Don't really like him, but simply brilliant.

[islandgun]

43 minutes ago, jall25 said:

If we all ate vegan - simply where would we get the fertiliser from ?  More chemicals - more costs - more destruction ?

We dont just need trees for the sake of trees - we need hedges / ponds / ditches and banks - meadows and scrub - Thats the answer to the biodiversity crisis.

 

Spot on

You could also mention we need grazing animals to keep habitats that have evolved [through grazing] to support a wide range of threatened flora and fauna that don't live up trees, curlew for instance 

[johnphilip]

2 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Spot on

You could also mention we need grazing animals to keep habitats that have evolved [through grazing] to support a wide range of threatened flora and fauna that don't live up trees, curlew for instance 

Exactly,  it was so sad during the time of the last " Foot and Mouth "  outbreak to see fields , devoid of livestock.  Heartbroken farmers  . Some  ending there lives , 

On a farm they had built up over generations . Can be a lonely  old life farming .

[Cranfield]

14 hours ago, Spr1985 said:

I believe you have taken the wrong end of the stick here. @ooweewas responding to my comment, I think when he said "The death of a few animals and insects will be inconsequential" he was referring to the animals and insects that die through the production and transportation of food and not animals that are bread for the purpose of being consumed. 

Having re read the sequence of posts you are probably right.
However, it does beggar the question, what happens to all the livestock if we all turn into vegans or vegetarians ?
I have always had meat free meals, including fish, other sea products and wholly vegetable dishes, but I can't imagine never eating meat. 

 

[Scully]

48 minutes ago, Cranfield said:

Having re read the sequence of posts you are probably right.
However, it does beggar the question, what happens to all the livestock if we all turn into vegans or vegetarians ?
I have always had meat free meals, including fish, other sea products and wholly vegetable dishes, but I can't imagine never eating meat. 

 

I got into this debate with someone online some time ago, and asked what would happen to all the livestock that we currently have if everyone turned vegetarian or vegan. Wouldn’t they just go extinct??
He proposed they could be kept in zoos, like other animals. Or indeed farms suggested me, to which he agreed! Paid for by whom I asked. 
Visitors he replied. 
Ok, says I, which ones do we keep? To which he replied two of each. Two of each what, I asked. Two of each species, says he. Two pigs, two sheep, etc etc. So which breed do we select, and why? He became a bit flummoxed by this, so I tried to help him out with my limited knowledge of farming stock. Two Herdwicks? Two Texel? Blue face? Grey face? Fell? He didn’t know what they were, which is fair enough, so I elaborated on breeds of pigs, cows, horses, goats, poultry…..and there the conversation ended! 🤷‍♂️

[islandgun]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I got into this debate with someone online some time ago, and asked what would happen to all the livestock that we currently have if everyone turned vegetarian or vegan. Wouldn’t they just go extinct??
He proposed they could be kept in zoos, like other animals. Or indeed farms suggested me, to which he agreed! Paid for by whom I asked. 
Visitors he replied. 
Ok, says I, which ones do we keep? To which he replied two of each. Two of each what, I asked. Two of each species, says he. Two pigs, two sheep, etc etc. So which breed do we select, and why? He became a bit flummoxed by this, so I tried to help him out with my limited knowledge of farming stock. Two Herdwicks? Two Texel? Blue face? Grey face? Fell? He didn’t know what they were, which is fair enough, so I elaborated on breeds of pigs, cows, horses, goats, poultry…..and there the conversation ended! 🤷‍♂️

Just plain stupid, two of each species presume male and female, they breed you now have three, do you keep it or kill it, if you keep it its called farming, kill it its cruel, they have not thought it through but just got swept along by their peer group

[Poor Shot]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I got into this debate with someone online some time ago, and asked what would happen to all the livestock that we currently have if everyone turned vegetarian or vegan. Wouldn’t they just go extinct??
He proposed they could be kept in zoos, like other animals. Or indeed farms suggested me, to which he agreed! Paid for by whom I asked. 
Visitors he replied. 
Ok, says I, which ones do we keep? To which he replied two of each. Two of each what, I asked. Two of each species, says he. Two pigs, two sheep, etc etc. So which breed do we select, and why? He became a bit flummoxed by this, so I tried to help him out with my limited knowledge of farming stock. Two Herdwicks? Two Texel? Blue face? Grey face? Fell? He didn’t know what they were, which is fair enough, so I elaborated on breeds of pigs, cows, horses, goats, poultry…..and there the conversation ended! 🤷‍♂️

Most cannot (don't want to?) See beyond the first line of their argument that Meat is Murder so any effort put into trying to converse with them is wasted.

