BBC Begging for Begum

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Whether you want it or not, he should have said. 

He now rubs shoulders with Klaus at the WEF, the man's a disgrace, and a traitor to his country. 

I could not agree more, he's been the worst ruler this country has ever had. Lier, war munger, self serving, greedy. He doesn't possess a single redeeming trait. 

[clangerman]

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I could not agree more, he's been the worst ruler this country has ever had. Lier, war munger, self serving, greedy. He doesn't possess a single redeeming trait. 

sums up just about every tory leader to date lol 

[old man]

To be fair the blame lies squarely across the shoulders of both parties/

Our sad politicos haven't given a flying fig for anyone other than themselves?

 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, old man said:

To be fair the blame lies squarely across the shoulders of both parties/

Our sad politicos haven't given a flying fig for anyone other than themselves?

 

No they are just puppets, barking to others orders, and not those that voted for them.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

sums up just about every tory leader to date lol 

True. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Your at it again 🤣 The Tories have had 13 years to do something, anything. They have done diddly squat except cut everything to the bone. There is simply no one else to blame. 

oowee - sadly I have to agree. There comes a time when you have to accept responsibility, when you have been in power for so long. I think Labour will be bad, if not worse, but the Tories will struggle to get elected again.

[smokingdragon]

15 hours ago, oowee said:

Your at it again 🤣 The Tories have had 13 years to do something, anything. They have done diddly squat except cut everything to the bone. There is simply no one else to blame. 

Watch what is happening with the NHS. Simply no action just neglect and cut. They are incapable of making the tough decisions. 

It is scary how the government is watching and assisting the dismantling of the United kingdom values thast was once held in high esteem.

This thread contains some Wiki quotes so here is another one that looks to be what the Conservative Home Secretaries have been using as a play book. Dismantling civil liberties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_rise_to_power

 

The groundwork for the Nazi dictatorship was laid when the Reichstag was set on fire in February. Believing the communists were behind the arson, Hitler convinced Paul von Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree, which severely curtailed the liberties and rights of German citizens. Using the decree, Hitler began eliminating his political opponents. In Hitler's eyes the decree was insufficient and he proposed the Enabling Act of 1933. This law gave the German government the power to override individual rights prescribed by the constitution. The law also gave the Chancellor (Hitler) emergency powers to pass and enforce laws without parliamentary oversight. The Enabling Act was passed in March and by April, Hitler held de facto dictatorial powers and used them to order the construction of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau for communists and other political opponents.

[matone]

On 23/02/2023 at 16:27, 12gauge82 said:

We already have a two their legal system, civil law is only available to those who can afford it and it gives those who can the ability to sway all sorts of situations to their advantage. 

When it comes to terrorism, I'd like to see the gloves taken off to an extent, it already happens with regard to dealing with individuals not in the county, we have assassinated individuals considered a risk to the county fairly recently, as has the USA 

Did you never have a miss spent youth.

You should really stop reading right wing conspiracy nonsense like the guardian and try to see it from poor Begums side, it's all society's fault and she's just the victim in all this. 

Yeah...it`s never their own fault is it........

[oowee]

4 hours ago, smokingdragon said:

It is scary how the government is watching and assisting the dismantling of the United kingdom values thast was once held in high esteem.

This thread contains some Wiki quotes so here is another one that looks to be what the Conservative Home Secretaries have been using as a play book. Dismantling civil liberties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_rise_to_power

 

The groundwork for the Nazi dictatorship was laid when the Reichstag was set on fire in February. Believing the communists were behind the arson, Hitler convinced Paul von Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree, which severely curtailed the liberties and rights of German citizens. Using the decree, Hitler began eliminating his political opponents. In Hitler's eyes the decree was insufficient and he proposed the Enabling Act of 1933. This law gave the German government the power to override individual rights prescribed by the constitution. The law also gave the Chancellor (Hitler) emergency powers to pass and enforce laws without parliamentary oversight. The Enabling Act was passed in March and by April, Hitler held de facto dictatorial powers and used them to order the construction of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau for communists and other political opponents.

It is very concerning to see the slow decline of values and rights and the shift towards right wing and extreme ideologies. Unfortunately much blame rests with the political system we have. The two party first past the post system provides little in the way of checks and balances to protect the voter from populist reactionary choices. 

