NoBodyImportant Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Gordon R said: I don't see the difference. A young lad is dead because of the action of two idiots (who are now jailed) and you think he shared blame? Bizarre view of the year. It’s like this. If your drunk and you get in a car with a drunk driver then you share the blame for your death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: It’s like this. If your drunk and you get in a car with a drunk driver then you share the blame for your death. Hear what you're saying, but it's based on the assumption that the drunk passenger is sober enough to recognise that the driver is drunk. Similarly, you're assuming that the young lad had sufficient experience with, and knowledge about, shotguns to understand that his mates either didn't or couldn't care less about safety and the law. The only thing that you possibly be critical about the lad is is regarding his choice of mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, wymberley said: Hear what you're saying, but it's based on the assumption that the drunk passenger is sober enough to recognise that the driver is drunk. Similarly, you're assuming that the young lad had sufficient experience with, and knowledge about, shotguns to understand that his mates either didn't or couldn't care less about safety and the law. The only thing that you possibly be critical about the lad is is regarding his choice of mates. I see your point. But if tax payers are going to feed and house some body for 7 years it should be because they are to dangerous to walk the street. This guy will never own a gun again. He is not a danger. Maybe 1 year to punish him plus say 20% of his earnings for ten years to his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: I see your point. But if tax payers are going to feed and house some body for 7 years it should be because they are to dangerous to walk the street. This guy will never own a gun again. He is not a danger. Maybe 1 year to punish him plus say 20% of his earnings for ten years to his family. He’s not going to earn anything what use is a game keeper without a gun license the rules are easy enough to follow he ignored them and a young lad is dead he was negligent totally and so was his associate sympathy for the lads family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Old farrier said: He’s not going to earn anything what use is a game keeper without a gun license the rules are easy enough to follow he ignored them and a young lad is dead he was negligent totally and so was his associate sympathy for the lads family I think his career as a game keeper would be over. Washing cars while paying the victims family 20 percent of your earnings would suck worse then setting in jail watching tv. Mabey UK jails are different but in the US They have TVs, gyms, basketball courts, tennis, ping pong ect.... At least make him leave prison every day to go to a factory and earn money to pay restitution to the family and to reimburse the state for the cost of his imprisonment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 Should have been 10yrs minimum. He will be out in five walking the streets, probably on social ...think about it. ANY compassion for these two idiots is dreadfully misplaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 But why why take a gun out when going for a drink I just don’t understand that. If the old bill had pulled them for spot check he would automatically lose is license so why did he take it with him ❓❓ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: I think his career as a game keeper would be over. Washing cars while paying the victims family 20 percent of your earnings would suck worse then setting in jail watching tv. Mabey UK jails are different but in the US They have TVs, gyms, basketball courts, tennis, ping pong ect.... At least make him leave prison every day to go to a factory and earn money to pay restitution to the family and to reimburse the state for the cost of his imprisonment. Yeah, I could go for that. Whilst I have little sympathy for either of the two jailed, I seriously doubt there was any malicious intent ( although if ones first priority was to think about ringing someone to put his guns away, it shows him to have a self centred outlook ) from anyone involved, just a grossly slap dash attitude to gun ownership and the responsibilities involved therein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) There's so much wrong with the whole scenario that it's difficult to know where to start. 1) They were on a drink and drive pub crawl. 2) There was a shotgun in the cab, loaded or otherwise. OK, everyone involved was an adult, but Wilson was not only the eldest by a significant few years, he was also the boss and it was his gun that was unsecured It's only right therefore that he should carry most of the blame. I think that young Fitzsimmons is quite possibly more culpable that he's letting on, but (thankfully) British law requires more than speculation to convict so he faced a lesser charge than he might possibly have deserved. But at the end of the day the whole episode was a tragedy. Unlike your average crime there was no malice on anyone's part, nobody set out to do anyone harm. Probably one thing led to another and just by pure chance the axe fell. It's a good lesson though. The 'rules' are there for a reason, a reason that 99 percent of the time will never materialize. But when it does... It's the parents, siblings, family of all of them that I feel sorry for. A single afternoons stupidity and now there are so many lives tragically altered for the worse. It's all very, very sad. Edited June 28, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Retsdon said: There's so much wrong with the whole scenario that it's difficult to know where to start. 1) They were on a drink and drive pub crawl. 2) There was a shotgun in the cab, loaded or otherwise. OK, everyone involved was an adult, but Wilson was not only the eldest by a significant few years, he was also the boss and it was his gun that was unsecured It's only right therefore that he should carry most of the blame. I think that young Fitzsimmons is quite possibly more culpable that he's letting on, but (thankfully) British law requires more than speculation to convict so he faced a lesser charge than he might possibly have deserved. But at the end of the day the whole episode was a tragedy. Unlike your average crime there was no malice on anyone's part, nobody set out to do anyone harm. Probably one thing led to another and just by pure chance the axe fell. It's a good lesson though. The 'rules' are there for a reason, a reason that 99 percent of the time will never materialize. But when it does... It's the parents, siblings, family of all of them that I feel sorry for. A single afternoons stupidity and now there are so many lives tragically altered for the worse. It's all very, very sad. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, Retsdon said: There's so much wrong with the whole scenario that it's difficult to know where to start. 1) They were on a drink and drive pub crawl. 