Raja Clavata Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Turkey WAS going to join the EU , the negotiations were at an advanced stage, with visa free travel as a precursor imminent. Cyprus was a sticking point, but what really put the kibosh on was Erdogans human rights violations, and the fact he had gone towards a more harder line Islamic society. A few orders for Russian arms, and Turkeys ascension was effectively stopped. This is all on public record, so its hardly 'lies' Nobody is contesting that, it was all the fears about 5.2M immigrants from Turkey by 2030 that I was referring to, even a certain Mr Gove admitted last year that it was bad form for the Leave campaign to stoke fears around this. 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: Taken from the UK embassy page in 2016 Taken from the page today, things have slightly changed but only due to Turkey's poor human rights standards. We are still aspiring to help them join. Link https://www.gov.uk/world/turkey/news So hardly fake news or project fear, the UK was and still is trying to help Turkey join the EU. See my reply to Rewulf 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Except when they put forward the (failed ) proposal to ban all semi auto centre fires across the board, INCLUDING S/A sec 2 shotguns, and 'military' style .22 lrs. Dont think they wont try that one again. The fact is, it was in my opinion a draconian bill of laws, designed to take away a large section of firearms from legitimate licensed users, it doesnt matter that it (eventually ) didnt affect us. It ran on the back of terrorist acts within the EU , but targeted people like you and me, are you OK with that ? So the 'draconian laws' you refer to are what might possibly happen, rather than a concern over what has happened. The pressure for review and change is a given. The proposed offensive weapons bill was a proposal from this Team Tory shower, rather than the EU. Fact. Combined, EU hunters are a larger minority than UK hunters alone. We as citizens have a fall back appeal mechanism against unreasonable government legislation through the EU courts. We have a larger more adequately funded lobbying base, EU wide, than we do on as and independent nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 18 hours ago, pinfireman said: Yes, it should, but take a look at the political make-up of the Electoral Commission! Well, take it then! No one stopping you! What about the others mentioned? and the Electoral Commission have done...................NOTHING! Try complaining to the Electoral Commission! See what answer you get.............. Petition to investigate postal voting in Peterborough here: https://www.change.org/p/men-previously-convicted-on-postal-vote-fraud-employed-by-labour-during-this-by-election-investigate-the-postal-votes-that-were-counted-in-the-peterborough-by-election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Nobody is contesting that, it was all the fears about 5.2M immigrants from Turkey by 2030 that I was referring to, even a certain Mr Gove admitted last year that it was bad form for the Leave campaign to stoke fears around this. See my reply to Rewulf 👍 So if they did manage to join, what would be stopping 5.2M coming from Turkey by 2030. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oowee said: So the 'draconian laws' you refer to are what might possibly happen, rather than a concern over what has happened. 17 hours ago, Rewulf said: The fact that economies are struggling will not drive reform, not the sort of reform you're thinking of anyway, sluggish growth or even recession will be directly blamed on slow integration of economies , and the lack of fiscal and tax union. It will of course demand more EU, not less, more 'encouragement' to adopt the euro, more encouragement to hand over your armed forces to central Brussels control, and more draconian law making, for 'your own good' 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Nobody is contesting that, it was all the fears about 5.2M immigrants from Turkey by 2030 that I was referring to, even a certain Mr Gove admitted last year that it was bad form for the Leave campaign to stoke fears around this. Personally I never saw a claim of 5.2m , if you reflect on the few thousand that were supposed to come over when Poland Romania and the other Eastern block countries joined, its not completely 'out there ' is it ? What are we talking 3 -4 million , at a conservative estimate, and a housing shortage we will not get on top of for decades, if ever ? Edited June 11, 2019 by Rewulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Fact. Combined, EU hunters are a larger minority than UK hunters alone. We as citizens have a fall back appeal mechanism against unreasonable government legislation through the EU courts. We have a larger more adequately funded lobbying base, EU wide, than we do on as and independent nation. Works well doesnt it 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 58 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Personally I never saw a claim of 5.2m , if you reflect on the few thousand that were supposed to come over when Poland Romania and the other Eastern block countries joined, its not completely 'out there ' is it ? What are we talking 3 -4 million , at a conservative estimate, and a housing shortage we will not get on top of for decades, if ever ? I don't know about a few thousand but what I have seen and my own GP verified is plenty more rushing to get registered with the GP surgery before it's too late - quite the opposite effect of what was intended I suspect. Anyway, having heard what some of the contenders for Tory Party leadership seem to be promising it appears one can reasonably conclude that they had the same personal maths tutor as Ms Abbott. Even my 16yo lad was aghast at what some of them were suggesting. Also left wondering how exactly BoJo is intending to reconcile the "easiest trade deal in history ever" with not coughing up the divorce bill. As one observer was quoted as saying yesterday - have they all taken collective leave of their senses. Kind of worrying how far some appear to be prepared to go to avoid a GE. I also wonder when the public will wise up to the pup they have been sold on Brexit, if what the likes of BoJo seem to be advocating comes to be then the reality of the "short term hit" will be something akin to how the body responds to exposure to extreme cold, it shuts down the supply to the extremities and effectively sacrifices them in order to keep the organs