The proposed weakening of civil liberties of workers, protesters and asylum seekers will have huge fundamental knock on effects on individual freedoms on a par with Scottish Independence, Brexit votes changes to the NHS. There is no room for rigorous evaluation and nuanced debate when slogan politics is given free reign. 

In the short term we can only hope for a change of government. Not that a different government will ultimately be better, only that it will likely redress the swing of the pendulum of ideology. 

We need a new political system that is fit for purpose. 

[matone]

A very accurate summary of where we are now.

We`ve watched the country being wrecked to fill the pockets of the few imho.

Edited February 25, 2023 by matone

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

It is very concerning to see the slow decline of values and rights and the shift towards right wing and extreme ideologies. 

I would say the biggest drive towards extreme right wing ideologie is without doubt the left. 

The anger and resentment that is being built up in what would normally be reasonable people, due to curtailment of freedoms such as freedom of speech, being called racist, watching people getting jobs ahead of them based on colour or gender, having their religious beliefs trampled on by others rights coming first. 

The same happened in nazi Germany after the treaty of versailles, anger built up and they voted someone in who said they could solve their problems. 

I find what's happening in our society worrying, but not half as worrying as what could happen if we don't allow people the right to express themselves, have conversion on difficult topics, disagree and offend each other. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by 12gauge82

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would say the biggest drive towards extreme right wing ideologie is without doubt the left. 

The anger and resentment that is being built up in what would normally be reasonable people, due to curtailment of freedoms such as freedom of speech, being called racist, watching people getting jobs ahead of them based on colour or gender, having their religious beliefs trampled on by others rights coming first. 

The same happened in nazi Germany after the treaty of versailles, anger built up and they voted someone in who said they could solve their problems. 

I find what's happening in our society worrying, but not half as worrying as what could happen if we don't allow people the right to express themselves, have conversion on difficult topics, disagree and offend each other. 

I see your point but its the current government that is restricting freedoms. We are unable to have a sensible conversation about anything. 

[12gauge82]

Just now, oowee said:

I see your point but its the current government that is restricting freedoms. We are unable to have a sensible conversation about anything. 

Definitely, to be fair I shouldn't have said the left, I don't believe our politics are decided by left or right anymore and the cons are just as culpable as Labour under Blair. 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

In the short term we can only hope for a change of government. Not that a different government will ultimately be better, only that it will likely redress the swing of the pendulum of ideology. 

Swing it where? Into some corbynesque Marxist state, that spends its time apologising for 'colonialism' and slavery, while being so PC no one dare speak?

The only reason we had the last Labour government was because it hoodwinked the population into thinking it was really centrist, no chance of that happening again, fool us once.... 

1 minute ago, oowee said:

I see your point but its the current government that is restricting freedoms. We are unable to have a sensible conversation about anything. 

Yeah, be a lot better under labour wouldn't it? 

Man in charge can't even define a woman 😂

[amateur]

The most immediate impairment of my personal freedom will be if the socialist mayor of London imposes the extended ULEZ. None of the outer boroughs voted for him. The measure doesn't benefit the outer boroughs in any measurable way, and the current Tory government has remained absolutely silent on it.

Maggie would have done a Livingstone on him by now

[oowee]

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Swing it where? Into some corbynesque Marxist state, that spends its time apologising for 'colonialism' and slavery, while being so PC no one dare speak?

The only reason we had the last Labour government was because it hoodwinked the population into thinking it was really centrist, no chance of that happening again, fool us once.... 

Yeah, be a lot better under labour wouldn't it? 

Man in charge can't even define a woman 😂

Depends if they get two terms. First term will bring the pendulum back to the middle. Tories regroup. Labour reverts to type and new Tories is required to bring it back to the centre. It's an endless lack of direction. 

16 minutes ago, amateur said:

The most immediate impairment of my personal freedom will be if the socialist mayor of London imposes the extended ULEZ. None of the outer boroughs voted for him. The measure doesn't benefit the outer boroughs in any measurable way, and the current Tory government has remained absolutely silent on it.

