Mightymariner Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I know this topic has cropped up before but I would be interested to get PW's take on this. A friend sent me a copy of an email sent recently by someone who sells let days on various estates. The gist of the email is that some guns have not been tipping as generously as expected and this has got back to the agent, who adds that some keepers rely on tips to bolster their income. While he says he would not presume to tell guns what the tip should be, he adds that he would expect a minimum of £40 on a 100 bird day and possibly more if the keeper and his team had really excelled. There is more to the letter but I wonder what members think? I don't do a lot of game shooting but when I have we have always tipped on the basis of how the day has gone, how hard the team have worked to get us shooting, how welcome we have been made, regardless of the numbers. So, for example, if we struggled to make the expected bag because the birds weren't there, we still tipped generously if it was obvious the keeper and his team had done everything they could to find some sport. The numbers are a factor but not always, in my opinion, the deciding factor on tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 on a 100 bird day there is no way i would tip £40 quid.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Yes, I had the same e mail and shoot regularly with that agent and have no qualms about booking days with him, we have had some super days this year so far always exceeding the expected bag with no overage. NOW with regard to tips, in my view they are a personal thing. If keepers are now becoming to rely on them to top up their wges then they are not getting paid enough and this should be noted in the price of the day and they should consequently get a proper wage. A tip in my view is not to bolster your wage, it is a personal thank you and appreciation that you believe the person has gone beyond what you would expect of them to provide you with a pleasant experience be it a meal or a days shooting and should reflect that. In some circumstances, yes I might give £40 but it would have to be a very special day and not based on birds shot. I might give that for a small 80 bird day if I had seen a keeper going out of his way to make our day special. 100-130 bird day from my opinion maximum is £30. I agree with ditch and have e mailed back to this effect and also if it is keepers whinging then next time my tip might be far less. Having said that, I was in a syndicate down in Northampton area. Very well run and a great crowd. The keppering was done by part time keepers who received a very small upfront payment which basically probably covered their fuel bills. We had a tin on the table at the days end and we put tips in there each day and at the end of the year the total amount was split evenly between the keepers. Great idea. The shoot captain came up and said on one occasion which happened to be the very best day they had ever had..I think 160 plus pheasants ... there was only £80 in the tin and I know that £30 of that was mine and we shot 11 guns !!! SO YES, there are stingy unappreciative specimens out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Well why even tip your buying a day agreed number of birds it’s a commercial entity there doing there job keepers paid beaters paid selling surplus birds through a agent to create more revenue and expecting £400 on top Tin hat on all the best of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I have to agree, tipping should indeed be a personal thing when you feel the keeper and the Beaters have "gone the extra mile". Unfortunately it should not been forced upon you by an agent who is using it to supplement the Keepers meagre wages. The other point to consider is whether any of the tip goes to the Beaters, it certainly hasn't on all the shoots I have beat on so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Well why even tip your buying a day agreed number of birds it’s a commercial entity there doing there job keepers paid beaters paid selling surplus birds through a agent to create more revenue and expecting £400 on top Tin hat on all the best of Fully agree and that is my point. If I tip a waitress after a meal it is based on her service on table, if the meal gets thrown at us, zilch. If there is an attempt to make our meal more pleasant then a good tip but ONLY if that tip is personal to that waiter/waitress. I never tick the 10% box and pay for just the meal and would do this for a days shooting but on most shoots I go on the keeper normally exceeds expectations which I appreciate accordingly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: The other point to consider is whether any of the tip goes to the Beaters, it certainly hasn't on all the shoots I have beat on so far. I have beat on a great number of shoots and have yet to see a keeper share his tips with his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SxS Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Surely much depends on the shoot? If it’s a boundary/walked up day then clearly the quality of the sport can be significantly affected by the endeavours of a small number of people on the day. Bigger commercial shoots get a bit harder as there *should* be the birds there (so a bag-related tip doesn’t seem unreasonable, provided birds have been shown!) but there is the argument that you’ve paid for the day already... but let’s not forget that dome driven days seem to run to very strong money making some of them the preserve of the very wealthy. Watching videos on YouTube I had a look at what some of the big ones charge and nearly fell off my chair. Personally, I wouldn’t dream of leaving a shoot without having a chat with the keeper. Genuine interest in their work, compliments about the quality of the birds and drives, always appreciated. Do I tip? Yes, I regard it as part of the cost of a day, but not one I object to. If I was in the shooting then maybe tip a bit heavier, but I wouldn’t tip less than normal for not having the hottest peg. Fortunately I’ve yet to encounter a paid day where no birds have been shown, as that would probably make me think differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 £20 a hundred or part of hundred seems to be the done thing. Three of us took a walked up day last season for a 75 head bag , we were all happy to give a £30 tip for an exceptional day. Working occasionally as an assistant ghillie on Tweed I appreciate the tips given at the end of day, so do not grudge the keepers gratuity on a god day out. