Brexit - merged threads

[Gordon R]

Why is Farage taking stick again? Some seem oblivious to how much he has just achieved.

As for a "confirmatory vote" - just when would this be held.? Who would know what they were voting for and we don't know the trading position after we leave, until we leave. It's pure scaremongering of the worst kind. Those who say we be better off financially or worse off financially after Brexit are delusional. No-one actually knows, but it doesn't stop people spouting junk.

[ditchman]

at least something pro-active is going to happen shortly

it has been reported that The Brexit Party bods will be meeting with the EU guys that have been tasked with a No-Deal senario.............that working group has been about a fair while now and have always said their door is open ...but until now no one has taken them up on their stance../ offer.........

it may not seem important but i think it is.......it will start off as an exploratory meeting and could well end up as a plan B agreement...and something which could be very acceptable to all/most people..........because up till now........describing no-deal brexit has been all surmise.............if something solid comes out of this ...it would stabilse the markets ...get people off the fence...and put a lot of fears to bed.............

be interesting to see what comes out of Farages camp in the next few weeks..........if clarity comes out of it...it could be the making of a proper politican

[old man]

15 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

It's the workers and unions that ensure those rights are not abused by Government.

Who would ensure the EU does not abuse rights, the European army?

[Raja Clavata]

So, apparently, we wouldn't know what we are voting for in a confirmatory vote but knew what we were voting for in the original one. Interesting.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, ditchman said:

at least something pro-active is going to happen shortly

it has been reported that The Brexit Party bods will be meeting with the EU guys that have been tasked with a No-Deal senario.............that working group has been about a fair while now and have always said their door is open ...but until now no one has taken them up on their stance../ offer.........

it may not seem important but i think it is.......it will start off as an exploratory meeting and could well end up as a plan B agreement...and something which could be very acceptable to all/most people..........because up till now........describing no-deal brexit has been all surmise.............if something solid comes out of this ...it would stabilse the markets ...get people off the fence...and put a lot of fears to bed.............

be interesting to see what comes out of Farages camp in the next few weeks..........if clarity comes out of it...it could be the making of a proper politican

Good point Mate.

And as the 31st of October comes in to view and the Tories decide who will lead them along the tainted path to oblivion, a General Election will come along and screw it all up AGAIN!

[mick miller]

There is a clear majority for remain though. If you take the recent EU elections where there was a huge 38% turnout and EU nationals were allowed to vote and then you lump all the parties that campaigned on a platform of Remain together, along with a few girl guide groups and the local brass band you'll see they got 40% of the vote.

If you look at the vote share of UKIP and the Brexit party in isolation, ignoring the two major parties that campaigned at the last election on a promise to honour the result of the referendum and leave the EU, then they got 2% less, which is the anyone's eyes is a clear mandate to remain, although totally skewed and biased. 😂🤣😜

Edited May 29, 2019 by mick miller

[pinfireman]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

More testicles, you have the option to not fund the labour party, many don`t, including (when I was in a union) me.

Then check where their majority funds come from, under a Freedom of Information Act!  It,s not from the £3 membership! Or do they have funding from abroad?

12 hours ago, tandytommo said:

And where is darling Dave  now? you can't trust a Tory!!!!

And you would trust a supporter of the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Maduro etc etc  more? If so, why?

[pinfireman]

11 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I never said happy or intended to imply any such thing.

In the micro and macro scheme of things, life isn't fair, not my call but if it was I'd take ~33% of the population left outraged over risking flushing my kids futures down the drain (or risking them having to move from their motherland in order to prosper).

To be clear I'm using my kids as an example.

Surely the massive influx of  cheap labour, from the EU, and the Third World, puts your kids futures equally at risk? 

[panoma1]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

More testicles, you have the option to not fund the labour party, many don`t, including (when I was in a union) me.

When I was in the union..........I chose not to fund the Labour Party also! 

[pinfireman]

10 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think my analogy works.

I think the desperation comes in when people see their <insert whatever you want to characterise it as> choice being thwarted. Some are so bought into it that they want to see it through come hell or high water, anyone and everything offering an alternative outcome is an enemy to democracy.

Fairness, democracy and all that, all very well and good but they need to be rationalised against reality.

You don't leave on VR without the package being delivered to your account - sorry, but your analogy doesn't work and highlights fundamental issues with Brexit. Not least good old Nige doing one as soon as he got the vote he wanted (and saw what a mess he had help create).

