Penelope Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Evidently, legislation is being fast tracked to renationalise the railways. Supposedly, a popular action with the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Hello, from what I read it is a total shambles now let alone if it goes back into Public Ownership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 33 minutes ago, Penelope said: Evidently, legislation is being fast tracked to renationalise the railways. Supposedly, a popular action with the public. could it be any worse than what we have got already ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 The railways are already nationalised; a single government-owned entity runs and operates the track, signalling and most of the stations. They just have franchises operating the actual passenger and freight services. I wonder how much buying out the franchisees is going to cost the taxpayer, rather than just letting them lapse and not re-tendering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 12 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: I wonder how much buying out the franchisees is going to cost the taxpayer, rather than just letting them lapse and not re-tendering? A number of them are already lapsed and in government hands (and did so under the Conservatives). The last I read, Labours plan was to let them lapse and then take over the running themselves - so from that angle, no cost to the tax payer. However, one major issue is that the companies who own the franchises don't own any rolling stock - it's all leased from another company(s). So there's supposedly a fair cost involved there. As somone who takes the train to work - the service has got ever worse and ever more expensive. That said, I use to have to stand all the way between Stoke and Birmingham on a near daily basis - that was about ten years ago... On another note - recently every three hour journey to Bradford has turned into five hours plus. Personally, I'm not a fan of nationalisation - but they would have to try very hard (and I'm not saying it's beyond them) to make it more inefficient. But then again, I never had to deal with British Rail as an adult... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 (edited) 44 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: I wonder how much buying out the franchisees is going to cost the taxpayer, rather than just letting them lapse and not re-tendering? As far as I knew that still remains the process. That the tenders will be allowed to expire. The present system is dire though. On dual franchise routes such as the one that passes through Reading I have known clients where the train operator they hold a ticket for has cancelled that train and they have not been allowed to travel on the other providers service. Thus having to either miss their Eurostar connection or pay a "walk on" new ticket with the other operator at £120 each. The system is not aboit providing a train service it has become about corporate grifting and the normalisation of that by paying the employees commission on ticket sales so as to incentivise that culture of making profit from a traveller's misfortune. I guess we can still thank Almighty God that Michael O'Leary never operated a franchise. Edited September 3 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 (edited) I have also had a short notice had to take over a colleagues work. For a 10.30am London arrival. They lived in Derby which is north or where I live in Leicester. That route is the London to Derby via Leicester so the same train and the same operator to arrive in London at the needed 10.30am. So I called and asked "Can I get on at Leicester with my colleague's Derby ticket as it will be exact the same train I need to catch?" "No. You will have to buy a ticket from Leicester to Derby travel to Derby and get on the train at Derby." "OK. In that case can I just buy the Leicester to Derby ticket so you don't lose revenue, but surrender it to you at Leicester and not actually make the journey but just get on when that Derby train arrives, please?" "No. You will have to use the ticket and travel to Derby." "Well in that case you are a bunch of idiots." So I for one am glad that these greedy grasping folk of the Souter family and others will be cancelled when the franchises lapse. Edited September 3 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 32 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: OK. In that case can I just buy the Leicester to Derby ticket so you don't lose revenue, but surrender it to you at Leicester and not actually make the journey but just get on when that Derby train arrives, please?" I probably wouldn't have asked, guessing it's an E ticket I would just have had the colleague send me the ticket, you've paid for the seat after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, ditchman said: could it be any worse than what we have got already ? Yes, have you forgotten pre nationalisation - on strike more than running and time tables to suit staff not passengers. The only way they will do it cheaper is massive taxpayer subsidisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 I think the old British Rail was better known as Strike Rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, PeterHenry said: but they would have to try very hard (and I'm not saying it's beyond them) to make it more inefficient. They won't have to try hard to make it worse because they have a natural talent for making things worse. The old British Rail was slow, dirty, expensive and subject to frequent cancellations - of which by far the greatest were due to 'industrial action'. Subsequent (my experience is