Brexit - merged threads

[Newbie to this]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Why? 

Because leave won the democratic vote.

What remainers want doesn't matter.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Because leave won the democratic vote.

What remainers want doesn't matter.

🤣

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Exactly this ^^^ it's hard to think of a deal that works and will keep everyone or anyone happy. 

Then by default it should be a no deal, aka "hard brexit", as was made clear before the referendum, as was made clear by Theresa May when she took the PM job, remember her words "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal". And as was voted for by the people, i.e we need to leave the EU, which means leaving the rules that is part of being a member, this new deal does not do that, which means Brexit will not have been delivered. I completely understand you have a different view of what is good for the UK and you are of course untitled to that, but what is unquestionable is that if this deal goes through, the largest democratic vote in the history of our country will have been ignored, it is a bigger issue even than Brexit and if we allow this to happen it's a very slippery slope, I hope even a staunch remainer would back us leaving as it is our freedom that is now at stake.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

Then by default it should be a no deal, aka "hard brexit", as was made clear before the referendum, as was made clear by Theresa May when she took the PM job, remember her words "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal". And as was voted for by the people, i.e we need to leave the EU, which means leaving the rules that is part of being a member, this new deal does not do that, which means Brexit will not have been delivered. I completely understand you have a different view of what is good for the UK and you are of course untitled to that, but what is unquestionable is that if this deal goes through, the largest democratic vote in the history of our country will have been ignored, it is a bigger issue even than Brexit and if we allow this to happen it's a very slippery slope, I hope even a staunch remainer would back us leaving as it is our freedom that is now at stake.

Those phrases will haunt her for the rest of her career!

[oowee]

The vote was to remain or leave the EU and we are going to leave so the democratic vote is discharged at that point. We will not be members so will not be paying and will not be bound by the rules of the EU.  

Whatever deal is done or if there is no deal, will all just be at a point in time. With the proviso that we must leave.

As we go forward things will change with either the deal or no deal and we will surely arrive at some point where we are out of the EU but with a satisfactory trading arrangement and all the other stuff about borders and security. There was almost no chance of sorting all that stuff here and now or I guess for the next few years. Add in the inevitable change in politics within the EU and UK and the situation is far from static. 

[JRDS]

She stands there this morning telling us she has delivered Brexit when she has done exactly the opposite, the brass neck on her is quite unbelievable.  She has delivered the country to them on a plate, if this deal goes through we will never leave as the chances of them letting us will be less than zero.  We would also have to take any new rules dictated by them, that she should put us in this position is an act of Treason.  

 No doubt she will be signing us up to this next.

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/migration-compact

 

[redial]

I hope that I am wrong boys but the MP's appear to be going for another referendum. I don't think any type of deal offered, would get voted through the commons.

Even some of those MP's who's constituents voted leave are wavering.

Its a shame that they have the power to overturn the decision.

As Esther said "That's Life."

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by redial
Error

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

The vote was to remain or leave the EU and we are going to leave so the democratic vote is discharged at that point. We will not be members so will not be paying and will not be bound by the rules of the EU.  

Whatever deal is done or if there is no deal, will all just be at a point in time. With the proviso that we must leave.

As we go forward things will change with either the deal or no deal and we will surely arrive at some point where we are out of the EU but with a satisfactory trading arrangement and all the other stuff about borders and security. There was almost no chance of sorting all that stuff here and now or I guess for the next few years. Add in the inevitable change in politics within the EU and UK and the situation is far from static. 

They've done nothing of the sort, they've taken us out of the EU legally, while keeping all the things that being a member entailed which was what the country voted to leave, it's nothing more than a play on words to subvert democracy and no one sensible can argue anything otherwise, it'd be like trying to argue black is white.

[matone]

26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

They've done nothing of the sort, they've taken us out of the EU legally, while keeping all the things that being a member entailed which was what the country voted to leave, it's nothing more than a play on words to subvert democracy and no one sensible can argue anything otherwise, it'd be like trying to argue black is white.

Still say it`s all a pre conceived plan to have another vote as has always been the EU way...come up with an impossible deal,knowing it will throw Parliament into flux so that some sort of vote is needed ,all of this ignoring the democratic will of the people!!!

The EU way.

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, matone said:

Still say it`s all a pre conceived plan to have another vote as has always been the EU way...come up with an impossible deal,knowing it will throw Parliament into flux so that some sort of vote is needed ,all of this ignoring the democratic will of the people!!!

The EU way.

