Foreign cartridges

[Fargo]

Do people think over time we will go back to mostly English makers?

Seems Rottweil, Winchester, Rio, Nobel, Victory have gone from being sold here and most shops seem to stock Hull, Gbore or Express.

 

[Stephen-H]

Good post 👍 think it will also be a race for the manufacturers to be producing good quality steel cartridges at a reasonable "ish" prices 

[Fellside]

47 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Do people think over time we will go back to mostly English makers?

Seems Rottweil, Winchester, Rio, Nobel, Victory have gone from being sold here and most shops seem to stock Hull, Gbore or Express.

 

Fiocchi and RC have done well in the UK. I suppose there will be local differences - but near me there is a big Fiocchi presence. 

[Fargo]

23 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Fiocchi and RC have done well in the UK. I suppose there will be local differences - but near me there is a big Fiocchi presence. 

Yes Rc here they still are very popular in the fibre wad 20 and 12 game loads but Fiocchi nope.

Used be a big Winchester and Rottweil area till 15-18 years back

[Poor Shot]

The more competition the better IMO.

The current market could use a foreign alternative coming in at a much cheaper rate to upset the current racket and force a correction.

We're paying near £290/thousand for superfasts for ****s sake!

[Fargo]

2 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

The more competition the better IMO.

The current market could use a foreign alternative coming in at a much cheaper rate to upset the current racket and force a correction.

We're paying near £290/thousand for superfasts for ****s sake!

I agree and all directors of these companies are driving round in 110k motors but the same as any lucrative business.

Also I was shooting pheasant in Hungary in 2019 and I could buy black gold 30/5 cheaper there than here despite being exported 1500 miles or so… They all seem hell bent on bringing out more BS cartridges that new money and/or inexperienced believe they need. 

[Fargo]

Same as these I purchase in DK for clays. Cheaper than U.K. equivalent.

[hawkfanz]

jaguar are loaded by gamebore,or the ones i have here are.

[Fargo]

38 minutes ago, hawkfanz said:

jaguar are loaded by gamebore,or the ones i have here are.

Correct. They have a lot of good steel in DK but we can’t have it here due to cip regs.

Still baffles me how we seem to pay more though

[TOPGUN749]

We certainly have lost a lot of products in the uk,such as Winchester that was a big seller in the 80’s. As for prices I believe it’s Europe fleecing us for leaving the corrupt club!

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, talking of cartridges I heard George has ceased trading , proper cartridges 🤔

[HantsRob]

I bought some RC Romagnola's in Greenfields about a year ago, for £215 when everything else was around £240. I wish I had emptied their shelves as it was one of the best carts in the budget range I've owned!

I am a fan of Fiocchi also. Not a huge Hull fan but they seem to be dominating in the south. 

I do shoot some Eley unbranded (or re-branded?) cheap-o's. Still better than superfast and english sporters though for recoil in my opinion.

[grahamch]

23 hours ago, Fargo said:

Same as these I purchase in DK for clays. Cheaper than U.K. equivalent.

Can we get these in the uk?

Could some one explain how 24g of steel is outside oyr uk proof rules? 

Are the current rules fit for purpose, they seem to be ovetly restrctive and limit our choice of non lead ammo

[Fargo]

27 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Can we get these in the uk?

Could some one explain how 24g of steel is outside oyr uk proof rules? 

Are the current rules fit for purpose, they seem to be ovetly restrctive and limit our choice of non lead ammo

Nope. I bought them in Denmark when was over there working . 

My friends used a 3” 28gr 4 steel going super fast to shoot everything from Roe deer to geese to pigeons 

[Gas seal]

Hi l have used Jaguar steel cartridges in 20gauge . Now not available in U.K.  Cartridges made in U.K. will be primer and case and maybe powder from France . Plastic wads and maybe lead from Italy. The box would be from U.K. or China . Then it would be the availability and cost. The manufacturers in this country will be looking at non lead cartridge production with bio wads and we could see more U.K. cartridges made.

 

[Salmo]

Aye proper are all over allegedly the police have taken all his tickets from him 

[HantsRob]

12 hours ago, grahamch said:

Can we get these in the uk?