Nigel Farage left UKIP IMMEDIATELY after the Referendum, well before the MESS that Westminster created! He believed, like so many others, that the job was done, and that the politicians would keep their promises!  In that, he was wrong,  as most of them wanted to keep their snouts in the EU trough!

10 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Why is Farage taking stick again? Some seem oblivious to how much he has just achieved.

As for a "confirmatory vote" - just when would this be held.? Who would know what they were voting for and we don't know the trading position after we leave, until we leave. It's pure scaremongering of the worst kind. Those who say we be better off financially or worse off financially after Brexit are delusional. No-one actually knows, but it doesn't stop people spouting junk.

True! 

[mick miller]

Remember people, most of the trade with the EU is on WTO,  what's the issue with trading (temporarily) on WTO again?

[Dave-G]

13 hours ago, henry d said:

More testicles, you have the option to not fund the labour party, many don`t, including (when I was in a union) me.

Oh, I was escorted off a building site about 40 years ago by a shop steward because I refused to join their union - I think it was called something like a closed shop where there was no choice, perhaps things have changed since then.

13 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Saw her interviewed last week and I agree. Seems to mean what she says and not live in lah lah land.

Trouble is TM sounded convincing at the time she was elected. 😞

 

[henry d]

1 minute ago, Dave-G said:

Oh, I was escorted off a building site about 40 years ago by a shop steward because I refused to join their union - I think it was called something like a closed shop where there was no choice, perhaps things have changed since then.

I think they were "outlawed" shortly after that time

[Raja Clavata]

Looks like Boris could be in a bit of a pickle over his £350M EU claims. I'm confident that, regardless of individual persuasion on Brexit all good democrats and supporters of justice will be pleased to see a politician being held to account in misleading the public...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Looks like Boris could be in a bit of a pickle over his £350M EU claims. I'm confident that, regardless of individual persuasion on Brexit all good democrats and supporters of justice will be pleased to see a politician being held to account in misleading the public...

Oh yes, it is at least a start, the list is long and not very distinguished!

[WestonSalop]

28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Looks like Boris could be in a bit of a pickle over his £350M EU claims. I'm confident that, regardless of individual persuasion on Brexit all good democrats and supporters of justice will be pleased to see a politician being held to account in misleading the public...

Lovable rogue he may be (and probably the best ever presenter of Have I Got News for You!) but he has to face the music. Boris is in love with himself and seems to treat politics as a game, forgetting its people's lives and livelihoods at stake. Matters not to me who leads the Tories next, as I won't be voting for them, irrelevant of what the next leader promises. But a charlatan such as Boris must not be allowed to succeed. And as for Jezza - lord help us...……...

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, mick miller said:

Remember people, most of the trade with the EU is on WTO,  what's the issue with trading (temporarily) on WTO again?

Most of the profitable trade that the UK does with Europe is on services our trade in goods is only worth 10% of our GDP. This trade in services (the bulk of our business) will be excluded under standard WTO terms and subject to negotiation with the EU. That is why a number of firms are moving facilities to the EU, both for service delivery and for tax. 

We can copy the WTO rules that the EU currently adopts on our behalf but we will still have to agree quotas with the EU that we will apply to other third countries. We will also have to go back to the EU to agree our subsidy rates for agriculture, which have been agreed by the EU, with the WTO, at a higher rate than the 5% of the countries total agriculture production that the WTO applies.

 It has yet to be agreed if this subsidy cap will be shared with the UK. Because UK farming is larger and less efficient there is a risk (not yet resolved) that the current levels of subsidy paid to UK farmers (under the EU enhanced limit) could be in breach of WTO rules. If we lower tariffs or subsidies farming will face a double hit from more imports and lower subsidies.

Both quota's and subsidies divided are worth less than the sum of their parts. 

There is a suggestion that we will be free to do trade deals around the world but these trade deals may be incompatible with UK-EU trade regime and expose farmers to, tariff free, subsidy free, highly competitive overseas suppliers. 

It's unlikely that WTO terms will be anything like short term.

WTO tariffs currently applied by the EU for farming include 35.9% for dairy, 15.5% for animal products. The US has made it clear that free trade in agricultural goods will be a critical element of any free trade deal between the UK and the US. 

