Gavin_d Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Hi guys. I shoot clays after work during the week. The clay ground is around 20 miles from my house and work is 10 miles in the same direction. I have been going home after work to get my gun then gone shooting. I've had people say to me, why don't I just keep gun in car while at work. Anyone do this? What could the implications be? If I did it then I would lock it via a chain into the boot. Never done it before as I'm a newbie and don't want to do anything wrong. I've searched the net and cannot find much info. What are your views. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 You need to at least separate parts of the gun and take something in to work with you so any thief can only steal a part that is unuseable on its own, after all they may take your car and worry about the chain later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 If it`s out of sight, and secured then you`re not doing anything wrong. Even better would be to take a part into work with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Wherever you choose to leave either parts, or the whole gun, remember, it is YOU who will have to answer the questions should the wheel come off (so to speak !) and therefore YOU who could have their Certificate revoked. I can only speak for the local Constabulary, they have been known to ask for a 'voluntary' surrender of Certificate for a specific period of time after guns have been stolen from cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm aware of people that do it regularly. I'd only consider it if it was secure, off road, parking though. Just don't publicise the fact with anyone at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 As above lots depends on the location. I occasionally do it but car is outside the window, covered by cctv secure yard and car is alarmed, even then a component part comes with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Just take part of the gun into work with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 You are obliged to take reasonable precautions for the security of your firearms when not in your cabinet. If you take the fore-end or barrels from your shotgun into work with you and lock the remainder out of sight in your car, you have satisfied the terms of your certificate. If you do this no one can claim you have not taken reasonable precautions. We used to do this all the time when working shifts. I used to remove the bolt from my .22rf, leave the rifle locked out of sight in the car and lock the bolt in my locker in work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) You simply just have to take reasonable precautions to prevent the gun being stolen. Using a cable to secure into a lashing point into the boot and taking the fore end into work with you is fine. Many won't leave a gun in the car for fear of the consequence, but the law is clear in this regard and providing you do your part then there can be no substantive argument made against you. Edited September 16, 2015 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Used to park cars at a posh hotel whilst doing the knowledge, and a regular brought in his jeep cherokee first thing, and, I'm guessing because he knew I was a shooter, said keep an eye on it, it's got my sbs and cartridge bag in there, I'm off for a driven day after work (by train), and don't want to take it into work. Was quite surprised, at both the leaving of a shotgun and ammo in an unattended vehicle, and the telling me about it. May have taken fore-end in to work with him, don't know, but as earlier responses, wouldn't fancy the conversation with feo if it did go walkies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 If the gun is stolen then you get your ticket revoked until you prove in court your actions were reasonable Good luck with that one I don't fancy your chances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 You are obliged to take reasonable precautions for the security of your firearms when not in your cabinet. If you take the fore-end or barrels from your shotgun into work with you and lock the remainder out of sight in your car, you have satisfied the terms of your certificate. If you do this no one can claim you have not taken reasonable precautions. We used to do this all the time when working shifts. I used to remove the bolt from my .22rf, leave the rifle locked out of sight in the car and lock the bolt in my locker in work. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Its no different from going out shooting and taking 2 guns then leaving 1 in the car whilst using the other, I do it regularly and there's nothing illegal about it and you won't be revoked if its stolen at least under Durham you won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 If the gun is stolen then you get your ticket revoked until you prove in court your actions were reasonable Good luck with that one I don't fancy your chances There is secure storage in one of the hotels locally for visiting guns, but others don't have that facility. The guns staying in those hotels remove the fore-ends or barrels and leave the remainder of their guns locked in their vehicles. Much better they do this than leave a complete gun in their hotel rooms or vehicles while they go to the bar or restaurant. It is completely legal and accepted practise to do the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 get a breakdown cabinet and bolt it too the boot floor that way your certificate is safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I would take every precaution you can, split the gun and take a piece with you, hide another bit in the boot and the other somewhere else, fit a trigger lock, run a cable lock through the barrel. This is just piece of mind for you and it does show you have done all you can to prevent a theft. To be honest I have taken 2 guns on a shoot and left one in the car a lot of times and do none of the above. I think it all depends on where you are leaving the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 once i asked this question to my FEO and i was told as most people said above, take barrel or take some other main part after which shotgun be useless.. If I do it, i have a rucksack which is got zipper so the length can be increased and my barrel easily goes fits in it.. for semi, just take out bolt and put the gun in slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 For an auto or pump simply take the magazine cap off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 It is YOUR responsibility, YOU WILL be asked to account for YOUR actions or inactions if the car is broken in to and the weapon stolen! YOUR choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 From here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117636/firearms-security-handbook.pdf PART 7: FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION IN TRANSIT Carriage by Road – Section 1 & 2 Firearms & Ammunition Private Individuals 7.1 When carrying firearms etc in a vehicle, the following steps are considered to accord with the duty to ensure the safe custody of the items. Vehicles Left Unattended 7.2 Whenever possible, the vehicle should not be left unattended for long periods. 