Could some one explain how 24g of steel is outside oyr uk proof rules? 

I believe the UK loads to a "lower standard" and therefore an international standard steel shot could be consider HP in UK terms. In this example, the Danish load is "standard" to them but would be "HP" to us, but not marked or warned as such. So, whilst your gun may be able to shoot lead, if it's not HP proofed then shooting those loads could damage your gun.

[Poor Shot]

Quote

I agree and all directors of these companies are driving round in 110k motors but the same as any lucrative business.

Also I was shooting pheasant in Hungary in 2019 and I could buy black gold 30/5 cheaper there than here despite being exported 1500 miles or so… They all seem hell bent on bringing out more BS cartridges that new money and/or inexperienced believe they need. 

I'm not all that bothered about directors having fancy cars and renumeration packages, after all it's them who took the risk to start up and/or control the company. 

What seems to be the issue from the outside is that most UK manufacturers seem to import nearly all of their components with only a select few manufacturing their own shot for example. I doubt any manufacture their own cases, wads, powders or primers. They aren't really manufacturers but final stage assembly plants (as are most car manufacturers). 

All of this needs to be imported from Europe and ROTW from the likes of Cheddite who, in additional to controlling prices to enable their own assembled cartridges to be competitive with a healthy margin, have to import these components into the UK which will be subject to tariffs, red tape and the vastly inflated shipping costs we now see. This all gets passed onto the consumer as price increases. 

What we really need to see happen is some strong competition from outside of the UK which may force the UK manufacturers to reconsider their supply chains and invest in bringing more of it in house. 

I doubt that we'll ever see this happen due to the costs of importing, proofing and shipping of assembled ammunition into the UK from the far east. I'd bet that the UK manufacturers would lobby strongly against this also. They're on a good screw at the moment and I doubt they would give it up easily. The UK is also a very small and continually shrinking market compared to elsewhere in the world. 

The above and that nearly every AAA, AA or even A class shooter with a good social media following seems to be sponsored these days. That must cost a pretty penny to be supplying a couple hundred shooters with a lot of free or heavily discounted cartridges which everyone else pays for.  

[Pushandpull]

There is still this strange idea that a fleur-de-lys somehow protects your gun from HP steel and the lack of one automatically puts you at risk Now I see the virtue of proof, but I cannot believe that the world's major manufacturers suddenly started making extra-strong barrels just for the UK market in response to this new level of proof here. Older and lighter ones might well be at risk but (say) Beretta SPs ?    This paranoia started thirty odd years ago and we are still gripped by it.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

that the world's major manufacturers suddenly started making extra-strong barrels just for the UK market in response to this new level of proof here

The CIP counts 14 countries' proof houses as members.

But I agree with your post.  Have purchased a bargain Benelli Montelfeltro, cheap due to a lack of fleur-de-lys.  Will not lose any sleep putting HP steel through it, if necessary.  My ancient AYA SxS....maybe not.

As for the OP's point.  Final assembly in the UK will likely always be the case, unless shipping to the UK gets drastically cheaper soon.

[ninjaferret]

16 hours ago, Salmo said:

Aye proper are all over allegedly the police have taken all his tickets from him 

Not a fit and proper person by all accounts......

[mgsontour]

17 hours ago, Salmo said:

Aye proper are all over allegedly the police have taken all his tickets from him 

That's what I heard too, he had 5 weeks grace about a month ago-ish so should be closed by now

[matone]

2 hours ago, Pushandpull said:

There is still this strange idea that a fleur-de-lys somehow protects your gun from HP steel and the lack of one automatically puts you at risk Now I see the virtue of proof, but I cannot believe that the world's major manufacturers suddenly started making extra-strong barrels just for the UK market in response to this new level of proof here. Older and lighter ones might well be at risk but (say) Beretta SPs ?    This paranoia started thirty odd years ago and we are still gripped by it.

This in spades!!! 

[Salmo]

On 18/05/2023 at 10:00, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, talking of cartridges I heard George has ceased trading , proper cartridges 🤔

I heard the same 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I do not think will will go back to pre COVID and when in the EU prices, remember the Decathlon saga,??