2) There was a shotgun in the cab, loaded or otherwise. OK, everyone involved was an adult, but Wilson was not only the eldest by a significant few years, he was also the boss and it was his gun that was unsecured It's only right therefore that he should carry most of the blame. I think that young Fitzsimmons is quite possibly more culpable that he's letting on, but (thankfully) British law requires more than speculation to convict so he faced a lesser charge than he might possibly have deserved. But at the end of the day the whole episode was a tragedy. Unlike your average crime there was no malice on anyone's part, nobody set out to do anyone harm. Probably one thing led to another and just by pure chance the axe fell. It's a good lesson though. The 'rules' are there for a reason, a reason that 99 percent of the time will never materialize. But when it does... It's the parents, siblings, family of all of them that I feel sorry for. A single afternoons stupidity and now there are so many lives tragically altered for the worse. It's all very, very sad. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 On 25/06/2019 at 22:19, Rewulf said: *You're. 😉 Wow! I bet you've been to university. Really helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 54 minutes ago, Retsdon said: .... (Snipped) It's the parents, siblings, family of all of them that I feel sorry for. A single afternoons stupidity and now there are so many lives tragically altered for the worse. It's all very, very sad. Very much this, however there are so many that think it is a black and white matter and Foxtrot Yankee because of that. Having owned semis for yonks I know that sometimes the slide in the magazine can stick or cant slightly sideways causing the magazine to seem empty. Two cycles and nothing, third one puts it into the chamber, clumsy guy in the front seat taps the trigger, nightmare scenario. Yes putting it away in a slip, in the boot would have been safer and a safety plug even safer, but so is the majority of things in retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Walker570 said: ... ANY compassion for these two idiots is dreadfully misplaced. I don't know really. Nobody set out to do someone harm. Rather they were guilty of a series of extremely dopey decisions or choices that, compounded together, finished up in a disaster. Sure, they were guilty of gross stupidity and now they're paying the cost, and they'll pay it for the rest of their lives. I have compassion for them. Stupidity is not malevolence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, henry d said: Very much this, however there are so many that think it is a black and white matter and Foxtrot Yankee because of that. Having owned semis for yonks I know that sometimes the slide in the magazine can stick or cant slightly sideways causing the magazine to seem empty. Two cycles and nothing, third one puts it into the chamber, clumsy guy in the front seat taps the trigger, nightmare scenario. Yes putting it away in a slip, in the boot would have been safer and a safety plug even safer, but so is the majority of things in retrospect. To be honest, this is the main reason I never owned a semi or pump. You can't see at a glance if they're loaded or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Retsdon said: To be honest, this is the main reason I never owned a semi or pump. You can't see at a glance if they're loaded or not. What a load of trollop. Owned and used semi autos and pumps for the last 50yrs and 14 yrs of that professionally. These idots took the life of a young man and your trying to make excuses for them. Check, check and check again with any gun. No excuses no ifs no buts, they took a young life as a result. Deserve every minute they get, but I guarantee some soft hearted snowflake will come forward and say they have been good boys in prison , found god or something and they will be let out. MAYBE as with recent private run prisons, let out by mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Walker570 said: ...Deserve every minute they get, but I guarantee some soft hearted snowflake will come forward and say they have been good boys in prison , found god or something and they will be let out. MAYBE as with recent private run prisons, let out by mistake. Strange that you take for granted that snowflakes and private run prisons are inherently flawed but people are not, excellent reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Walker570 said: What a load of trollop Not at all. I don't mind betting that if the gun had been a sXS the accident wouldn't have happened. All firearms are potentially unsafe and some are, not surprisingly, more unsafe than others. That's just how it works. But that's not to cast aspirations on any of them Edited June 28, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 I'm sure the same argument came out when guns went hammerless. I've owned pumps and semis all the time ive had my tickets and never pulled one out the bag with a shell in the mag. Him being a keeper, a regular user, no excuses. Don't care if you lock the mag off, no shells in while in transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said: I'm sure the same argument came out when guns went hammerless. I've owned pumps and semis all the time ive had my tickets and never pulled one out the bag with a shell in the mag. Him being a keeper, a regular user, no excuses. Don't care if you lock the mag off, no shells in while in transport. hello, i have a safety gadget/ flag you put in breech, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 I know a former keeper ( and a farmer now I come to think of it 😳) who drove around with a loaded pump ( not sure if there was one up the spout ) in the footwell of their respective vehicles, ready to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, DUNKS said: Wow! I bet you've been to university. Really helps. I was being sarcastic at his sarcastic comment. No it doesnt 'help' Neither does your comment. 20 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Not at all. I don't mind betting that if the gun had been a sXS the accident wouldn't have happened. Yes, a closed SXS is easy to tell whether its loaded or not 😐 NOT. An open breech on a semi or pump usually denotes the gun is not ready to fire, so is visibly 'safe' If it is closed, the same way a SXS or O/U is closed denotes the gun is NOT safe. Im sure there are exceptions, but when a semi is unloaded (racked) the breech stays open when the last cartridge has been ejected. So if whoever cleared the gun couldnt see that, then Im sorry but they either havnt got a clue, or never cleared it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 On 27/06/2019 at 19:01, Walker570 said: Absolutely and frightening such idiots are about and SUPPOSED to be professional as well. AND IT WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT. An ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scully said: I know a former keeper ( and a farmer now I come to think of it 😳) who drove around with a loaded pump ( not sure if there was one up the spout ) in the footwell of their respective vehicles, ready to go! I have a loaded rifle and pistol in my truck at all times. Never had a issue. It’s the stupidity that caused the problem, not the loaded shotgun. Mind don’t bounce around the footwell and point at the head of my passagers though. Edited June 28, 2019 by NoBodyImportant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: I have a loaded rifle and pistol in my truck at all times. Never had a issue. It’s the stupidity that caused the problem, not the loaded shotgun. Mind don’t bounce around the footwell and point at the head of my passagers though. That’s because you have the freedoms to allow you to do such things. In this country you would be in serious trouble if caught in town with a loaded firearm in your vehicle. The only people who can do that in this country are either criminals or the Police. 😉 Im not denying it was stupidity which caused it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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