going. The analogy being that London and the Southeast are the organs and the rest of the country the limbs. This would drive a further divide regionally within the UK which will reveal this promise of "re-distribution of wealth / investment across the country through Brexit" as exactly what it is - more Brexiteer fantasy. Meanwhile London, the South and the rest of the reasonably well off will be enjoying tax breaks which will more than adequately pay for higher levels of cover for private healthcare as the Corporate American healthcare parasites fill their wallets with our NHS money. I can't think of a more apt use of the phrase Turkeys voting for Christmas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: So if they did manage to join, what would be stopping 5.2M coming from Turkey by 2030. Hypothetically nothing but it's a huge IF - given the current climate why would the EU want to bring Turkey on-board, how would it help any member state!? I reckon it's all a game to get Turkey to get their act together which makes sense given their geographic position - dangle a carrot at them and by the time they even get their house remotely in order the carrot will have turned into a ****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Works well doesnt it 😂 Your right. It works far better than the alternative. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 The EU have been doing their bit to try to influence the Tory leadership race, insisting that they will not be changing any of the terms of the Brexit deal for any new Prime Minister who comes in. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why the EU would rather have a new Prime Minister who comes in and accepts everything they say rather than demanding changes… Behind closed doors it’s a different story, The Sun revealed this morning that the EU is fact working on no deal contingency plans to use IT solutions to help goods cross the Irish border after Brexit. That wasn’t so hard after all, was it? EU officials are still insisting that IT solutions won’t be enough to manage all the border issues. This is missing the point, of course no deal is not the optimum scenario if the EU won’t compromise on a deal then they will be the ones facing the choice of whether to respond to no deal in a pragmatic way, or a disruptive way. Taking no deal off the table is ultimately what destroyed Theresa May’s negotiation attempts and killed her premiership, if her successor does the same they will suffer the same fate… UPDATE: It’s also good news for Sajid Javid who pledged to pay the EU “hundreds of millions” to help them develop tech solutions. He won’t need to bill the British taxpayer now the ever-generous EU are doing it for him… Source: Guido Fawkes AND REMOANERS & THE EU SAID IT COULD NOT BE DONE! 10 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I NEVER mentioned Turkey, or the EURO ! 9 hours ago, oowee said: Lost me on that. What are these draconian laws? The pace of change is accelerating there are many struggling to keep up. Well, it,s not the German, French or Italian economies that are accelerating......................de - celerating would be more accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Taken from the UK embassy page in 2016 Taken from the page today, things have slightly changed but only due to Turkey's poor human rights standards. We are still aspiring to help them join. Link https://www.gov.uk/world/turkey/news So hardly fake news or project fear, the UK was and still is trying to help Turkey join the EU. Well researched! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Nobody is contesting that, it was all the fears about 5.2M immigrants from Turkey by 2030 that I was referring to, even a certain Mr Gove admitted last year that it was bad form for the Leave campaign to stoke fears around this. See my reply to Rewulf 👍 6.2 immigrants might just have turned out to be a very conservative estimate ! Remember Tony Blair when explaining why he had not put a moratorium on free movement of peoples from Romania etc? He claimed that only approx 10,000 would turn up here............there are that many in Sheffield alone! Since 2007, according to The Guardian (stats they obtained from the ONS) 411,000 had arrived here by August 2018. 7 hours ago, sandspider said: Petition to investigate postal voting in Peterborough here: https://www.change.org/p/men-previously-convicted-on-postal-vote-fraud-employed-by-labour-during-this-by-election-investigate-the-postal-votes-that-were-counted-in-the-peterborough-by-election Mohammed Choudhary, Tariq Mahmood, and Maqboor Hussain have all been previously convicted and served sentences for defrauding postal votes. Tariq Mahmood has seemingly been allowed to canvas for votes in the June 2019 Peterborough By Election and has been pictured when results came through. Given past offences and a significant increase in postal votes giving labour the seat I demand that all postal votes are investigated fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I don't know about a few thousand but what I have seen and my own GP verified is plenty more rushing to get registered with the GP surgery before it's too late - quite the opposite effect of what was intended I suspect. Anyway, having heard what some of the contenders for Tory Party leadership seem to be promising it appears one can reasonably conclude that they had the same personal maths tutor as Ms Abbott. Even my 16yo lad was aghast at what some of them were suggesting. Also left wondering how exactly BoJo is intending to reconcile the "easiest trade deal in history ever" with not coughing up the divorce bill. As one observer was quoted as saying yesterday - have they all taken collective leave of their senses. Kind of worrying how far some appear to be prepared to go to avoid a GE. I also wonder when the public will wise up to the pup they have been sold on Brexit, if what the likes of BoJo seem to be advocating comes to be then the reality of the "short term hit" will be something akin to how the body responds to exposure to extreme cold, it shuts down the supply to the extremities and effectively sacrifices them in order to keep the organs going. The analogy being that London and the Southeast are the organs and the rest of the country the limbs. This would drive a further divide regionally within the UK which will reveal this promise of "re-distribution of wealth / investment across the country through Brexit" as exactly what it is - more Brexiteer fantasy. Meanwhile London, the South and the rest of the reasonably