 

[Rewulf]

An American take on the EU.

https://internationalman.com/articles/doug-casey-on-quitaly-and-the-collapse-of-the-eu/?fbclid=IwAR2GOMSuPSUDCmq2Jxs6Cy5UelcmN-EcVoB7JmkKjQMF00jc7d7hxl7JkRk#.XO0o6hwJhSc.facebook

[mick miller]

42 minutes ago, oowee said:

This trade in services (the bulk of our business) will be excluded under standard WTO terms and subject to negotiation with the EU. That is why a number of firms are moving facilities to the EU, both for service delivery and for tax.

I wouldn't worry about services (financial) the assets are in place to keep the wheels turning on this, shell offices popping up all over the EU The bulk of the work, jobs, employment will still be based in London, the recent investment by a number of firms that I am, sadly, not at liberty to mention is massive and it's not based or focused on anywhere other than London.

[oowee]

24 minutes ago, mick miller said:

I wouldn't worry about services (financial) the assets are in place to keep the wheels turning on this, shell offices popping up all over the EU The bulk of the work, jobs, employment will still be based in London, the recent investment by a number of firms that I am, sadly, not at liberty to mention is massive and it's not based or focused on anywhere other than London.

Shame then about all the ones we are loosing. 

[mick miller]

British Steel? Knackered for years, and bled dry by the investment firms. Crippled by the inability to receive state financial support, as per the rules of, hang on, I can't remember... it'll come to me.

Car industry? Trade deal done with the EU & Japan, so those were going to be chopped inevitably too. Shame we sold everything off to European and International firms, but that's an issue wider than Brexit and has more to do with the psyche and short term make-money-while-you-can attitude of the British.

In services, sciences and creative industries we're still batting it out of the park. There's an argument to be made to really encourage those industries post exit.

Edited May 29, 2019 by mick miller

[old man]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Looks like Boris could be in a bit of a pickle over his £350M EU claims. I'm confident that, regardless of individual persuasion on Brexit all good democrats and supporters of justice will be pleased to see a politician being held to account in misleading the public...

We can certainly agree on that.

Many more should be put before the courts for testing.

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, mick miller said:

British Steel? Knackered for years, and bled dry by the investment firms. Crippled by the inability to receive state financial support, as per the rules of, hang on, I can't remember... it'll come to me.

Car industry? Trade deal done with the EU & Japan, so those were going to be chopped inevitably too. Shame we sold everything off to European and International firms, but that's an issue wider than Brexit and has more to do with the psyche and short term make-money-while-you-can attitude of the British.

In services, sciences and creative industries we're still batting it out of the park. There's an argument to be made to really encourage those industries post exit.

Japanese electronics’ manufacturer Panasonic is moving its European HQ from the UK to Amsterdam. This move is reportedly designed to limit tax issues linked to Brexit.

Sony is also moving its European HQ to The Netherlands to minimise Brexit disruption.

Japanese retailer Muji is rumoured to be moving its European HQ from the UK to Germany.

Japanese banks Nomura and Daiwa are setting up EU operations in Germany. And, subject to regulatory approval, Japan’s Norinchukin Bank has recently confirmed that, in response to the UK’s planned withdrawal from the EU and other changes to the European economic environment, it is establishing a wholly-owned banking subsidiary in Amsterdam.

Insurance and reinsurance market Lloyds of London announced in May that it had received regulatory approval from the National Bank of Belgium to establish an insurance company in Brussels.

Hermes Investment Management has recently opened a branch in Dublin to mitigate against Brexit risks.

Many smaller businesses are also looking at establishing European bases too. Online giftware retailer Rex London is setting up a Dutch base and The Grown Up Chocolate Company is considering relocating its business to Slovakia, for example.

Jlr slovakia, DLA piper Dublin, Ferrovial Amsterdam,  Tokiyo Marine Luxembourg,  Aviva Ireland, TP ICAP Paris,  L&G Dublin,  Morgan Stanley Paris and Frankfurt.

[Walker570]

3 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Oh, I was escorted off a building site about 40 years ago by a shop steward because I refused to join their union - I think it was called something like a closed shop where there was no choice, perhaps things have changed since then.

Trouble is TM sounded convincing at the time she was elected. 😞

 

Not to me she didn't...as said by others...it is all in the eyes.  Wouldn't trust the woman right from the start.

[Bazooka Joe]

Quote

I'm confident that, regardless of individual persuasion on Brexit all good democrats and supporters of justice will be pleased to see a politician being held to account in misleading the public...

Totally agree, but will it happen, classic example is Blair & Campbell over war crimes........don't hold your breath

While they are on with Boris they can add these two cretins as well.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1133718809255272448

Edited May 29, 2019 by Bazooka Joe