Terrible news again

[Dave-G]

53 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Perhaps something to ponder is, is the U.K. knife crime “culture” a result of race or social class, lacking opportunity, disillusionment etc.?

I suspect there’s a tendency to reflect on the machete / knife culture we see in Africa and project that here as “their” culture. But again is it a result of culture or class, I think if you look into it you’ll see that the middle and upper classes in African countries aren’t going around stabbing and chopping one another up, it’s the work of their lower social classes (just like here).
 

This is probably your only comment I can easily agree with. I'd say that aspect is also endemic in some middle east countries.

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

This is probably your only comment I can easily agree with. I'd say that aspect is also endemic in some middle east countries.

I think you may have missed the point.

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think you may have missed the point.

So may you, as it is not, generally speaking, the middle and upper classes that are coming illegally. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Prime Minister, Ministers and Police Chiefs all saying how naughty these rioters are without actually appearing to understand why some people are doing this.

Let's have a reality check for those in charge.

[johnphilip]

I think Starmer will go down in history as the worst PM we havev had , in his short time as PM .

You can see by expression on his. Face,  he is totally lost , a puppet and someone pulling his strings. 

You can see by his face even he does not belive what he is say  , a weak leader .

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

So may you, as it is not, generally speaking, the middle and upper classes that are coming illegally. 

Talking cross purposes maybe. I was referring to home grown knife crime, as is the case with the Southport atrocity.

Not sure how I miss the point of a point I’ve introduced but never mind.

What have illegal immigrants got to do with the Southport incident. Rhetorical question, no need to answer.

[Wymondley]

37 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

A question --- would we be having the discussion as to whether of not this is a racist incident if the pigmentation on both sides was reversed?

I suggest not, as the MSM would be screaming "racist attack", and herein lies the bulk of the problem.

Spot on. 

 

56 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Perhaps something to ponder is, is the U.K. knife crime “culture” a result of race or social class, lacking opportunity, disillusionment etc.?

Leaving aside stabbings due to religious reasons, most black knife crime is a result of "tribalism", and that's very cultural.

What I mean is gang control of postcodes, usually for the supply of drugs, it would seem there's no lack of opportunity there.

It seems to me this gang and drug culture has only grown with the recent rise in immigration from African countries, an area that's no stranger to inter tribal conflict.

What's happened that makes young black teens aspire to be Gangstas or rappers (that rap about being Gangstas), rather than doctors, engineers or even footballers, is it the culture that surrounds them?

Successive governments have been too afraid of the race card and failed to ensure that immigrants should integrate and adhere to British values and culture, instead allowing them to form their own enclave's taking all the benefits of living in Britain whilst contributing very little.

The real problem is we can't even have a sensible discussion about race or religion in this country without someone being offended and it being shut down.

 

 

 

 

[Westley]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Prime Minister, Ministers and Police Chiefs all saying how naughty these rioters are without actually appearing to understand why some people are doing this.

Let's have a reality check for those in charge.

And not one of them have the sphericals to tell those in the front line to 'sort it'. Those Police Officers are now restricted in their actions by the repercussions of 'sorting it'......Manchester Airport is just one example.  There is currently another video on YouTube regarding an arrest in Southport, of a male suspected of having a knife. Two idiots are actually chasing the Police vehicles, on foot, street to street, just so they can film it on their phones. There were so many idiots filming during the Southport riot, can you imagine the outcome if one of them had been batoned   ? In my view ANYBODY there is equally as guilty as those throwing the missiles, and should be treated as such. Time to stop the 'innocent bystanders'  ?   Those actually committing the offences, are hiding behind the camera crowd.

[Gordon R]

It isn't universally popular with some, but "Joint Venture" needs to be applied.

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Talking cross purposes maybe. I was referring to home grown knife crime, as is the case with the Southport atrocity.

Not sure how I miss the point of a point I’ve introduced but never mind.

What have illegal immigrants got to do with the Southport incident. Rhetorical question, no need to answer.

'Home grown' is missing the point that some scum hate our home grown.

[Raja Clavata]

18 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

Spot on. 

 

Leaving aside stabbings due to religious reasons, most black knife crime is a result of "tribalism", and that's very cultural.

What I mean is gang control of postcodes, usually for the supply of drugs, it would seem there's no lack of opportunity there.

It seems to me this gang and drug culture has only grown with the recent rise in immigration from African countries, an area that's no stranger to inter tribal conflict.

What's happened that makes young black teens aspire to be Gangstas or rappers (that rap about being Gangstas), rather than doctors, engineers or even footballers, is it the culture that surrounds them?

Successive governments have been too afraid of the race card and failed to ensure that immigrants should integrate and adhere to British values and culture, instead allowing them to form their own enclave's taking all the benefits of living in Britain whilst contributing very little.

The real problem is we can't even have a sensible discussion about race or religion in this country without someone being offended and it being shut down.

 

 

 

 

In East London the firms preceded the gangs, I grew up surrounded by muppets who idolised the likes of the Krays claiming to in some way be related to them. 

Then the likes of that absolute scumbag Tony Tucker emerged who basically went around smashing up anyone unlucky enough to pass within his reach. 

The demographic may have shifted but it’s still based on criminality. And young black males certainly don’t have a monopoly on the gangster/rap culture, even if they are the majority.

Tribalism is engrained in British culture too, take football for example. Hooliganism was another thing us teenagers in the early 80s had to deal with. 

The immigration issue is massive but it’s not the cause of all our issues.

12 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

'Home grown' is missing the point that some scum hate our home grown.