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimmie Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I’ve only tipped £20 on driven days, that’s the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Blackpowder said: £20 a hundred or part of hundred seems to be the done thing. Three of us took a walked up day last season for a 75 head bag , we were all happy to give a £30 tip for an exceptional day. Working occasionally as an assistant ghillie on Tweed I appreciate the tips given at the end of day, so do not grudge the keepers gratuity on a god day out. Blackpowder Same here £20/100 or part thereof. As far as tipping - Why do we tip waiting staff, barbers, cabbies etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 To begrudge giving a £40 tip, which is after all only the cost of 1 bird, seems a little churlish to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, CharlieT said: To begrudge giving a £40 tip, which is after all only the cost of 1 bird, seems a little churlish to me. 8 birds on the day and if you’re inside the shot count and haven’t achieved the bag or your team has just been hit £320 for overages dosent seem churlish to me you may guess from this that I’ve had my leg lifted a few times so nowadays I tip what I think is appropriate not what a agent says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everycal Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Went on a shoot recently that said anyone looking for guidance could go for around £2 per bird shot to your own gun if you have had a good day. Terrible shoot but quite good tipping advice I though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGain Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I must admit that "guidance" such as that would wind me up and bring out my contrarian nature! In my view, a tip is just that ie it's based purely on my enjoyment of the day/the effort that the shoot has put in and not a strict mathematical function of the purchase price/bag. Whilst the whole tip thing does, to a relative game newby like me, seem a bit arcane and tied up with lore it's useful to have a ready-reckoner for an appropriate level of tip IF you you're happy with your day and the service receievd. Bottom line, I was happy to tip £40 last Saturday for a 130 bird day where we slightly exceeded the bag (no overages), had been well looked after, the shoot was friendly and inclusive, worked hard for us and the birds well presented, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I'd also prefer not to be thought of as a tight-wad for the sake of a tenner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I usually tip between £30 and £50 according to what I feel comfortable with on the day!.......with eight guns, that should add up to between £240 and £400 .....with ten guns that should be between £300 and £500 probably tax free! assuming all guns chip in? ............that seems pretty a good thank you to me!....I won't be told what to tip!...........I will continue to tip what I think is appropriate, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightymariner Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 I think that is the point, you tip what you feel is correct based on the day. A friend told me has had days where he hasn't tipped and told the keeper why he didn't. Seems like an honest approach to me. If I had paid for a day I would certainly take offence to being told what to tip. Unfortunately, the author of the email comes across as rather 'headmasterly' in his tone, which won't win him any favours with his clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Personal I tip a minimum of £40 and then work on £20 per 100 or part there of after the first 150. If I think the keeper done well I up it if I think it’s a poor show I reduce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: Personal I tip a minimum of £40 and then work on £20 per 100 or part there of after the first 150. If I think the keeper done well I up it if I think it’s a poor show I reduce it. You still tip if you think "it's a poor show"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 16/10/2018 at 16:49, Old farrier said: 8 birds on the day and if you’re inside the shot count and haven’t achieved the bag or your team has just been hit £320 for overages dosent seem churlish to me you may guess from this that I’ve had my leg lifted a few times so nowadays I tip what I think is appropriate not what a agent says 100% and for certain if I get TOLD what the tip should be then I will not give a tip at all. What I object to is the asumption that the tips are part of the keepers wages. I have spoken with two keepers since this subject arose and they both said they would be happy with £10 per 50 birds plus anything the gun personally thought reflected the days sport had been for him and that seems to be the average response on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: You still tip if you think "it's a poor show"? Yes but depending on how poorer a show depends how poorer tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 What grinds my gears is when the team decides what we are all tipping, happened twice this season where been out of the shooting but it’s decided I should tip the same as those who haven’t been... Ill tip what I like thanks and if the agent is really offended he can cut his egregious fee and make up wages and I wouldn’t use them again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 On 14/10/2018 at 14:27, toontastic said: I have beat on a great number of shoots and have yet to see a keeper share his tips with his team. I’ve seen a few keepers say they do all the hard work just for the head keeper to turn up on shoot day, kiss the **** of the guns and walk away with all the tips. They said they won’t see him again until the next shoot day. The big big issue with tipping in any infustry, is that it shouldn’t be used to make up the wages of those getting tipped. They should be getting a fair wage for their work, and tips are a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSouthEast Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Jesus, we're turning into America where tipping is mandatory. If the tip is required to maintain salaries then add it on to the cost of the day so there's no confusion. I really resent being forced to tip but am happy to do so when someone deserves just that... a tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 £10 per hundred birds + a sensible amount to show your appreciation of a job well done .£30 is plenty enough reward for a 150 bird day . Contrary to common belief Keepers do get paid + free vehicle , fuel, house and electricity .Grabbing ******** then go off for three weeks in Kenya or Caymon Isles.😃😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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