MarcMaxus Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 An awful story I've just come across. Just goes to show though how safety has to be paramount at all times. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/soldier-been-jailed-after-accidentally-15987723 2 lives and families devastated. It's Heart breaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 It is tragic - and goes to show how important the basic rules of safety are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Tragic. My very first lesson using a shotgun it was emphasised " never never ever point a gun at someone" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 The family have been more forgiving than I could be. First he leaves a live round in the gun, points it at his friend and pulls the trigger. Three mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'm sorry but I don't understand this as an accident. I've no doubt that he never intended to harm his friend but even in basic firearms training when I joined the RAF we were constantly told "empty or loaded makes no difference, never point a weapon at anyone unless you intend to kill them". When I was in the crewroom on my first operational squadron a corporal was showing off field-stripping and re-assembling his SLR. When he'd put back together he laid it on the table pointing straight at me and said "all I've got to do now is pull the trigger and ******** will be blown away". We were only on excercise so we had not been issued any live rounds so I knew it could not be loaded but I simply replied "if you don't point that away from me then I'll wrap that round your neck!!" He didn't move so I launched a kick so hard that when it hit the muzzle it flew up and the foresight hit him between the eyes and caused a cut that needed three stitches. All the other blokes in the crewroom let him know what a **** he'd been. Whenever I've taught my kids, grandkids or anyone else to use my guns then the first thing I've told them is "empty or loaded makes no difference, never point a weapon at anyone unless you intend to kill them". Tragic? Yes. An accident? not in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Whilst the three years is nothing to the guilt he has to live with having shot his best mate , it’s well justified given he broke the number one rule when dealing with any firearm from a cheap air pistol to a 50 cal ..don’t ever point it at anyone ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 An awful series of events which could have been so easily avoided. A sad sad story, and one the person responsible will have to live with for the rest of his life. How do you forgive yourself for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 at least two of the five basic military weapon handling rules broken. you never ever fool about with firearms. still a tragedy for those involved. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog1408 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Can't teach stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 You know what, I couldn’t even ‘point’ a gun I even knew 100% to be safe / empty at anyone else let alone pull the trigger. What’s the old rule ‘don’t point a gun at anything you don’t intend to kill’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Trying to say he hadn't been adequately trained was a poor attempt at an excuse. What did he think handguns were for? A tragedy for the poor lad killed. No sympathy for the idiot with the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, KFC said: I'm sorry but I don't understand this as an accident. Tragic? Yes. An accident? not in my opinion. You're saying this was murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 hours ago, chrisjpainter said: You're saying this was murder? 6 hours ago, chrisjpainter said: 9 hours ago, KFC said: I'm sorry but I don't understand this as an accident. Tragic? Yes. An accident? not in my opinion. By definition it is certainly an accident. But a totally preventable one for sure. I do not think there was anything premeditated about it but I think it fits the bill for manslaughter for sure. I agree that I think he got of lightly and is a lucky lad the family have been so keen to standby him, I wouldn't have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonSalop Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 hours ago, m3vert said: By definition it is certainly an accident. But a totally preventable one for sure. I do not think there was anything premeditated about it but I think it fits the bill for manslaughter for sure. I agree that I think he got of lightly and is a lucky lad the family have been so keen to standby him, I wouldn't have! There's no such thing as an accident - there's always a reason why something goes wrong. Cars, just the same. Prince Phillip's incident wasn't accidental - it happened because someone got something wrong. Same with the tragic event we are discussing here. It wasn't an accident - the guy who pulled the trigger was negligent. He certainly isn't guilty of murder but one of the definitions of manslaughter is probably appropriate. People who don't take sufficient care, always say "it was an accident". But there's no such thing as an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, WestonSalop said: But there's no such thing as an accident. This (relating to a tragic 'event') is not an appropriate place to discuss it, but I totally disagree with this statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 4 hours ago, m3vert said: By definition it is certainly an accident. But a totally preventable one for sure. I do not think there was anything premeditated about it but I think it fits the bill for manslaughter for sure. I agree that I think he got of lightly and is a lucky lad the family have been so keen to standby him, I wouldn't have! It was NOT an accident! He was playing around with a loaded weapon, he killed his best Mate. He was a fool! It is my Son's Regiment The defence attempted to claim the Army and the Weapon Training was at fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, WestonSalop said: He certainly isn't guilty of murder but one of the definitions of manslaughter is probably appropriate. People who don't take sufficient care, always say "it was an accident". But there's no such thing as an accident. L/Cpl Theaker, who was part of a detachment from 2nd Battlion The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment (2 LANCS) based at Camp Taji, pleaded guilty to manslaughter by gross negligence last month. He was jailed for three years after being sentenced at Catterick Garrison court martial centre and dismissed from her Majesty's service. If anyone thought it was an 'accident' then why was he charged and subsequently pleaded guilty to manslaughter. Its a tragic case, but people are responsible for their actions. There are such things as accidents however, sometimes a completely unforeseen event happens, that sometimes cant be attributed to an individual or group. The wind could bring a tree down and kill someone, would that be down to the last tree surgeon that looked at it, or is the owner of the property responsible ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 4 hours ago, WestonSalop said: There's no such thing as an accident - there's always a reason why something goes wrong. Cars, just the same. Prince Phillip's incident wasn't accidental - it happened because someone got something wrong. Same with the tragic event we are discussing here. It wasn't an accident - the guy who pulled the trigger was negligent. He certainly isn't guilty of murder but one of the definitions of manslaughter is probably appropriate. People who don't take sufficient care, always say "it was an accident". But there's no such thing as an accident. Read my post, by definition it was an accident. 3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: It was NOT an accident! He was playing around with a loaded weapon, he killed his best Mate. He was a fool! It is my Son's Regiment The defence attempted to claim the Army and the Weapon Training was at fault! Guys re-read what I wrote. By definition it was an accident.. It is defined as "An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury" When the idiot decided to play around with his handgun, yes he was negligent, yes he was stupid and yes he killed his best friend. We could all have predicted that this was a possibility when messing about with a handgun in this fashion, however he did not intentionally mean for this to happen and he did not expect this to happen, it resulted in injury to his friend thus it was by definition an accident! I fully agree he was a fool and personally I do not think the 3 year sentence is fit for the crime, he should have got longer. He was and is a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Absolutely idiotic behaviour, but I feel for all of them, I don't believe any prison sentence could ever match the guilt that guy will feel for the rest of his life, if the family of the deceased can find it in their hearts to forgive him, I don't think its for anyone else to punish him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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