mick miller Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) Quote Scientific research published in March this year, based on data from Natural England, showed that 72 per cent of satellite-tagged hen harriers were considered or confirmed to have been illegally killed, and were 10 times more likely to die or disappear over grouse moor than any other type of land use. https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/education/joy-as-22-hen-harrier-chicks-fledge-from-nests-in-forest-of-bowland-1-9907560?fbclid=IwAR2PG1rbzzo2OE2oy3Nn4g67ReEtqqt4WQMRSDEDcCKkuUEsGvpdMQnivFQ Edited August 1, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeydredd Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 well, they would certainly be more likely to disappear over heather moorland as that is the habitat they prefer to live on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Concidered means they have no idea how they disappeared. Confirmed means they do know but what about a truthful report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) I think they need to establish what percentage were ‘confirmed’ and how they establish what ‘considered’ means really, before they throw figures around. Edited August 1, 2019 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mickeydredd said: well, they would certainly be more likely to disappear over heather moorland as that is the habitat they prefer to live on That is pure common sense but not likely to be rvealed to the genral public. A very one sided report with little evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Most scientific research of this type is published by somebody writing a thesis as part of their study towards a PhD. The nature of the educational qualification is that they have to discover or identify "something of scientific interest or significance" So the dice are loaded, they can't say we found absolutely no evidence to support...…….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 72% of how many tagged Hen Harriers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 If thats the study I read they use a peculiar method. Despite the trackers aparently being able in other cases being able to identify locate a bird to within a few meters they use grid squares 20KM across to identify if they disappeared on a grouse moor, if the 20KM grid square contains a grouse moor they deem it significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 There is absolutely no link between a bird being lost to the survey and the assertion that it was illegally killed. The case could easily and equally be made for Alien abduction or predation by big cats. Not to mention bird flu and killed by pesticides or hit by drones. Seriously though, could have easily been netted by "bird rustlers" who do sell them on at great profit Must not jump to conclusions that can't be proved unless you are an anti with an agenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Hen Harriers hunt at low level in a curios undulating flight that's why they are nicknamed "sky dancers" I believe? They hunt roadside verges as well as open moorland......I believe many of these "missing" birds to be road casualties! I have personally witnessed a Hen Harrier colliding with a lorry I was following, on a country road through open moorland in Scotland, I stopped and removed the legring, when I got home I sent information away to the contact address given on the ring, I had a response giving me some information, this was many years ago......I still have the ring somewhere! Slow, low flying Harriers and automobiles travelling at speed don't mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 time some opened up their eyes a bit. Hen Harriers are very efficient predators of grouse and their chicks, they are basically incompatible with driven grouse shooting. As they say......you do the math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 9 hours ago, scolopax said: time some opened up their eyes a bit. Hen Harriers are very efficient predators of grouse and their chicks, they are basically incompatible with driven grouse shooting. As they say......you do the math Could you elaborate or explain your comment a little? Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 9 hours ago, panoma1 said: Hen Harriers hunt at low level in a curios undulating flight that's why they are nicknamed "sky dancers" I believe? They hunt roadside verges as well as open moorland......I believe many of these "missing" birds to be road casualties! I have personally witnessed a Hen Harrier colliding with a lorry I was following, on a country road through open moorland in Scotland, I stopped and removed the legring, when I got home I sent information away to the contact address given on the ring, I had a response giving me some information, this was many years ago......I still have the ring somewhere! Slow, low flying Harriers and automobiles travelling at speed don't mix! This exactly my thoughts on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, eddoakley said: Could you elaborate or explain your comment a little? Edd Think they're saying they agree with the report. Shame if true as there is no fact or evidence to suggest 50%+ are being persicuted. I run a shoot and not once would I or have I raised a gun to anything that's illegal, I let hawks and badgers out of fox traps and let them be. Yet some 'report' or 'anti' could make utter carp up in a paper saying I break the law every time I walk out the house. And people lap it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 46.2 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot, 98.5 pecent of people believe them no matter if they are accurate statistics or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 41 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: 46.2 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot, 98.5 pecent of people believe them no matter if they are accurate statistics or not! Wasn't it one of your past presidents who said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"........very perceptive man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Wasn't it one of your past presidents who said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"........very perceptive man! That was Benjamin Disraeli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, Penelope said: That was Benjamin Disraeli. Yep! Penelope your right! Just checked, Attributed to Disraeli by Mark Twain apparantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 A high % (normally over 50%) of successfully fledged raptors die within year 1 due to natural causes, with HHs being particularly susceptible. Some papers suggesting around 70% natural mortality in year 1 for HHs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Piebob said: A high % (normally over 50%) of successfully fledged raptors die within year 1 due to natural causes, with HHs being particularly susceptible. Some papers suggesting around 70% natural mortality in year 1 for HHs. This. The thing with the fluffy bunny brigade, is that they seem to give the impression that they believe wild animals left alone without human interference, live to a ripe old age and die peacefully in front of a fire with their slippers on, when in fact reaching old age is the exception; the rule being that the vast majority come to a sticky end when in their prime, or before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Piebob said: A high % (normally over 50%) of successfully fledged raptors die within year 1 due to natural causes, with HHs being particularly susceptible. Some papers suggesting around 70% natural mortality in year 1 for HHs. I wonder how much that would increase when lugging a tracker around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted August 3, 2019 Report Share Posted August 3, 2019 I genuinely dont think they're persecuted to the extent people want the public is lead to believe. They hunt roadside verges so they're going to come into conflict with cars. They're BOP so dont breed as prolifically as other birds so a bad year weather wise will wipe out an entire generation before it's even fledged. Pestilence and bad luck will kill a large amount of the birds before they're even a year old. I'm sure like everything else theres the odd person that breaks the law and will shoot one but that's different to them being persecuted for living on a grouse moor. As a race humans have developed better and better strategies to keep our young alive - super premature babies are surviving being born younger and younger for example - but it wasnt long ago we were having 10, 11, 12 kids to make sure at least one or two made it to adulthood. Unfortunately for the hen harriers et al they're lacking the opposable thumb and brain power to discover the wonders of veterinary science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 Years ago people were having lots of kids , due to no birth control . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 3 hours ago, johnphilip said: Years ago people were having lots of kids , due to no birth control . And no TV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 02/08/2019 at 18:04, bluesj said: I wonder how much that would increase when lugging a tracker around? They certainly don't help, that's for sure. Have a look at this guys musings, sketches, and photos. https://davidadamsketchbook.wordpress.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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