well off will be enjoying tax breaks which will more than adequately pay for higher levels of cover for private healthcare as the Corporate American healthcare parasites fill their wallets with our NHS money. I can't think of a more apt use of the phrase Turkeys voting for Christmas... Is that straight out of Momentums daily diatribe? Guido readers will be aware that Justice Secretary David Gauke is facing a Special General Meeting of his local association at the end of the month to hear a motion of no confidence in him as an MP. This morning he has written to local members urging them to support him, despite going against his manifesto commitment that no deal is better than a bad deal. Despite pushing for the softest Brexit possible, and helping to block the UK’s exit on 29th March – voting against exiting on WTO terms, Gauke claims he has not obstructed Brexit. He also hits out at the person who started the petition, alleging entryism. It’s going to be a messy fight… Source: Guido Fawkes And another Remoaner domino topples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 12 hours ago, pinfireman said: Is that straight out of Momentums daily diatribe? No, my own words, never read anything from Momentum and certainly not a Corbyn supporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 10/06/2019 at 13:44, oowee said: It all depends on wether you believe in a model of co operation with shared values, or one that competes for a share of dwindling resources. To my mind whilst the EU model has plenty of weaknesses it makes sense to increase cooperation in an increassingly global environment. Sadly, IMHO that goes against all modern business principle, the aim of which is to remove all competition and totally dominate? We have never, history tells us, had man if any shared values? On 10/06/2019 at 14:46, Dave-G said: I can still see Tony Blairs face as he pontificated that he'd like to see broadband in every household: I'd imagine he rues the day that .Gov gave us the means to research and share so much information with so many people so freely that us plebs have seen how successive ploticians have deceived us so badly. I reckon this is where the rise of so called Nationalism has been borne from. Were it not for 'tinternet' the government and media would be selling us out again without us even knowing what scummy effluent many of them are. In days of old they would have been hung drawn and quartered for their actions. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 It seems a Cross Party/Remainer attempt take control of parliamentary business using the excuse of preventing a "no deal" Brexit, which I understand was introduced by Labours Keir Starmer, has this afternoon, been defeated in the commons?.......What next from Remainers/Labour? A vote of no confidence in the next PM in an attempt to prevent Brexit and force a General Election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 "There will be other procedural mechanisms we can use," shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer said. "We are already looking at what those other opportunities will be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I don't think even Labour would be stupid enough to want a GE. They'd be wiped out. I don't think Boris wants a no deal Brexit himself, but taking it off the table was a stupid idea. Who would willingly give up their biggest bargaining chip? I fear we are going to get some watered down version of Brexit, but I believe we will get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: "There will be other procedural mechanisms we can use," shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer said. "We are already looking at what those other opportunities will be." Is not the door now open for the next PM to prorogue Parliament, if remainer MP's continue to try to prevent Brexit? And has not Labours attempt to force a general election by frustrating Brexit, now failed? Whats left for them now? A vote of no confidence in the government/new PM (which I believe is not binding?) which they probably can't win now as the DUP will side with the government, as no deal Brexit gets rid of the issue of the Irish backstop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 It may well be, something needs to be done to break the impasse, how we ended up here with a bunch of "we know better than you stupid people" running things in this country is going to be the subject of a lot of books and films in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I have just watched the full speach by Boris on his opening hustings appearance and must say, he was impressive. Yes, he obviously said he would prefer the idiots in Brussels to come to a sensible deal but would retain the right AND plan for a no deal and make this very obvious that is what would happen on the 31st October. The only questions the left wing press could ask was regarding his few philanderings with the opposite sex, which he very cleverly used and turned the tabels on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Whilst in the EU, Britain negotiated a deal. Admittedly it wasn't great but, given the 'red lines', it was the best on offer. Couldn't decide on it though... But it wasn't good enough so now the choice is no deal. But hang on, are we saying that we are never going to negotiate a deal with the EU? Of course not, it's the second biggest trading bloc in the world, not to mention our nearest neighbour. So wait...we think that it's better to crash outcome on WTO terms (us and Mauritius) and then renegotiate access? Sorry, only a cretin worstens his negotiating position and expects a better result. But apparently we must be led by cretins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Words of wisdom from the Middle East - then again - perhaps not. A cretin might be able to spell worsens - again - perhaps not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Retsdon said: ...we think that it's better to crash outcome on WTO terms (us and Mauritius) and then renegotiate access? Sorry, only a cretin worstens his negotiating position and expects a better result. But apparently we must be led by cretins Where's that come from? Boris has indicated he'd rather do a deal if its a decent one but If its a stitch up then we're better off leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Dave-G - agreed. It suits some people to paint a picture of doom and gloom. I question their motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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