limited really to Great Western into Paddington) are slow, slightly better times due to better trains, dirty reasonably clean, still expensive and subject to frequent cancellations rather less subject to cancellations (although I haven't used them in the recent - last 12 months or so- disputes). What nationalisation will do is pay more to the (100% unionised and already well paid) staff, keep inefficient working due to restrictive working practices, and hide the fact that it is all costing more to run with subsidies from the non rail travelling public - very possibly by further raids on pensioners, motorists, self employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted September 3 Author Report Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said: Yes, have you forgotten pre nationalisation - on strike more than running and time tables to suit staff not passengers. The only way they will do it cheaper is massive taxpayer subsidisation. 👍 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: They won't have to try hard to make it worse because they have a natural talent for making things worse. The old British Rail was slow, dirty, expensive and subject to frequent cancellations - of which by far the greatest were due to 'industrial action'. Subsequent (my experience is limited really to Great Western into Paddington) are slow, slightly better times due to better trains, dirty reasonably clean, still expensive and subject to frequent cancellations rather less subject to cancellations (although I haven't used them in the recent - last 12 months or so- disputes). What nationalisation will do is pay more to the (100% unionised and already well paid) staff, keep inefficient working due to restrictive working practices, and hide the fact that it is all costing more to run with subsidies from the non rail travelling public - very possibly by further raids on pensioners, motorists, self employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Gordon Bennett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 5 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: The railways are already nationalised; a single government-owned entity runs and operates the track, signalling and most of the stations. They just have franchises operating the actual passenger and freight services. I wonder how much buying out the franchisees is going to cost the taxpayer, rather than just letting them lapse and not re-tendering? Yep and in the rush to achieve it the tax payers will be reamed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Give it to the Germans? Let them run it for us. 😁 Or the Dutch their trains all seem to work properly. I cannot understand why it's so hard to get a system that works. When I go to the continent not only do the trains work but when they arrive there is a bus to take you to the next part of the journey. I can't see the govt getting to grips with such a heavy unionised system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, oowee said: Give it to the Germans? Let them run it for us. 😁 Or the Dutch their trains all seem to work properly. I cannot understand why it's so hard to get a system that works. When I go to the continent not only do the trains work but when they arrive there is a bus to take you to the next part of the journey. I can't see the govt getting to grips with such a heavy unionised system. they have already tried that ...it was called the E bleedin U......remember when the sausage munchers "won" the contract to buid our trains...their bid was the lowest 'cause the German govt subserdised them in the tender process.... thus stuffing our manufacting ...was it Bombardier ?.....who ended up with the little bits and pieces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 On 03/09/2024 at 10:44, ditchman said: could it be any worse than what we have got already ? Many people thought that of a Labour government............................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 55 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Many people thought that of a Labour government............................ Hhhahhahahaha.............well spotted.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 The trouble appears to be that this Labour Government is running on socialist / Communist dogma rather than intelligence and a balanced approach. State control of every aspect of our lives nationalise the railways, net zero, ban legitimate landlords from evicting tenants. etc. All out of the Looney Left wing songbook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 7 minutes ago, Vince Green said: The trouble appears to be that this Labour Government is running on socialist / Communist dogma rather than intelligence and a balanced approach. The privatised model we have clearly does not work. Like much of the privatised estate (water, generation, distribution) the process was driven by dogma and short term expediancy. The public deserve a better service but I can't see state owned being the way to go. At the same time we don't want we have, both poor performance and foreign ownership as we have now. The EU is pushing hard to liberalise railways in Europe and encourage integration across country borders. We need to encourage this also and allow trains to move freely with demand. Privatising seems to be pushing against the grain but its almost inevitable with the set up we currently have. I would hope its an opportune stop gap, whilst we have a rethink. Reversing the process looks very unlikely under labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 Was just greed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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