Gordon R Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 grrclark - I normally refrain from disagreeing with you, as I have found you to be knowledgeable and usually right. My sketchy memory is that it was far more than 7%. In the overall scheme of things - it matters little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 I very much hope we don't have to revisit the discussion with an IndyRef2 Gordon, that is the real issue. You could well be right, i honestly cannot remember and it does matter little. It was all so divisive and i fear that for generations there will be lingering bitterness and division 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Hypothetically speaking! In the event that the SNP were to win the referendum and disengage from the UK would it be possible for either, either, or, The Orkneys, The Shetland Islands and The Hebrides Islands to say it's not for them. That they wish to remain aligned to what remains of the UK. Or, declare UDI. And, in that event, where would the oil field boundaries lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Bobba - valid points to which I am sure Sturgeon hasn't got any answer, other than hinting at yet another referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Bobba, there was a lot of that type of discussion during the last referendum. The why's and wherefors of the legality of the islanders declaring UDI I don't know, but I guess under the rules of self determination it is possible. As with the Scottish/English waters discussion there would need to be agreement on where the boundary would lie between the Scottish mainland and the islands. Undoubtably many oil & gas fields would be caught up in that discussion. There is already a different local ruling in Shetland where a proportion of oil revenues are paid and retained locally as an exchange for allowing the construction of Sullom Voe. Again sketchy memory, but i think as a result of that agreement then per capita that Shetland has the highest revenues from O&G within the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 I wonder whether Sturgeon ever considers the effect or her constant threats on people who are keen to remain part of the UK? Would she take pleasure in their uncertainty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 I wonder whether Sturgeon ever considers the effect or her constant threats on people who are keen to remain part of the UK? Would she take pleasure in their uncertainty? I don't think she cares, so long as she can get her way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Westminster politics has changed beyond recognition since the first referendum and the SNP should expect a much rougher ride second time around. Despite what the SNP say, Cameron's chillax approach meant most of the heat and smoke was generated by the cyberNats. If Brexit demonstrates anything, it's that Westminster will be much more aggressive - particularly about the SNP's poor domestic track record. If there is a vote to leave the Union, I imagine the hard Brexit approach taken with the EU will look like a love-in compared to the terms Scotland will receive. "Be careful what you wish" for springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 I saw an idea put forward (maybe on Question Time?) that she is pushing for a referendum next year because after that she stands a very good chance of losing seats and being no longer in a position to push a referendum through the Scottish Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Isn't all of this a bit unnecessary. I always work on the principle that you don't draw the weapon unless you are going to really use it. So why does she keep on about a second referendum. As far as I know they have to be given permission to hold it which I'm sure TM would say that there hasn't been a long enough period since the last referendum and as such would undermine the democratic vote and seeing as several countries in the EU have said that she ain't on the list, so she ain't coming in and there is no guarantee that they would win a result anyway. All of the countries in the UK have a fair amount of self determination so what is there to gain? How would any country fair if they were classed as a separate country and had to pay border duties ect, ect. The EU is going to be on the back foot financially and won't want to know a small country that holds its hand out from before day one. Still we are dealing with politicians here and the voting public are brainless sheep that will shout at the moon if left to their own devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Isn't all of this a bit unnecessary. I always work on the principle that you don't draw the weapon unless you are going to really use it. So why does she keep on about a second referendum. As far as I know they have to be given permission to hold it which I'm sure TM would say that there hasn't been a long enough period since the last referendum and as such would undermine the democratic vote and seeing as several countries in the EU have said that she ain't on the list, so she ain't coming in and there is no guarantee that they would win a result anyway. All of the countries in the UK have a fair amount of self determination so what is there to gain? How would any country fair if they were classed as a separate country and had to pay border duties ect, ect. The EU is going to be on the back foot financially and won't want to know a small country that holds its hand out from before day one. Still we are dealing with politicians here and the voting public are brainless sheep that will shout at the moon if left to their own devices. It's her raison d'être. Without it she has very little going for her. It's also her one significant weapon against Westminster. Although it's significance has dropped considerably since a referendum was held and she lost it. She has pretty much admitted that even if Westminster gives her any concessions over her Brexit ideas that it won't rule out her calling for another referendum in the future. Effectively she's shown her cards but is carrying on with the bluff and I don't think May is going to roll over with either concessions or granting another legally binding referendum. Of course wee Nicki can still hold one but Parliament won't be obliged to respect the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 It should be pointed out, because it is not often mentioned, that the SNP want a