Maggie would have done a Livingstone on him by now

That's inevitable whoever is in charge or....... maybe the government decides to remove the our rights to clean air? 

[Gordon R]

Khan's Ulez scheme is nothing to do with clean air. It's about revenue.

[Yellow Bear]

Just now, Gordon R said:

Khan's Ulez scheme is nothing to do with clean air. It's about revenue.

and virtue signalling

[old man]

18 hours ago, matone said:

A very accurate summary of where we are now.

We`ve watched the country being wrecked to fill the pockets of the few imho.

Agreed but how do we obtain meaningful change?

The few have their rear ends well and truly insulated by the parasites we have for politicians of all flavours?

17 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would say the biggest drive towards extreme right wing ideologie is without doubt the left. 

The anger and resentment that is being built up in what would normally be reasonable people, due to curtailment of freedoms such as freedom of speech, being called racist, watching people getting jobs ahead of them based on colour or gender, having their religious beliefs trampled on by others rights coming first. 

The same happened in nazi Germany after the treaty of versailles, anger built up and they voted someone in who said they could solve their problems. 

I find what's happening in our society worrying, but not half as worrying as what could happen if we don't allow people the right to express themselves, have conversion on difficult topics, disagree and offend each other. 

Personally think the resentment is aimed at all parties?

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, old man said:

 

Personally think the resentment is aimed at all parties?

Definitely, let's be honest l, there's currently no main parties that represent the average person, both Labour and the Cons have/would force through all sorts of legislation that the vast majority of the public don't want. Green taxation, mass immigration, woke laws curtailing freedom of speech and discrimination in employment and other laws protecting defined characteristics ahead of everyone else, taxation leaving the working worse off than those on benefits, laws that benefit the super rich at the expense of everyone else, Attempts to block brexit against a clear mandate by the people to leave the EU, weak punishment for serious criminals. The list is endless, I could go on for pages. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Definitely, let's be honest l, there's currently no main parties that represent the average person, both Labour and the Cons have/would force through all sorts of legislation that the vast majority of the public don't want. Green taxation, mass immigration, woke laws curtailing freedom of speech and discrimination in employment and other laws protecting defined characteristics ahead of everyone else, taxation leaving the working worse off than those on benefits, laws that benefit the super rich at the expense of everyone else, Attempts to block brexit against a clear mandate by the people to leave the EU, weak punishment for serious criminals. The list is endless, I could go on for pages. 

Oh yes, long gone are the days of playing to the majority, these days all of the minorities are king!

[old man]

38 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Definitely, let's be honest l, there's currently no main parties that represent the average person, both Labour and the Cons have/would force through all sorts of legislation that the vast majority of the public don't want. Green taxation, mass immigration, woke laws curtailing freedom of speech and discrimination in employment and other laws protecting defined characteristics ahead of everyone else, taxation leaving the working worse off than those on benefits, laws that benefit the super rich at the expense of everyone else, Attempts to block brexit against a clear mandate by the people to leave the EU, weak punishment for serious criminals. The list is endless, I could go on for pages. 

Just an illustration of their playground?

I'm sure they need another pay rise to ease their incompetence?

[Vince Green]

On 25/02/2023 at 18:41, oowee said:

 

That's inevitable whoever is in charge or....... maybe the government decides to remove the our rights to clean air? 

The ULEZ is nothing to do with clean air. It's to force people onto public transport for reasons of woke social engineering. The present ULEZ has actually increased air pollution in London because they have deliberately slowed down the traffic and made people drive round more because they can't park.

Bloke on the radio, some Councillor from Sheffield justifying Sheffields ULEZ said 500 people a year die in Sheffield from air pollution. That's an out and out lie. No proof of one death let alone 500.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Vince Green

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

That's an out and out lie.

I don't disagree at all - but lies (all of them), spin (predominantly started by Blair &Co) and soundbites (a Johnson speciality, though not limited to him) are all one expects from the current crop of politicians.

[Vince Green]

The main issue with Begum is not whether or not she should be allowed back in ( I don't think she should) What is she going to do if we let her back? She will be a liability and the press will hound her every day

But there are plenty of others who also went and have already been allowed back in and are now living probably at our expense and costing the police a fortune to keep tabs on them for the rest of their lives.