Following on from the Budget, why shouldn't Farmers pay inheritance tax like the rest of us?

[yates]

10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

As quoted this week … oh how difficult to inherit a multiple million pound asset and have to pay about £100k inheritance tax. 
 

Dyson, Clarkson, various Oligaph’s, owners of giant sporting estates, just a big tax avoidance. 
 

Perhaps now we will see the value of farm land more realistic against the food / resource it produces? 

This

[ehb102]

The thing that no one wants to talk about is that farmers do us the favour. The population needs to eat. We can't always rely on cheap imports of food and if we relied wholey on them we would starve. What happens if something happens and imports are no longer possible? War, environmental changes, anything out of a John Wyndham book. 

Then again farmers are being slightly disingenuous. If you set your farm up in a trust so it may only be a farm and it is protected so you may never sell any part of the land, it must always remain a farm then you can't just sell off a few acres for a couple of houses every time you want to marry off a daughter or buy a new milking parlour. They want that autonomy. And that would mean having it both ways. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And you CAN'T have it both ways.

I know Farms that have bits sold off to buy the retiring farmer somewhere to live.

It really does need sorting out, to stop the countless farms bought in little pockets and just to avoid various taxes that everyone else is subject to.

[Vince Green]

I don't suppose many people on here have any appreciation of how difficult or how much time it takes to sell a farm? Virtually nobody has the money or the experience to buy a farm outright

Very few people would want to. Except the existing family.

 So in the past families have been allowed to hand them down to the next generation for continuity

Otherwise they are likely to get bought up by developers and nobody wants that.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

27 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I don't suppose many people on here have any appreciation of how difficult or how much time it takes to sell a farm? Virtually nobody has the money or the experience to buy a farm outright Very few people would want to. Except the existing family. So in the past families have been allowed to hand them down to the next generation for continuity. Otherwise they are likely to get bought up by developers and nobody wants that.

Oh I quite agree, but I would also suggest very few people can quite understand how this has gone on for so long?

Clarkson's point that he had purchased farmland due to the tax opportunities is very far form an isolated instance.

Far too many small farms have been purchased to increase the size of other small farms exactly to take advantage of the tax opportunities and it would appear the game is coming to an end unless you go down the 7 year route.

[old man]

On 10/11/2024 at 07:31, bruno22rf said:

I think that it's disgusting, Charlie boy just got a £54 million increase when some elderly folk are freezing and living off food banks - how can this be in this day and age? We are living like slaves the same as we have always done but someday the tide will turn I'm sure.

Sorry to burst your bubble but not a chance of improvement for the ordinary. 

We are being destroyed from within?

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Clarkson's point that he had purchased farmland due to the tax opportunities is very far form an isolated instance.

This is correct, but lets look at the reasons;

Most of us earn money throughout our adult lives and this comes in different amounts and is spent differently as people wish.  It is taxed when people earn it, and it is (mainly) taxed when people spend it.

Some people have to spend most of it on 'living' with little surplus.

Some people have the opportunity to choose to spend some on 'living' and have a surplus above basic living spent on 'wasting assets' (being those that don't gain monetary value, but loose much or all of their value over their lifetimes) such as travel, white goods, entertainments, consumables etc.

Some people have the opportunity to choose to spend some on 'living' and have a surplus which they choose to spend on 'appreciating' assets and save in a variety of forms, shares, property, pensions, gold, bitcoin etc.  They also sometimes build businesses.  Often this saving is done because they wish to help their family, but this is penalised by taxes and restrictions on giving.  Basically you can only 'give' very limited amount (£3000) instantly, or have to do it with 7 years  before the gift can be tax free.  If you 'give' a capital asset (e.g. property) thisn is treated as a 'disposal' on which you have realised value - and as such will potentially be subject to capital gains tax (CGT).

When people die, any savings, assets remaining, are taxed at a 'standard' level of 40% over a threshold (around £375K, but with other provisions).  This has to be paid before the estate has been released, and IF it involves selling an asset (e.g. a farm) the sale cannot happen until the tax has been paid.  This can be very difficult as it can require a bridging loan - which is itself an expensive way to borrow.  Potentially, selling a farm (which takes a long time) can be a VERY expensive exercise if it is sold to release funds to pay tax.

It my view, everyone should be able to pay the tax on their money when it is earned (income tax and NI), went it is spent (VAT, excise duty, stamp duty, insurance tax, air passenger tax, and the string of other taxes that exist on spending.

Saving and retaining businesses and business should be encouraged and taxed minimally or not at all.  The money people save is the working capital used by businesses and retaining and encouraging small businesses is where real Growth comes from, not more and more Gov't spending through a bloated and inefficient State and Civil Service, which only fuels inflation.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh I quite agree, but I would also suggest very few people can quite understand how this has gone on for so long?

Clarkson's point that he had purchased farmland due to the tax opportunities is very far form an isolated instance.

Far too many small farms have been purchased to increase the size of other small farms exactly to take advantage of the tax opportunities and it would appear the game is coming to an end unless you go down the 7 year route.

Not everyone has Clarkson's ability to turn their farm into a reality TV series. If Clarkson is earning money from his farm I doubt very much that its from what it grows

Also his farm shop has people queuing to get it but not because they want to buy potatoes and carrots. Most of the stuff on the shelves is heavily merchandised with the name of the shop.

