GP Response Form Refusal

[Rab19]

Hi all, 

Just to put it out there that if anyone here is registered with the Nethergate Medical Surgery in Dundee, they are now refusing to fill in the GP response form.

Therefore obviously I have been informed by my FEO that I will have to change GP's for my FAC application to go forward.

So now I have the joy of moving GP's and waiting even longer for my FAC.

Needless to say I am ******* RAGING at this now.......

And before anyone asks There are no reasons for me not to get my FAC......................... except the voices tell me otherwise 

[HW95J]

Absolute nonsense, it should be nothing to do with whether they like shooting sports or approve of private firearms ownership. It's about being asked a question in a professional capacity and they should just answer it as appropriate! It's like that case recently of an Edinburgh practice who 'conscientiously object' to owning guns...unless you pay them £200 in which case no worries they'll sign you off. Robust morals indeed.

There needs to be a UK consensus on this. If they need to charge a fee then charge £25 or something not too high, make that fixed for everyone and don't refuse to do it. GPs can't refuse people medical care on the basis of other criteria so I don't understand why they can withhold a service because they disapprove.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Could your GP refuse to treat you for an ailment because you're a shooter?

Surely these intelligent people need to be told what to do!

[Walker570]

I believe you can have full printed details/reords of your treatment at your Doctors, ask for this and submit it to the FEO.   What more can your Doctor say than what is recorded on his records.

[Newbie to this]

9 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I believe you can have full printed details/reords of your treatment at your Doctors, ask for this and submit it to the FEO.   What more can your Doctor say than what is recorded on his records.

I know Kent will not accept this. Not sure if the following applies to renewals as well or just new applications.

Taken from their website

[JJsDad]

51 minutes ago, Rab19 said:

Nethergate Medical Surgery in Dundee, they are now refusing to fill in the GP response form.

Sorry to say you are not the only one in this predicament. My ticket is up for renewal at the end of this year and as another member on here had warned me off that my local practice was refusing to answer Police enquiries relating to firearms, during a recent appointment for a minor shoulder injury, I tackled my GP over this subject. He was quite happy to go through their policy, which is that they (as a practice) of 6 or 7 GPs made the decision some considerable time ago that they are GPs and not therefore qualified to comment on such enquiries.

They do not reply to enquiries from Kent Police and have not done so for at least 12 years. They are not anti-guns, they rightly or wrongly consider this is something hoisted on them by the Police where they may be held to account if there was an illegal incident or a suicide using a legally owned firearm where they have given writen consent that the owner is a fit & responsible individual.

Its not a simple case of changing  practice`s and hoping to get one who will sign the enquiry, because most practice`s down here are over subscribed and are probably going to take a dim view of someone jumping around changing GPs just to get an enquiry form signed.

Quite where that leaves me (and others using the same practice) I dont know.

I understand there are negotiations going on at present over the whole debarcle, I was going to give it a couple of months and see what BASC are doing and what their advice is.  At the moment I feel like the meat in a bureaucratic sandwich !

[Walker570]

Where does it say they will not accept your full medical records ?   They would be printed out by the surgery and on headed note paper.  You may, like me, occasionally see another Doctor at that surgery so are they suggesting you should get a letter from them all.    I would question how a letter signed by one Doctor satisfies the requirement when your full medical records are available.  I don't have that problem fortunately as my Doctor is a countryman through and through, but if I did then that would be the way I would go and certainly go to appeal if they refused.    Be interesting to see the Judges comments when you had given them your full medical details.

There are rare occurences where someone has been lucky and never seen a Doctor, then how does he/she stand.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Walker570

[panoma1]

Along with intentional delays in process, deliberate subjective interpretation of and ignoring home office guidelines, this is just another hurdle the police are chucking in front of shooters in order to delay/prevent/restrict private gun ownership!

[mick miller]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Along with intentional delays in process, deliberate subjective interpretation of and ignoring home office guidelines, this is just another hurdle the police are chucking in front of shooters in order to delay/prevent/restrict private gun ownership!

This. Just make it so unfeasibly difficult to apply for a renewal that you simply give up. Nice to see that our shooting organisations (all of them) are so vocal on the matter.

 

[Scully]

Those representative body fees still worth it? I'd be fuming too. The only way to give our shooting org's a kick up the bum and wake them up, is for all of us to refuse to renew until it is sorted. 

[Rim Fire]

I said about this a couple of months ago here in Wales and they would not except your medical records printed off because they can be altered to suit your needs so my mate had to sign a declaration form giving permission so the could send his records to them . He has now had his renewell through

Edited April 24, 2019 by Rim Fire

[udderlyoffroad]

18 hours ago, mick miller said:

Nice to see that our shooting organisations (all of them) are so vocal on the matter.

 

19 hours ago, Walker570 said:

There are rare occurences where someone has been lucky and never seen a Doctor, then how does he/she stand.

Has the OP even spoken to BASC?  It's easy to bemoan their lack of action, but if you don't let them know, they can't help.  Also every contact with them on this issue is a 'data point' to enable them to build a national picture and challenge Police forces/home office.

On the one occasion I’ve had to deal with them (I hadn’t been registered with a GP for years prior to my SGC application), they were responsive and  knowledgable.  They gave me some guidance on what form of words to write on the application, and it proved not to be an isuse.

[grrclark]

The shooting organisations have been utterly worthless on this front.  There is a huge disconnect between the Police, the BMA and the Home Office with the police in different regions choosing to interpret the HO guidelines to suit their own agendas and the BMA being bent out of shape (understandably in many ways) at the police approach.