Time would he better spent asking the grass not to grow.

[Spr1985]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

I got into this debate with someone online some time ago, and asked what would happen to all the livestock that we currently have if everyone turned vegetarian or vegan. Wouldn’t they just go extinct??
He proposed they could be kept in zoos, like other animals. Or indeed farms suggested me, to which he agreed! Paid for by whom I asked. 
Visitors he replied. 
Ok, says I, which ones do we keep? To which he replied two of each. Two of each what, I asked. Two of each species, says he. Two pigs, two sheep, etc etc. So which breed do we select, and why? He became a bit flummoxed by this, so I tried to help him out with my limited knowledge of farming stock. Two Herdwicks? Two Texel? Blue face? Grey face? Fell? He didn’t know what they were, which is fair enough, so I elaborated on breeds of pigs, cows, horses, goats, poultry…..and there the conversation ended! 🤷‍♂️

@Cranfield my response to the question that you posed would have been very similar to what @Scully has already said.

I believe extinction of most farmed breeds/species would happen. The novelty of being paid to look after a few to keep them from extinction  would soon wear off and ideas to put the land to profitable use would soon come into mind,  By which point the vegans/vegetarians would realise the catastrophe they had caused……and swiftly find someone else to blame other than their movement. 

[oowee]

32 minutes ago, Spr1985 said:

@Cranfield my response to the question that you posed would have been very similar to what @Scully has already said.

I believe extinction of most farmed breeds/species would happen. The novelty of being paid to look after a few to keep them from extinction  would soon wear off and ideas to put the land to profitable use would soon come into mind,  By which point the vegans/vegetarians would realise the catastrophe they had caused……and swiftly find someone else to blame other than their movement. 

I guess breeds come and go. It's species we try to protect. There is a big difference between vegetarian and vegan. 

For me eating vegetables (rather than veganism) is about providing more food and less environmental impact. 

[Spr1985]

47 minutes ago, oowee said:

I guess breeds come and go. It's species we try to protect. There is a big difference between vegetarian and vegan. 

For me eating vegetables (rather than veganism) is about providing more food and less environmental impact. 

I’m aware that they’re different in meaning and reason/s but I find both groups to be just as militant with the efforts toward converting meat eaters.
 

I eat vegetables because they’re nice and taste good, I enjoy them. But,  I also love eggs cheese yogurt ice cream steak minted lamb fish bacon sarnies a good Lincolnshire sausage or Cumberland ring and whilst i’m at it a full English. I have zero interest in solely eating a vegetarian or vegan diet and have just as much interest in converting those that do to a diet containing meat or any other animal product, mainly because I respect their decision/choices. I just wish they would respect mine and stop ramming the movement down peoples throats in all forms of media and life in general. As I said earlier “you do you and I’ll do me…simple” 

[oowee]

25 minutes ago, Spr1985 said:

I’m aware that they’re different in meaning and reason/s but I find both groups to be just as militant with the efforts toward converting meat eaters.
 

I eat vegetables because they’re nice and taste good, I enjoy them. But,  I also love eggs cheese yogurt ice cream steak minted lamb fish bacon sarnies a good Lincolnshire sausage or Cumberland ring and whilst i’m at it a full English. I have zero interest in solely eating a vegetarian or vegan diet and have just as much interest in converting those that do to a diet containing meat or any other animal product, mainly because I respect their decision/choices. I just wish they would respect mine and stop ramming the movement down peoples throats in all forms of media and life in general. As I said earlier “you do you and I’ll do me…simple” 

Wholeheartedly agree. I like veg but I can't pass on a bacon or sausage sandwich. We had some vegans to stay and to say the least it was a nightmare. Not that they tried to convert but tge food choice for them was so limited. 

[zipdog]

On 14/09/2022 at 10:59, Scully said:

Just watched it, but couldn’t to the end. He makes some valid points, but he’s let everyone down by talking over her and stifling her input. She would no doubt just have added to the rope with which she could be hung, but talking over someone so they can’t put their point across, isn’t debate. 
He hasn’t shone in my opinion, and just appears to be a harassing bully. 

👍

[bostonmick]

On 14/09/2022 at 18:53, oowee said:

He would be far more interesting if he let his guest speak. 

I hear this a lot about land not being suitable for xyz but as technology develops these issues are likley to be overcome. First we need farming efficiency, and this is likely to come from scale. We still need lots of land for trees too. 

technologybwill have to come up with something pretty spectacular to make some of the rock filled areas of devon and yorkshire.then thereare vast areas of wales and scotland that are only suitsnle for sheep.also these people need to be shouted down vegans stop oil and insulate  extinction rebellion why have they the right to tell us jow we should live.i would like to see these people survive a couple of months without the things they want removed they would be crying before

a day had passed.