I believe it’s a different point, but OK.

[Dave-G]

7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

In East London the firms preceded the gangs, I grew up surrounded by muppets who idolised the likes of the Krays claiming to in some way be related to them. 

Then the likes of that absolute scumbag Tony Tucker emerged who basically went around smashing up anyone unlucky enough to pass within his reach. 

The demographic may have shifted but it’s still based on criminality. And young black males certainly don’t have a monopoly on the gangster/rap culture, even if they are the majority.

Tribalism is engrained in British culture too, take football for example. Hooliganism was another thing us teenagers in the early 80s had to deal with. 

The immigration issue is massive but it’s not the cause of all our issues.

I believe it’s a different point, but OK.

That the second post of yours I can agree with... shtoppit now. :-)

[henry d]

On 01/08/2024 at 22:48, B686 said:

...it’s nearly always people of this ethnic group.

Dunblane, Plymouth, Mary Bell, Letby, Michael Atherton, Derek Bird...

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

That the second post of yours I can agree with... shtoppit now. 🙂

We’s on a roll Bruv, innit 😝

[Dave-G]

1 minute ago, henry d said:

Dunblane, Plymouth, Mary Bell, Letby, Michael Atherton, Derek Bird...

BUT they aren't the one's getting special allowances, tolerance and cover-ups by authorities and MSM.

[old man]

1 hour ago, Wymondley said:

Spot on. 

 

Leaving aside stabbings due to religious reasons, most black knife crime is a result of "tribalism", and that's very cultural.

What I mean is gang control of postcodes, usually for the supply of drugs, it would seem there's no lack of opportunity there.

It seems to me this gang and drug culture has only grown with the recent rise in immigration from African countries, an area that's no stranger to inter tribal conflict.

What's happened that makes young black teens aspire to be Gangstas or rappers (that rap about being Gangstas), rather than doctors, engineers or even footballers, is it the culture that surrounds them?

Successive governments have been too afraid of the race card and failed to ensure that immigrants should integrate and adhere to British values and culture, instead allowing them to form their own enclave's taking all the benefits of living in Britain whilst contributing very little.

The real problem is we can't even have a sensible discussion about race or religion in this country without someone being offended and it being shut down.

 

 

 

Maybe the most obvious attraction is the easy access to lots of money coupled with the willingness of many followers willing to bolster the leaders as a hopeful ladder to money and big cars themselves? Easy culture, no work etc?

It's certainly true that it's now impossible to have any meaningful discussion that would be essential to find any possible solutions?

Edited August 3 by old man

[Gordon R]

Quote

Dunblane, Plymouth, Mary Bell, Letby, Michael Atherton, Derek Bird...

henry d - you are in danger of letting facts cloud the issue. 🙂 You missed Harold Shipman.

[Mice!]

49 minutes ago, henry d said:

Dunblane, Plymouth, Mary Bell, Letby, Michael Atherton, Derek Bird...

Have you gone back far enough? You missed out Hungerford 🙄 I'd never heard of Mary Bell, because I wasn't born!

Of course there have been home bred killers, Huntly, Shipman, Brady and Hindley, Dunblane then Letby, they always shock people with the usual changes will be made line rolled out, yet the Plymouth shootings are very similar to Dunblane, bad policing where someone shouldn't have had a gun.

The London attacks, Manchester bombing, Southport stabbings and many others all have the same things in common, and the violence is getting more common as more immigrants are being brought into the country and spread around the country, yet people showing concern about this are deemed racists, it doesn't mean your racist, it means that your worried about the future your kids will have.

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Tribalism is engrained in British culture too, take football for example. Hooliganism was another thing us teenagers in the early 80s had to deal with. 

I've only known one person who turned out to be a football hooligan, and it was quite a shock to a few of us when we went watching a game one time.

[Raja Clavata]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I've only known one person who turned out to be a football hooligan, and it was quite a shock to a few of us when we went watching a game one time.

We had West Ham ICF etc. around here, some of whom were more middle than working class. Even a former England Captain used to knock around with some of them. We digress.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Tribalism is engrained in British culture too, take football for example. Hooliganism was another thing us teenagers in the early 80s had to deal with. 

Then perhaps harsher sentences is the answer, it worked on football violence.

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

henry d - you are in danger of letting facts cloud the issue. 🙂 You missed Harold Shipman.

Now THAT is someone,  who should have become a Prison Doctor  !

[Westley]

7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Then perhaps harsher sentences is the answer, it worked on football violence.

We saw very little football violence in Liverpool. We acted swiftly and robustly in dealing with it. There is a large park that separates the 2 grounds, perfect for the opposing supporters to meet. It is also perfect for 'Cavalry charges' and Police Dog 'exercising '........  sorted  !

[Flashman]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Dunblane, Plymouth, Mary Bell, Letby, Michael Atherton, Derek Bird...

They were all before the mass illegal migration that is being discussed.  

Since 9/11, across Europe we’ve had Madrid, London, Borough Market, London Bridge, Lee Rigby, Shoe Bomber…

France have had more than I can count and India have had so many, it’s changed (improving) their relationship with Israel because of their shared terrorist experiences. 

"None so blind as those who will not see.”

[Mungler]

And don’t forget to pro-rata the stats, that shows up where the disproportions are….

Ditto for prison populations.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

An awful lot of protests going on around the country, perhaps the strength of feeling might even be noticed by those in charge and possibly they might start to deal with it all.

Liverpool, Leeds, Hull, Nottingham, Stoke on Trent and Manchester.