The advice I had seen from BASC was not to pay a doctors fee, which in Scotland meant that the police simply refused to grant or renew your ticket, i know this is now happening in other regions of England and Wales too.  BASC then advised that you should pay in Scotland.  I get the feeling that should an individual shooter wish to pursue this through the courts to a judicial revue of how the firearms act is being applied that BASC would happily ride on the coat tails of that, but so far no sign of them looking to do anything meaningful and they simply continue to express their frustrations.

To the OP you could visit a private GP and have them tick the 3 boxes that need ticking after reviewing your records, but the practice still need to put markers on your medical record that state you are a firearms holder and acknowledge they have done so to the police.  A private consultation might cost you anywhere between £50 - £200.

 

[Dibble]

Do BASC have any data on the health benefits of shooting? Data from fitbit etc.

[button]

44 minutes ago, grrclark said:

The shooting organisations have been utterly worthless on this front.  There is a huge disconnect between the Police, the BMA and the Home Office with the police in different regions choosing to interpret the HO guidelines to suit their own agendas and the BMA being bent out of shape (understandably in many ways) at the police approach.

The advice I had seen from BASC was not to pay a doctors fee, which in Scotland meant that the police simply refused to grant or renew your ticket, i know this is now happening in other regions of England and Wales too.  BASC then advised that you should pay in Scotland.  I get the feeling that should an individual shooter wish to pursue this through the courts to a judicial revue of how the firearms act is being applied that BASC would happily ride on the coat tails of that, but so far no sign of them looking to do anything meaningful and they simply continue to express their frustrations.

To the OP you could visit a private GP and have them tick the 3 boxes that need ticking after reviewing your records, but the practice still need to put markers on your medical record that state you are a firearms holder and acknowledge they have done so to the police.  A private consultation might cost you anywhere between £50 - £200.

 

The practice do not have to put a marker on, mine didn't and wondered if it would cause issues but renewal went through fine with Police Scotland

[grrclark]

53 minutes ago, button said:

The practice do not have to put a marker on, mine didn't and wondered if it would cause issues but renewal went through fine with Police Scotland

Good to know.  Thanks.

[DUNKS]

I just cant see the excuse that doctors are not qualified to comment.

The police are not asking any doctor to state whether you are safe to own firearms.

They are asking if you suffer or have suffered from certain ailments and the police make the decision not the doctor. So no comeback on the doctor if it all goes pear shaped.

I would suggest that a lot of tales of what some doctors have said are just that "tales"

[Gordon R]

DUNKS - a rather sweeping generalisation - casting doubt on the honesty of posters - without a scrap of proof.

[JJsDad]

9 hours ago, DUNKS said:

I would suggest that a lot of tales of what some doctors have said are just that "tales"

If as I suspect it is my  earlier comments that you are refering too; I strongly resent resent your `suggestion`

Perhaps you would care to ring `Downs Way Medical Practice`, Istead Rise, in Kent & ask them their policy on responding to the Kent Police requirement for a GPs letter when applying for or renewing  a SGC or FAC. I would then hope you will have the common decency to to admit that your suggestion was a case of engaging brain before opening mouth. If you cant google the phone number, I will dig it out for you.

Edited April 27, 2019 by JJsDad
Spelling

[DUNKS]

I do of course apologise to you. But not all stories of what doctors have or have not said are true. People pick up on a theme and add to it without knowledge. I am sure your particular experience is correct.

My local police are sending a questionnaire on ailments for the doctor to fill in. No responsibility is placed on the doctor as to the suitability of a person to have firearms. I just cant see any police authority putting the doctor in a position of making this decision himself.  If they do then of course they are going to refuse. They are there for medical matters not decisions on firearms ownership. Have you contacted the police to see why they are asking the doctors to make these decisions?

Edited April 27, 2019 by DUNKS

[JJsDad]

 

39 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Have you contacted the police to see why they are asking the doctors to make these decisions?

To answer your question, yes; in the light that my licence is up for renewal later this year I have spoken to Kent Police Firearms Dept and my local FEO. As expected, the response is common in that their policy has changed and they will not process initial applications or renewals unless supported by a GPs letter. While BASC responded quickly to my enquiry about this matter and acknowledged that a number of forces are implementing this policy they did not offer a solution or suggest that there is any immediate about turn by the forces involved.

The reasons given by Kent Police are reproduced from their website below:

[GingerCat]

You'd think that one of the shooting organisations or perhaps all of them acting together, would seek judicial clarity on the necessity of a dr's report prior to application or on renewal. Given that it is not in the legislation and seems entirely at the forces discretion. 

There would be little to lose as most forces are either doing it or about to. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, GingerCat said:

You'd think that one of the shooting organisations or perhaps all of them acting together, would seek judicial clarity on the necessity of a dr's report prior to application or on renewal. Given that it is not in the legislation and seems entirely at the forces discretion. 

There would be little to lose as most forces are either doing it or about to. 

You would, but all of the words are in the form of guidance from the Home Office and are all down to individual interpretation!

[GingerCat]

15 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You would, but all of the words are in the form of guidance from the Home Office and are all down to individual interpretation!

But a crown court judge could rule on it and set precedence. After all there is primary legislation there and if not interpreted in the spirit parliament wanted it needs clarity.

[DUNKS]

2 hours ago, GingerCat said:

But a crown court judge could rule on it and set precedence. After all there is primary legislation there and if not interpreted in the spirit parliament wanted it needs clarity.

My FEO "Derbyshire" told me at my renewal that the police would welcome a decision from a judge on what exactly is needed and what doctors fee is reasonable. Also a requirement that the doctor must comply. So that they are all singing from the same sheet but no organisation will take it on.