Side by Side Club

[DUNKS]

Just keep it as a black powder gun. As original.

[JohnfromUK]

36 minutes ago, Magnum 3 said:

No need for apologies! Thanks for the information regarding the gun. I'm not sure what to do with it, a strip, clean and service for starters but I don't want to "do it up" too much as it might spoil it. What do you think?

Maybe take a chance and proof it for nitro so I can load up some Bismuth cartridges and use it without causing a problem to low flying aircraft with the smoke.

It has been well used as you can tell by the engraving but it feels tight and strong still.

In it's day it must have been a bit special compared to some of the hammer guns I've got and I do enjoy firing it.

It is a nice gun.  I would take careful advice before submitting for nitro - as I have heard that the proof houses are very tough these days and it would be a shame to damage it.  Some actions were a bit less robust than others (even when new) and that does have quite a lot 'cut away' from ther action bar .........

The other thing is that with the value of old guns these days, it is very easy to spend far morte trhan a gun is worth.  That may be fine if you are doing it for something you want to keep and cherish, but it is something of which to be aware.

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, Magnum 3 said:

No need for apologies! Thanks for the information regarding the gun. I'm not sure what to do with it, a strip, clean and service for starters but I don't want to "do it up" too much as it might spoil it. What do you think?

Maybe take a chance and proof it for nitro so I can load up some Bismuth cartridges and use it without causing a problem to low flying aircraft with the smoke.

It has been well used as you can tell by the engraving but it feels tight and strong still.

In it's day it must have been a bit special compared to some of the hammer guns I've got and I do enjoy firing it.

If you're after some advice: Is that Taunton the one in the English county of Somerset and near a place called Heathfield where there's a farm called 'Manor'? 

Edited May 25, 2021 by wymberley

[matone]

Proof house would likely wreck it ,they seem to have developed a habit of it now!

[simcgunner]

Lovely shotgun. Not very common and if still in shootable .A strip and clean bit of a brush up and keep it black powder proof.is what I would do rather than risk ruining it. Congratulations.

[Magnum 3]

Thank you all for the advice. It seems it will stay as black power then, as thats the general census of opinion. I'm more interested about using it rather than the value so I will look after it and not go for reproof.

I would love to get the barrels back to their original colour. It is time to do some research to see what it was like when it was new.

 

[Magnum 3]

6 hours ago, wymberley said:

If you're after some advice: Is that Taunton the one in the English county of Somerset and near a place called Heathfield where there's a farm called 'Manor'? 

Yes that’s the place but there’s only a few apple trees there I thought!

[wymberley]

7 minutes ago, Magnum 3 said:

Yes that’s the place but there’s only a few apple trees there I thought!

If you turn off the B3227 for Heathfield (and Halse) and carry on up the hill - this can look like a dead end as it goes sharp left at the top but this is hidden by the hedge - and turn off right at that point, you'll have just pulled into the UK Gun Repairs car park. 

[Old Boggy]

On 24/04/2018 at 16:58, JJsDad said:

Going back to `oldpigeonpoppers` original post about side x sides and dealers who are debating scrapping unwanted stock, I would suggest this is a throw away comment rather than a true fact across the board. The auction houses have always been a lucrative and quick way of getting rid of slow moving or `dodgy` stock. While the marked may seem to have crashed on the cheaper end non-ejectors there is still (in my view) a very healthy market for the better quality stuff. You only have to look at the asking prices at the likes of Jason Abbott (Gunmakers) or Vintage Guns near Ludlow (Dig Hadoak) to see some people are still prepared to pay good money.

It also depends on the dealer. Within 10 miles of me I have two well stocked shops. One aims his offerings directly at the clay shooter, selling clays and cartridges by the slab or the pallet load and his are racks stuffed with Beretta`s, Brownings & auto`s. The last time I went in to replen on cartridges he only had 1 lonely side x side on the rack. Offer him a SBS in P/X and he would probably reduce you to tears.  The other is aimed at a mix of wildfowling / game shooting & clays. He has always got a good selection of SBS game guns rangeing from the cheap and cheerful non-ejector starter gun, right through to a gold inlaid Wilkes of London that I have drooled over.