7.3 Vehicles containing firearms and left unatt ended for any length of time should ideally have an immobiliser and/or alarm fitted. 7.4 Where possible, they should be parked in a position that would frustrate attempts to enter the vehicle unlawfully. (eg with the boot close to a wall). 7.5 Where possible, they should be parked where they can be overlooked. 7.6 For preference, the firearms should be stored in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. They should be out of sight from passers-by. 7.7 In the case of estates, hatchbacks and similar vehicles, the certificate holder should ensure that: a) where fitted, the lid or cover of the load carrying area should be in place, or the firearms are covered and concealed to prevent their identification; b) if the vehicle is to be left unattended for any length of time, the firearm and ammunition should not be stored together; c) where the boot or load carrying area is the most practical place, ammunition should be secured in an appropriate container ideally, but not necessarily, secured to the vehicle; d) where it is practical, the bolt magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person, or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere. 7.8 Where firearms and ammunition are being carried on a journey which involves their being kept away from their usual secure storage, the certificate holder should make arrangements to ensure that they are, so far as is possible, secure. Considerations when firearms are being taken to venues involving overnight or longer accommodation include:a) obtaining accommodation that already provides secure facilities; b) separating and retaining possession of integral parts of the firearm, eg the fore-end of a shotgun, bolt of a rifle etc;c) utilising portable security devices, ie security cords etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ask your FEO by email, (so you have a WRITTEN answer) follow his guidlines. Then if there is a problem, you technically have his written authoritie that it was ok to do what you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 If your gun or part of your gun is stolen then trying to argue it was stored securely is a bit of a lost cause now it has gone so it then falls onto was what you did reasonable. Being stolen several hundred miles from your home outside a hotel the night before a shoot is a different scenario than outside work which you commute to every day. They will ask why was it at work and if the only answer is you couldn't be bothered driving home to get it then I would fear for your license. Remember if they revoke your certificate they don't need to prove guilt you would have to prove what you did was reasonable and that will no doubt involve legal costs. The definition of what is reasonable that a judge decides might be totally different to the definition given on this forum, my personal view is if you are in commuting distance of your cabinet then it's reasonable to assume you will use it unless you have a very good reason not too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Us shooters really are our own worst enemies. Despite it all being there in black and white in post 20, as supplied by B525, the naysayers insist on making mountains out of molehills. You could ask your FEO but as licensing authorities in general and FEO's in particular regard licensing as one big **** covering exercise, then the answer will probably be 'no', or you could take responsibility for your own actions. I can't speak for the rest of the country but in my small part of it during the shooting season there are dozens and dozens of vehicles with guns in them parked outside pubs. The owners could drive the short distance ( in one case less than a mile ) back to their hotel or main house to drop off their guns beforehand, but they don't; they lock up their guns in their vehicles and go in the pub while they have a drink ( not necessarily alcoholic ) or a meal before driving back to their main accommodation. They are complying with and fulfilling their obligations as required by doing so, and that is all that is expected of them. This constant 'what if...' criteria that firearms owners seem to think they have to live their lives by perplexes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Us shooters really are our own worst enemies. Despite it all being there in black and white in post 20, as supplied by B525, the naysayers insist on making mountains out of molehills. You could ask your FEO but as licensing authorities in general and FEO's in particular regard licensing as one big **** covering exercise, then the answer will probably be 'no', or you could take responsibility for your own actions. I can't speak for the rest of the country but in my small part of it during the shooting season there are dozens and dozens of vehicles with guns in them parked outside pubs. The owners could drive the short distance ( in one case less than a mile ) back to their hotel or main house to drop off their guns beforehand, but they don't; they lock up their guns in their vehicles and go in the pub while they have a drink ( not necessarily alcoholic ) or a meal before driving back to their main accommodation. They are complying with and fulfilling their obligations as required by doing so, and that is all that is expected of them. This constant 'what if...' criteria that firearms owners seem to think they have to live their lives by perplexes me. The simple fact is the post you mention is guidance and not the law. Also it's for in transit not for storage whilst at work. People have had their certificates revoked because their gun has been stolen from a car, I actually know one such person. He sought legal advice and was told to forget it and was lucky the police did not prosecute as well. He was at a local pub and his car got stolen the reason he lost his certificate was the proximity to his cabinet and he should have secured it first. Just because countless people do it doesn't mean they legally can, it's never really an issue until your gun is stolen then believe my friend when he tells you it becomes a big issue. With what you are saying its ok to leave your gun in the car all the time no need to use your cabinet. Wait till your gun gets stolen then try and argue it was secure as reasonably practicable when your cabinet is close by. Edited September 17, 2015 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I suppose if the gun was to get stolen and your cert revoked you could always appeal on the grounds that the PW massive said it was OK to leave it in the car 🚗 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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