dazb1967 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 actually it can happen well i have done it looked at my speedo and thought ooh blast going a bit fast and slowed down Was that just after you jumped the red light Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Was that just after you jumped the red light Colin it wasn't red it was amber lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 We will have to disagree I suppose but as I mentioned before I can not be issued a ticket/fine for what may or may not have happened earlier or later! The copper cannot simply assume that I committed an offence at some point during the day and book me for that. The ticket is for the time of the alleged offence as stated on it. Edd Do let us know when this goes to court so we can watch from the Gallery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I know there are a lot of replies to this thread but I do keep saying that there will be no court appearance as I have accepted that the fine has to be paid. Not sure how after the dog ate it but I will figure that bit lol. My original question was whether the "offence" was still valid whilst parked on private property? My own searches seemed to suggest that it was but I was asking for further info. Not sure why it has got some of the replies that it has. My point is about whether or not there was an offence committed before or after the ticket could be extended to the preceding day/week/month. If the offence did not stand while on private property (as no tax would be) then issuing a ticket on the basis that I must have driven on a road to get there would not be acceptable/allowed/lawful...surely I'm not the only one who thinks that? Also talk of getting away with it on a technicality (private property) then surely the exact spacing of letters is also a "technically"? So if I have done something wrong and have to accept consequences then wrongly issuing a ticket should deserve consequences? If it's worthy of a ticket on the basis that it can't be read by anpr cameras then shouldn't it be a condition that I had to change it and prove that it's changed and not just pay for the privilege? So just to clarify things- having done a little online research I can see that the offence still stands whilst the vehicle is on private property if there is public access to the property as is the case with the service station car park. Therefor I will not be trying to contest the fine. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I know there are a lot of replies to this thread but I do keep saying that there will be no court appearance as I have accepted that the fine has to be paid. Not sure how after the dog ate it but I will figure that bit lol. My original question was whether the "offence" was still valid whilst parked on private property? My own searches seemed to suggest that it was but I was asking for further info. Not sure why it has got some of the replies that it has. My point is about whether or not there was an offence committed before or after the ticket could be extended to the preceding day/week/month. If the offence did not stand while on private property (as no tax would be) then issuing a ticket on the basis that I must have driven on a road to get there would not be acceptable/allowed/lawful...surely I'm not the only one who thinks that? Also talk of getting away with it on a technicality (private property) then surely the exact spacing of letters is also a "technically"? So if I have done something wrong and have to accept consequences then wrongly issuing a ticket should deserve consequences? If it's worthy of a ticket on the basis that it can't be read by anpr cameras then shouldn't it be a condition that I had to change it and prove that it's changed and not just pay for the privilege? So just to clarify things- having done a little online research I can see that the offence still stands whilst the vehicle is on private property if there is public access to the property as is the case with the service station car park. Therefor I will not be trying to contest the fine. Edd Sadly it got some of the replies it did because this is PW and people cannot resist. Perfectly good question from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I got pulled once for an apostrophe which was in fact a smear of grease! Granted I put it there, so fair dos I suppose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wife has a GILxxxx plate and we had the "I" dotted by removing a very small piece near the top. I checked rules/regs and this did not breach regs but had to have a separate set for MOT. Only time I got stopped was by a rather thick copper, during IRA troubles, who pulled us over and couldn't quite get his head around why my wife Gill had this plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Search this site http://pepipoo.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It is illegal to have incorrect spacing on your plate. Now they are using APNR they are quite hot on this as it won't pick up on incorrectly spaced plates. If you are out on the road, and a service station is (as you must have driven there in the first place) means they can get you. The plates you have are "show" plates and are just that, plates used for car shows and should not be on the road. Official resellers of plates must adhere to strict sizing and spacing, these guys you need to show you reg docs to to get a plate. Hope this helps. I don't know about the OP's plate but mine is 'illegally' spaced and is still picked up on ANPR cameras, and i have a parking ticket to prove it MOT failure as well I presume. I can see your not a happy bunny, but it's not as it should be. Chin out and take it. I see plenty like that too, the only logical explanation is that they screw a legal set on come MOT time. Thanks for the reminder gents, got my MOT tomorrow and i'd blatantly forgot about changing the plate over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Search this site http://pepipoo.com/ This was one of the first things I came across when searching the offence code. The first thread I saw was someone asking about a ticket they had received in the same car park as me from the same copper!! Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Not all laws say "on the public highway" You can get done for DIC in a car park, ( lots of people have been done for sleeping it off on in pub car parks) you can get done for dangerous driving in a car park. You have you read the actual wording of the appropriate act. Also a car park is a "public place" and if it has "public vehicular access" thats another can of worms. Its not straight forward. Lots of roads are on private property, industrial estates and retail parks for example, but that doesn't grant anyone exemption, its still public highway Road traffic acts can still apply on unadopted roads, green lanes, service roads behind shops, ferry terminals , airports etc, Its lawyers heaven £££££ Edited February 12, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Vince - I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Not all laws say "on the public highway" You can get done for DIC in a car park, ( lots of people have been done for sleeping it off on in pub car parks) you can get done for dangerous driving in a car park. You have you read the actual wording of the appropriate act. Also a car park is a "public place" and if it has "public vehicular access" thats another can of worms. Its not straight forward. Lots of roads are on private property, industrial estates and retail parks for example, but that doesn't grant anyone exemption, its still public highway Road traffic acts can still apply on unadopted roads, green lanes, service roads behind shops, ferry terminals , airports etc, Its lawyers heaven £££££ Yep. Did a little research and that was all that was needed. Part of the "research" was to ask on here if anyone had experience but as often happens it went off on a tangent. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 andrewluke - exactly. Twistedsanity - the OP could well follow your advice. Whilst he could argue the toss about where he was at the time of the offence - if it wasn't at the station, it was when he drove there or drove home. At the moment, he is facing a relatively minor penalty, but he could swiftly upgrade that to perverting the course of justice. That is just lunacy - making a bad situation infinitely worse. The offence in question is only committed on a public highway , it's the highways act and the vehicle was not on the highway therefore no offence was committed, I have show plates on one of my cars would you suggest I pay a penalty to the police "on the offchance I decide to take it for a spin"? It's ludicrous to suggest paying a penalty when there is no offence and zero evidence that an offence has been comitted, my car does 180 mph should I pay for a speeding ticket in advance because I am capable of breaking the speed limit? I don't disagree for a moment that if there was an offence comitted the penalty should be paid (that's the law) but this was not an offence as the vehicle was on private land, it is morally and ethically wrong to try and enforce a penalty where no law was seen to be broken, the law and police are supposed to be there to protect you and I from wrongdoing not to make money or facilitate the ego of an overkeen Constable , I would ask the court what the exact offence was then ask for proof that offence had been comitted. I believe the law in this country is still worked on the basis that we are all innocent until proven guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I once followed a vehicle with a plate that read 'STOLEN if moving'. It had been on a display at a caravan show the previous day and they had forgotten to take it off. IT WORKED!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 The offence in question is only committed on a public highway , it's the highways act and the vehicle was not on the highway therefore no offence was committed, I have show plates on one of my cars would you suggest I pay a penalty to the police "on the offchance I decide to take it for a spin"? It's ludicrous to suggest paying a penalty when there is no offence and zero evidence that an offence has been comitted, my car does 180 mph should I pay for a speeding ticket in advance because I am capable of breaking the speed limit? I don't disagree for a moment that if there was an offence comitted the penalty should be paid (that's the law) but this was not an offence as the vehicle was on private land, it is morally and ethically wrong to try and enforce a penalty where no law was seen to be broken, the law and police are supposed to be there to protect you and I from wrongdoing not to make money or facilitate the ego of an overkeen Constable , I would ask the court what the exact offence was then ask for proof that offence had been comitted. I believe the law in this country is still worked on the basis that we are all innocent until proven guilty This is exactly what I was getting at throughout my posts. I cannot be booked for something which is assumed to have happened, there must be evidence. BUT from what I can find the offence still stands as the car park, even though privately owned still forms part of the highway as there is public access. Just to be completely sure I will call a solicitor on Monday but to be honest it's only £100 and if there is any chance that there could be further complications I will pay it. I will definitely update this thread though. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazbev Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Don't pay the fine and ask them to give you the dimensions of the plate on the car, they have to measure everything and note it down just in case they have to prosecute, I'm guessing they didn't and CPS won't peruse it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Twistedsanity - you need to brush up on the law, as to what constitutes the "highway". I would contend that the vehicle was on the highway and the law backs this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 All this public highway stuff is a red herring I would beg to suggest, The law probably just says something along the lines of " Vehicle number plates must be comply with BS 1234 (or whatever)" and thats it. No ifs or buts about where it is used or where the vehicle is parked. Probably, (because I haven't actually checked) if its a number plate that doesn't comply then it would make no difference where it was, it would still be a non compliant plate and an offence would have been committed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 All this public highway stuff is a red herring I would beg to suggest, The law probably just says something along the lines of " Vehicle number plates must be comply with BS 1234 (or whatever)" and thats it. No ifs or buts about where it is used or where the vehicle is parked. Probably, (because I haven't actually checked) if its a number plate that doesn't comply then it would make no difference where it was, it would still be a non compliant plate and an offence would have been committed Unfortunately for me I believe that you are correct, but I will ask a solicitor to be 100% sure . It's a bit of a strange one though as most other offences (not MOT, no tax, defective tyres etc) are worded along the lines of "keeping/using a vehicle on a public highway...." Will update with what solicitor says today. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris B123 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) All this public highway stuff is a red herring I would beg to suggest, The law probably just says something along the lines of " Vehicle number plates must be comply with BS 1234 (or whatever)" and thats it. No ifs or buts about where it is used or where the vehicle is parked. Probably, (because I haven't actually checked) if its a number plate that doesn't comply then it would make no difference where it was, it would still be a non compliant plate and an offence would have been committed That can't be true, as you can buy show plates, like the ones garages use, they change the plate to the make of the car, or the name of the garage, obviously illegal to use on the road but going by the post above they couldn't even have them on their forecourt. Edited February 15, 2016 by Chris B123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Solicitor says pay the fine. They describe it as a "fact offence" and describe it as similar to a recent case where someone was over the prescribed alcohol limit whilst in a golf club car park. He argued that it was private property and that the club was only open to members but there was no gate on the car park and therefore there is public access. Same as the service station car park that I was in. Not sure how they get away with car sales with different plates on but in the letter of the law if the public have access to the forecourt they are illegal and they could be fined. But I reckon most coppers would realise that some laws do not need to be enforced in every situation. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 So have you changed the plates for a legal set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Here's an example of why you should always question the legality of tickets as not blindly obey the law, there is a camera van that travels around near where I live and is painted in police livery with the wording "working in partnership with Herts police" all over it, it makes an appearance once in a while and merrily dishes out fines and tickets to all and sundry who blindly obey and pay up without question, these tickets are not lawful and can not be enforced but if you question them they won't tell you that, they will insist that they are lawful speeding tickets and failure to pay will see you in front of a magistrates court where you "could receive a larger fine or even points on your licence" it's all lies and complete gonads. Aside from any fixed cameras which have their own legislation and are enforceable mobile cameras MUST have a police officer present to witness the offence or they cannot be enforced in a court of law, think about this for a second and the answer is simple, if a civilian can dish out speeding tickets without any legislation behind them or a police officer present we could all do it , just buy a van and a speed camera and you have a licence to print money, last year alone I think Herts made £5,000,000 in speeding fines, while a lot of them were lawful from fixed cameras, police officers with speed traps or in cars following speeders a substantial amount were from this mobile van where people were fooled into admitting an offence that was not legally enforceable through their own ignorance of the law, if they had asked for the badge number of the police officer who witnessed the offence as I did they would have recieved the answer "we don't give out personal details due to the data protection act" just as I did, wen I replied that I was asking for his badge number as a serving officer and not his address and underwear preference the correspondence ceased and the fine was never enforced, I could list many more examples of things like this where people pay through ignorance or fear and do not have to like the case the op put here where he began saying he knew it was on private property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 That can't be true, as you can buy show plates, like the ones garages use, they change the plate to the make of the car, or the name of the garage, obviously illegal to use on the road but going by the post above they couldn't even have them on their forecourt. Doesn't apply in this case. When we made number plates it was clearly stated that it's an offence to make plates that could be read as a number plate. Obviously a dealer plate with something like "JUST CARS" probably couldn't be construed as a number plate, and they're usually locked in a showroom or forecourt. To make a plate that could be a number plate, such as " ITO MMY" and space it as "I TOMMY" would be a criminal offence apparently . This is to actually make the plate, makes no difference where it's going to be used, whether private land or not, to make it is against the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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