[countryman]

We are only a small island with a growing Foreign population, the Government need land to build more houses on, you can not make it so farm land is in there sights.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

35 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Not everyone has Clarkson's ability to turn their farm into a reality TV series. If Clarkson is earning money from his farm I doubt very much that its from what it grows

Also his farm shop has people queuing to get it but not because they want to buy potatoes and carrots. Most of the stuff on the shelves is heavily merchandised with the name of the shop.

The "Clarkson" effect is well known.

Strangely people go in the hope of meeting him, struggle to park because so many others seem to of the same mindset.

Buy something in an odd way of compensating themselves and go back to what they should have been doing.

All rather hard for me to understand this "celebrity" thing.

[Jaymo]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

All rather hard for me to understand this "celebrity" thing.

What do you mean? You love meeting me each time 🤣🤣

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

What do you mean? You love meeting me each time 🤣🤣

Oh! I wasn't aware you were one of those? 

[Jaymo]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh! I wasn't aware you were one of those? 

Well. Don’t like the fuss really so I keep myself low key 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I must ask you for an autograph, could you send one on a blank cheque?

[Scully]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

Far too many small farms have been purchased to increase the size of other small farms exactly to take advantage of the tax opportunities. 

Have you got a link from where you got this information? 

[Jaymo]

16 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I must ask you for an autograph, could you send one on a blank cheque?

Sorry dear chap, used the last one to pay for the mother in laws funeral- she’s not dead yet mind you, just wanted her to know that I was thinking of her!!! 

[39TDS]

4 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I don't suppose many people on here have any appreciation of how difficult or how much time it takes to sell a farm? Virtually nobody has the money or the experience to buy a farm outright

I do. It took me over 5 years, a lot of hard work, a lot of stress and sleepless nights. Had to learn new languages in order to converse with lawyers, estate agents, accountants and also had to live in a caravan for 3 years in someone else's garden.

Only 2 interested parties, one had no money and the other was indeed a developer. That land is lost to farming now.

[B686]

Slightly off topic but on the subject of farm land being developed I used to rent a farm cottage with my ex and we lived there for about 10 years me and my ex split up a year after I left it was all sold . The farmer that had been there for 2 generations had to go and a while after  6 the 8 families who also rented properties were all given section 21 and had to get out . This was because the multi multi millionaire who bought the farm wanted to do the property’s up to get more rent money. A few years down the line now he has put in for planning for get this 4500 houses including a school and other things . I think the farm is about 1100acres. Whether he gets it or not is another question, but he is a very very rich man and we all know money talks . Hammonds farm development it’s called. This person who bought it isn’t a farmer apparently got a lot of his money by developing a program for mobile phone billing or something along those lines. Some people just seem to never have enough money no matter how much they have.

seems its only 3000 houses now but a large industrial area also.

Edited Wednesday at 14:01 by B686

[Penelope]

49 minutes ago, B686 said:

Slightly off topic but on the subject of farm land being developed I used to rent a farm cottage with my ex and we lived there for about 10 years me and my ex split up a year after I left it was all sold . The farmer that had been there for 2 generations had to go and a while after  6 the 8 families who also rented properties were all given section 21 and had to get out . This was because the multi multi millionaire who bought the farm wanted to do the property’s up to get more rent money. A few years down the line now he has put in for planning for get this 4500 houses including a school and other things . I think the farm is about 1100acres. Whether he gets it or not is another question, but he is a very very rich man and we all know money talks . Hammonds farm development it’s called. This person who bought it isn’t a farmer apparently got a lot of his money by developing a program for mobile phone billing or something along those lines. Some people just seem to never have enough money no matter how much they have.

seems its only 3000 houses now but a large industrial area also.

I'm sure that I have seen signs up against the Hammond's Farm development.

[ShootingEgg]

I guess people on here happy to see farm's be built on aren't fussed about the land they shoot on hey..

 

This is a huge political land grab. WEF agenda and project 2030.

I am sure we will all be compliant eating laboratory made food and cheap imports soon.

Edited Wednesday at 17:13 by ShootingEgg

[islandgun]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

I guess people on here happy to see farm's be built on aren't fussed about the land they shoot on hey..

 

This is a huge political land grab. WF agenda and project 2030.

I am sure we will all be compliant eating laboratory made food and cheap imports soon.

Very true but I doubt the imports will be cheap.....we will have trees and houses though.  anyone for acorn and grass curry

[B686]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

I'm sure that I have seen signs up against the Hammond's Farm development.

Yes theres a few about . All sorts are grown on that land . Wheat , barley , potato’s ,onions , lettuce. Probably end up another concrete jungle like Beaulie park. Shame as there’s a cracking 28 acre lake there nice little woods, even land that’s supposed to be of special scientific interest. But that won’t come into it as let’s face it we got to have homes for the invaders coming across the channel.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Have you got a link from where you got this information? 

No, I know a lot of Farmers.

[Mice!]

8 hours ago, countryman said:

We are only a small island with a growing Foreign population, the Government need land to build more houses on, you can not make it so farm land is in there sights.

That's an angle that I'd not thought of 😪

[oowee]

5 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

 

I am sure we will all be compliant eating laboratory made food and cheap imports soon.

It's coming if we are forced into a trade deal with Trump to avoid tariffs.

9 hours ago, countryman said:

We are only a small island with a growing Foreign population, the Government need land to build more houses on, you can not make it so farm land is in there sights.

The demand for new homes is coming largely from new household formations and an ageing population retaining homes. The projected requirement for homes has remained largely unchanged since 2016. 

Rather than bother with taxing farmers to get access to land there are proposed planning changes to better enable compulsory purchase, willing seller or not.