Also, beware of the chancers who frequent this forum. A few months ago (shame on me) I asked questions about a Miroku Mk 60 Gd 5 20 bore that I was considering buying. I had rung a Wiltshire dealer about taking a 20 bore AYA best quality boxlock in P/X which he agreed to do. Not wanting a wasted long trip I asked him to give me an approx P/X price against the AYA. Which he agreed to do, subject to some decent photo`s. After sending the photo`s we spoke again and he suggested a P/X for the AYA of circa £1300, but covered himself by stipulating that this was subject to examining the gun. I got some good feedback from the forum about the Miroku but had 2 enquiries about how much I wanted for the AYA that I had mentioned I was P/Xing.

On request I sent photo`s to these 2 who shall remain nameless, but indicated I had been offered north of a £1000 so dont bother wasting my time with an offer.  One promptly vanished, the other told me there was no market for such a gun at that price, but he would kindly let me have £600 !!!!!!  

I duly drove down to Salisbury and having selected the better (by wood) of four Miroku`s; he brought a very broad smile to my face and a rapid handshake when he said he would allow £1400 on my AYA. A week later it was on his website, and still is at: £2850 !!!!    The lesson here is, dont believe everything you are told.

 

 

To JJsDad,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I think that your 20 bore best quality AYA is still on that Salisbury gunshop`s books after all these years !! It does make you wonder how they manage to keep so much money tied up in stock for so long. I would have thought that they would do better selling for a smaller profit and so turn more stock round. 

Perhaps Enfieldspares or Gunman on here can explain the logic.

It`s obvious that I have far too much time on my hands, going trawling through old threads. I really must get a life 

OB

Edited May 26, 2021 by Old Boggy

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Old Boggy said:

To JJsDad,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I think that your 20 bore best quality AYA is still on that Salisbury gunshop`s books after all these years !! It does make you wonder how they manage to keep so much money tied up in stock for so long. I would have thought that they would do better selling for a smaller profit and so turn more stock round. 

Perhaps Enfieldspares or Gunman on here can explain the logic.

It`s obvious that I have far too much time on my hands, going trawling through old threads. I really must get a life 

OB

It's dropped a little.

Could it just be that they know their business after all they've been at it over 60 years. Someone has just said that once you move off standard, prices crash (stock length thread?). I was pleased that I received what I did when my 'AyA 25' was sold. It was sold as a best quality boxlock but was in fact a very rare 'Churchill'. As such the quality was on par with the 20 bore in question but which is valued at roughly twice the amount. Do I mind? No. As from that very same shop in question I bought what I really wanted (which in all probability is in better condition than the W&Ss currently advertised at twice the price) for what I got for my half price AyA. It amazes me that a couple of bits of tube 3" long can be worth high on £k1-2.

If you buy carefully and sell wisely good condition quality items that people want, then you're in with a chance to succeed.

[JJsDad]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I think that your 20 bore best quality AYA is still on that Salisbury gunshop`s books after all these years !!

I have just had a look at Greenfields website and while they have a 20 bore AYA best quality boxlock for sale, I dont believe its the same gun that I chopped in with them. As they gave me an allowance of £50 more than I paid for it, I was relatively happy, however, I did raise an eyebrow when it appeared on their website at £1k more than the P/X allowance.

I did have some photo`s of the stock after it had been adjusted by fitting an orange silvers recoil pad, but it looks like I deleted them after parting with the gun. The gun currently up for sale is fitted with a different pad and what little figure there is, appears different.

 

[DUNKS]

On 25/05/2021 at 11:20, JohnfromUK said:

It is a nice gun.  I would take careful advice before submitting for nitro - as I have heard that the proof houses are very tough these days and it would be a shame to damage it.  Some actions were a bit less robust than others (even when new) and that does have quite a lot 'cut away' from ther action bar .........

The other thing is that with the value of old guns these days, it is very easy to spend far morte trhan a gun is worth.  That may be fine if you are doing it for something you want to keep and cherish, but it is something of which to be aware.

Hi are you saying the proof houses are using a higher proofing charge these days? I thought the "rules" on how much they use were fixed!

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Hi are you saying the proof houses are using a higher proofing charge these days? I thought the "rules" on how much they use were fixed!