massive fishery exclusion zone in the North Sea and up the Atlantic coast which will further harm the British fishing industry (what little remains ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Sturgeon - despite her fishy name, knows little of maritime law. When her limited brain cells are otherwise occupied, trying to hint at a another referendum, she falls back on her pet phrase "Strong for Scotland". Unbelievably, some listen to her. Edited March 11, 2017 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 I don't think she cares, so long as she can get her way. I really enjoy reading your posts grrclark. You are easily the most well written person on PW. One sentence. Congratulations ! Please carry on slagging that evil woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 There was a poll out the other day that had a 50/50 split for yes/n voters (not that polls can be trusted nowadays anyway) If May/westminster plays hard ball over it which i think they will it will play right into the Snp's hand as they can then grandstand calling westminster/may bullies etc and warning us of decades of english tory rule to come. There was also a story in the paper from the political editor (who is fairly snp baised) at the tory conference where some english back bencher was all for stripping a lot of the devolved powers an plenty of his mates agreed with him. Cameron played a blinder at the last referndum, he realised how many votes he'd lose by going up there (ur sterotypical tory boy, eton educated and posh accent) if he came up shouting the odds he would of been the best advert for a yes vote ever. But he was clever enough not to rise to the bait. He even got the english mp's votes bill passed at westminster so labour could no longer relie on the big numbers of scottish MP's to railroad english only bills throu (not that theres any scottish labour mp's left now, and thats purely because they shared the same podium as english tory's) If May/westminster do start betting tougher it might be enough to swing the vote, only take a 5% swing and considering the policies on currency,EU and oil where complete fiction its amazing they got so many votes. There was also talk of wextminster keeping control of the fishing waters and agri payments even thou they should be devolved matters While it is unfortunate all this talk of a 2nd referndum so close to the last but the fundemental thing was the NO vote promised the only way to stay in europe was to vote no, Snp always said once in a generation type vote or after significant constitutional change, i'd call brexit a fairly signicicant change so can see there point in calling or at least talking about it PS There would be absolutely no chance of folk from the orkney shetlands wanting to stay part of the UK/England, but they would be quite likely to go independant themselves most/many of the islanders up there have far great allegencies or ties/bonds to likes of Faores or Iceland or even Norway than they do to mainland scotland. The norse roots are still fairly strong up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 This really hacks me off. I think most of the water companies are owned by French companies? Ironic really What's done is done and sadly most don't seem to give a fig? We are now at the financial mercy of half of Europe and beyond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldgun Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Perhaps Sturgeon could form an alliance with Corbyn, as they are both of the same ilk - delusional moaners. Just a thought Gordon R Was playing golf the other day we were on the green and one of the lads said you've got a Nicola Sturgen i said whats that he said a nasty little four footer!!! ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Oooooooooooooooooooooooo. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Firstly it was billed as a "once in a generation" referendum not a yearly event! Secondly if Scotland hold another referendum....whichever way it goes half the population of Scotland will disagree with the result and will be disappointed! And thirdly precisely when, according to the SNP, did the majority democratic will of the Scottish people expire and cease to be recognised? It is my belief that if the SNP want Scotland to leave the Union, at least 75% of the eligible population of Scotland should be required to vote for leave.....any less and the status quo stands! Edited March 12, 2017 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pernod Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 75% Panoma1?? Should that have been applied to the Brexit vote too... Pernod... Edited March 12, 2017 by pernod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Or is the referendum a way to drawing attention away from how badly they're actually running Scotland..? Most likely! Very similar in many ways to the Argentinian leader. She always brought up talk of the Falklands when her government were slipping. Brings out the national pride, and unity. But momentarily blinds the public to ALL other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 75% Panoma1?? Should that have been applied to the Brexit vote too... Pernod... Not quite the same Pernod! The EU Referendum was not driven by those that wanted to leave the EU, so a simple majority rightly carried the day.....another Scottish independence referendum would be again driven by the SNP whose sole agenda seems to be for Scotland to leave the Union! So Westminster (on behalf of the rest of the union) should require proof that a significant number (75%?) of the Scottish electorate agree with the nationalists and wish to leave, before any leave vote is recognised........failure to reach the required percentage in favour of leaving, would result in the status quo being maintained! I think the SNP should hold a referendum asking the people of Scotland if they want another Scottish independence referendum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Nicola Sturgeon is to the truth as Roger Whitacker was to Geography! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I really enjoy reading your posts grrclark. You are easily the most well written person on PW. One sentence. Congratulations ! Please carry on slagging that evil woman. Hah a one sentence post by me deserves congratulations, waffly **** that i am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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