[islandgun]

10 hours ago, bostonmick said:

technologybwill have to come up with something pretty spectacular to make some of the rock filled areas of devon and yorkshire.then thereare vast areas of wales and scotland that are only suitsnle for sheep.also these people need to be shouted down vegans stop oil and insulate  extinction rebellion why have they the right to tell us jow we should live.i would like to see these people survive a couple of months without the things they want removed they would be crying before

a day had passed.

I wonder how a week or two in prison eating prison food would suit them, [Im talking about those drilling holes in the dairy lorry tyres] 

[amateur]

23 minutes ago, islandgun said:

I wonder how a week or two in prison eating prison food would suit them, [Im talking about those drilling holes in the dairy lorry tyres] 

Porridge?

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

Porridge?

with milk..😉

[Mice!]

12 hours ago, Spr1985 said:

I’m aware that they’re different in meaning and reason/s but I find both groups to be just as militant with the efforts toward converting meat eaters.
 

I eat vegetables because they’re nice and taste good, I enjoy them. But,  I also love eggs cheese yogurt ice cream steak minted lamb fish bacon sarnies a good Lincolnshire sausage or Cumberland ring and whilst i’m at it a full English. I have zero interest in solely eating a vegetarian or vegan diet and have just as much interest in converting those that do to a diet containing meat or any other animal product, mainly because I respect their decision/choices. I just wish they would respect mine and stop ramming the movement down peoples throats in all forms of media and life in general. As I said earlier “you do you and I’ll do me…simple” 

My wife has been a vegetarian as long as we've been together,  early 2000, in that time she's never tried stopping me or our kids eating meat, she knows it's part of a healthy diet, and has had to take iron tablets in order to give blood.

But her brother went vegetarian then vegan, even my wife doesn't understand it, the limitations on what you can eat, and making their kids eat a vegan diet.

We all eat vegi a few nights a week, it does no harm at all, there are some great flavours and choices,  and they all go well with meat 😁😁

Back to the Opp, PM does my head in, yes he'll ask the tough question,  but he won't let someone talk.

[Yellow Bear]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

but he won't let someone talk  if they are just avoiding answering the question I suspect

needed to add a bit 

[Mice!]

40 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

needed to add a bit 

There's certainly some of that as well, but like others have said I turned it off, because him just talking over someone seems childish then he loses credibility in my eyes.

[bostonmick]

4 hours ago, Mice! said:

 

Back to the Opp, PM does my head in, yes he'll ask the tough question,  but he won't let someone talk.

he asked a question then she launched into an attack on agriculture totally ignoring his question then when asked about the almond milk and avacados she again went off to spout her agricultural trash yet again.they do not go on these shows to give answers just their view.

[old man]

19 hours ago, Spr1985 said:

I’m aware that they’re different in meaning and reason/s but I find both groups to be just as militant with the efforts toward converting meat eaters.
 

I eat vegetables because they’re nice and taste good, I enjoy them. But,  I also love eggs cheese yogurt ice cream steak minted lamb fish bacon sarnies a good Lincolnshire sausage or Cumberland ring and whilst i’m at it a full English. I have zero interest in solely eating a vegetarian or vegan diet and have just as much interest in converting those that do to a diet containing meat or any other animal product, mainly because I respect their decision/choices. I just wish they would respect mine and stop ramming the movement down peoples throats in all forms of media and life in general. As I said earlier “you do you and I’ll do me…simple” 

Amen to that?

[johnphilip]

2 hours ago, bostonmick said:

he asked a question then she launched into an attack on agriculture totally ignoring his question then when asked about the almond milk and avacados she again went off to spout her agricultural trash yet again.they do not go on these shows to give answers just their view.

Agree 100%  . Most would loose there head with her . She would answer  questions  different  questions . Just the same reply  to everything.  No wonder he lost it  with her .

[Vince Green]

I don't get this often trotted out line that meat production is a MAJOR cause of global warming. 

Really ? So all this stuff we told about fossil fuels is all rubbish? 

[johnphilip]

33 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I don't get this often trotted out line that meat production is a MAJOR cause of global warming. 

Really ? So all this stuff we told about fossil fuels is all rubbish? 

During the lockdowns  recovid  no flights  less cars on the road  they say the air was cleaner , all the time the animals in the fields still eating and belching and breaking wind as we all do .

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Really ? So all this stuff we told about fossil fuels is all rubbish? 

Yes, and so is the bit about livestock.