I think they are much more fussy about chamber dimensions etc.  I don't know if they use any different charges, but I have heard on several occasions of guns that were 'expected to pass' failing.  I did read that there was a new set of dimensional rules based on a European wide proof standardisation which encompass the metric limits. 

The anecdotal stuff I heard also suggested that on older guns, proffed in days gone by - provided proof was passed, some discretionary tolerance was allowed on dimensional matters based on older systems of measurement (like plug gauges).  Nowadays - it MUST confoirm to the current gauges. 

I'm afraid I don't have anyb real evidence, but I have heard from more than one source that interpretatio of the rules as they now are was very strict, - more so that it may have been in the past - where safety was paramount and never compromised, but history and orignal practices were also taken into consideration where appropriate and not a safety risk.

[Gunman]

Problem we found that the Proof houses in CIP were governed by a central body made up of scientists not Gun Traders , . As a result all the rules were brought in that applied to new guns with out any thought of older guns and reproofs . 

The fact that there was no provision for a 2" chambered gun or the old 3" standard to be reproofed is a good example , as well as taking out the clause of " the Discretion of the Proof Master ".

A friend bought  a set of rifle chambering cutters from a reputable source in the US for 308 Win , an American round . The gun he summitted failed view,  as he was told that the chamber sizes did not conform to CIP dimensions .

Personally I'm glad to be out of it .

 

 

[matone]

Yes ,the old pragmatism has gone from those establishments sadly......

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Gunman said:

" the Discretion of the Proof Master "

....... which is exactly the phrase I should have used above rather than my ramble.

[DUNKS]

Thank you gents I was thinking only of the proofing charges. Obviously a lot more to it than that. I will stick to low power black powder cartridges in my old guns.

[Old Boggy]

20 hours ago, JJsDad said:

I have just had a look at Greenfields website and while they have a 20 bore AYA best quality boxlock for sale, I dont believe its the same gun that I chopped in with them. As they gave me an allowance of £50 more than I paid for it, I was relatively happy, however, I did raise an eyebrow when it appeared on their website at £1k more than the P/X allowance.

I did have some photo`s of the stock after it had been adjusted by fitting an orange silvers recoil pad, but it looks like I deleted them after parting with the gun. The gun currently up for sale is fitted with a different pad and what little figure there is, appears different.

 

I have traded a couple of guns with Greenfields in Salisbury in the past and have always found them really helpful and good to deal with and they have always offered very fair PX prices. Realising that they have to make a profit, I`m just surprised sometimes that some guns (albeit, not yours apparently) seem to stay on their books for sometime, but as has been said, they`ve been in the game some time so know what they`re doing.

OB

[ninjaferret]

I'm undecided if i should keep my AYA No2 or sell it as i've ony used it once for a couple of hours in a year of owning it....

[London Best]

9 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

I'm undecided if i should keep my AYA No2 or sell it as i've ony used it once for a couple of hours in a year of owning it....

Bad time to sell. 
I would wait until this fad for stupidly long barrelled OU’s has passed and SxS prices rise again. It may take a while.

[Lloyd90]

52 minutes ago, London Best said:

Bad time to sell. 
I would wait until this fad for stupidly long barrelled OU’s has passed and SxS prices rise again. It may take a while.

Probably never …

[Rob85]

10 hours ago, London Best said:

Bad time to sell. 
I would wait until this fad for stupidly long barrelled OU’s has passed and SxS prices rise again. It may take a while.

I cant imagine shooting any shotgun with 4 or 5 inches more barrel on it that I'm already used to. I dont even know anyone personally that owns a double barrel with barrels longer than 30inches. 

[Old farrier]

4 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I cant imagine shooting any shotgun with 4 or 5 inches more barrel on it that I'm already used to. I dont even know anyone personally that owns a double barrel with barrels longer than 30inches. 

I’ve got some 😂

although 1 is a 10 bore 

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I cant imagine shooting any shotgun with 4 or 5 inches more barrel on it that I'm already used to. I dont even know anyone personally that owns a double barrel with barrels longer than 30inches. 

I have shot a friends 34" Perazzi (with which he shoots very well).  For me - it was very hard work (and it was also quite a bit too long in the stock for me ......... and felt like it weighted about 12 lbs.

[London Best]

10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

and felt like it weighted about 12 lbs.

It very likely did!