’s for duck and geese, which are more than capable through half choke, for either. 

In the right hands, and more importantly at the right range just about any combination will kill duck or geese , below the sea wall the chances are far and few between and it is far better to have a little extra up the spout and not quite enough , hitting a goose at say 35 / 40 yds is not one of the hardest shots on earth , but dropping a goose at that range needs to be hit in the right place rather than just hitting it , this is where that bit extra shot can and do make a difference .

Mind you , in this ever changing world there will never be a perfect combination , you are getting people using guns and cartridges in 12 bore loads that are bigger than some of the 10 bore we used to use , and some are going at the other end of the scale and using 20 bores with light 12 bore loads , so it's a matter of take your pick .

[Scully]

49 minutes ago, marsh man said:

In the right hands, and more importantly at the right range just about any combination will kill duck or geese , below the sea wall the chances are far and few between and it is far better to have a little extra up the spout and not quite enough , hitting a goose at say 35 / 40 yds is not one of the hardest shots on earth , but dropping a goose at that range needs to be hit in the right place rather than just hitting it , this is where that bit extra shot can and do make a difference .

Mind you , in this ever changing world there will never be a perfect combination , you are getting people using guns and cartridges in 12 bore loads that are bigger than some of the 10 bore we used to use , and some are going at the other end of the scale and using 20 bores with light 12 bore loads , so it's a matter of take your pick .

Quite, but with bigger bores and bigger shot you’re getting into the realms of ‘extreme’ quarry shooting, which is generally frowned upon as far as driven game is concerned, whereas big bores and big shot at wildfowl at extreme ranges is regarded through romantic rose tinted spectacles. 😉

[JohnfromUK]

3 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

but your average 1980's/90's Beretta or Browning O/U would be fine. 

I have certainly used my 1980s Beretta with USA loads in the 1990s (not steel as lead was supplied) when shooting (white wings) in Costa Rica.  I still have the gun and it came to no harm at all ......... but it wasn't particularly pleasant to shoot with those loads.  The cases were 2 3/4 and from recollection the load was 1 1/4 oz (the lightest we could get as ammunition choice was pretty limited) but I suspect the cartridges were very 'hot' as the recoil was fierce.

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have certainly used my 1980s Beretta with USA loads in the 1990s (not steel as lead was supplied) when shooting (white wings) in Costa Rica.  I still have the gun and it came to no harm at all ......... but it wasn't particularly pleasant to shoot with those loads.  The cases were 2 3/4 and from recollection the load was 1 1/4 oz (the lightest we could get as ammunition choice was pretty limited) but I suspect the cartridges were very 'hot' as the recoil was fierce.

Indeed. 32grm steel 3’s through a 3/4 choked Browning 2000 are punchy, I see no reason why they would be any different through a steel shot proofed gun. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

I see no reason why they would be any different through a steel shot proofed gun. 

Agreed, although I suspect HP steel proofed guns tend to be heavier than my old Beretta (7 1/4 lbs).  The irritation for me (other than the cost, which in Costa Rica was very high then) was that the shooting would have been every bit as good with 1 oz - and much more enjoyable.  The weather was very hot, and a heavy hot cartridge through a game gun in light clothing is not ideal!  At the time, it was the only gun I owned with 2 3/4 chambers (and I guess also the heaviest).

My host had said he would get 'light' 12 bore cartridges, but in my innocence, I didn't realise the different views Americans have on 'light'!

[Scully]

26 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Agreed, although I suspect HP steel proofed guns tend to be heavier than my old Beretta (7 1/4 lbs).  

More than likely; the only older guns I know of which have been sent for steel shot proofing are old sporter or trap guns. 

[holloway]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

More than likely; the only older guns I know of which have been sent for steel shot proofing are old sporter or trap guns. 

I sent an old Winchester lightweight game for steel proofing when wildfowlers first had to use steel by law .

It was a fairly tired one if I remember correctly it passed ok.

[Scully]

14 minutes ago, holloway said:

I sent an old Winchester lightweight game for steel proofing when wildfowlers first had to use steel by law .

It was a fairly tired one if I remember correctly it passed ok.

That’s good to know. 👍