Spot on, I can understand people not wanting to leave and thinking it's bad for the country, but the votes taken place, to ignore it as they have is unforgivable and those that support it are supporting an erosion of our supposed democratic country.

[oowee]

What specifically do you not like? What are the things that are kept in the proposal? We will have left and not be paying membership. We will have some sort of trade deal. We will have control of our borders. We will be able to set up trade deals elsewhere. We wont be subject to ECJ except for citizens rights for eight years. Ok we are tied in for a couple of years to thrash out the details and no doubt some elements will change. I thought it fulfilled the basis of the vote. 

[yod dropper]

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

What specifically do you not like? What are the things that are kept in the proposal? We will have left and not be paying membership. We will have some sort of trade deal. We will have control of our borders. We will be able to set up trade deals elsewhere. We wont be subject to ECJ except for citizens rights for eight years. Ok we are tied in for a couple of years to thrash out the details and no doubt some elements will change. I thought it fulfilled the basis of the vote. 

1. The UK would remain a ‘rule taker’ over large areas of EU law
2. It would lock us in a Customs Union without the ability to leave
3. It would create internal borders within the UK, undermining the integrity of the Union
4. The European Court of Justice would remain in control of the agreement and large areas of EU law directly effective in the UK

Edited November 25, 2018 by yod dropper

[hambone]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

What specifically do you not like? What are the things that are kept in the proposal? We will have left and not be paying membership. We will have some sort of trade deal. We will have control of our borders. We will be able to set up trade deals elsewhere. We wont be subject to ECJ except for citizens rights for eight years. Ok we are tied in for a couple of years to thrash out the details and no doubt some elements will change. I thought it fulfilled the basis of the vote. 

As a remainer you would, but what about the ongoing payments to the EU?

[ordnance]

Quote

It would creates internal borders within the UK, undermining the integrity of the Union.

One thing the DUP said they would / could not support. If it is defeated because the DUP do not support it then the blame lies with the Dublin government for insisting on it, and Treas May for caving in on their demands. 

[Aled]

I'm asking a question here:

Given the choice of remaining in the EU or the deal that T May has put in place which would you prefer?

My Uncle Phillip doesn't care about the economic side, provided "them immigrants can't come here and take our jobs"....so he's not bothered about anything else.

Cheers

Aled

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Aled said:

I'm asking a question here:

Given the choice of remaining in the EU or the deal that T May has put in place which would you prefer?

My Uncle Phillip doesn't care about the economic side, provided "them immigrants can't come here and take our jobs"....so he's not bothered about anything else.

Cheers

Aled

We haven't only got 2 choices, please don't believe the hype of anyone who peddles this.

The deal is that bad , the EU can't wait to get it signed and ratified.

That should tell you everything you need to know.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

We haven't only got 2 choices, please don't believe the hype of anyone who peddles this.

The deal is that bad , the EU can't wait to get it signed and ratified.

That should tell you everything you need to know.

I really think too many people have become numb to it all that they are not seeing it clearly!

[Danger-Mouse]

He nailed it!

 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Aled said:

I'm asking a question here:

Given the choice of remaining in the EU or the deal that T May has put in place which would you prefer?

My Uncle Phillip doesn't care about the economic side, provided "them immigrants can't come here and take our jobs"....so he's not bothered about anything else.

Cheers

Aled

Neither, I want to leave, as was voted for, which means either 1 a free trade deal, (like every other country in the world does)

Or 2 No deal, hard brexit (we'll trade with the rest of the world) I guarantee the EU would come running and if they didn't, more fool them.

[Danger-Mouse]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

Neither, I want to leave, as was voted for, which means either 1 a free trade deal, (like every other country in the world does)

Or 2 No deal, hard brexit (we'll trade with the rest of the world) I guarantee the EU would come running and if they didn't, more fool them.

This!

[silver pigeon69]

Anyone just seen the BBC news explaining the "Deal"??

Apparently its a load of tosh! The only thing that seems to have been agreed is that we will leave and then negotiate the "finer" points!

Juncker interviewed and basically said that NI will stay in the EU.

We have left the Fishing and Agriculture "clubs" but do not have control of our waters.

France will not agree to anything unless their fishermen have access to our waters.

The only thing that has been agreed is that we will leave on said date and will stop paying them fees apart from the £39B divorce payment. The rest still has to be "negotiated"

NO DEAL IS THE BEST DEAL!

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Neither, I want to leave, as was voted for, which means either 1 a free trade deal, (like every other country in the world does)

Or 2 No deal, hard brexit (we'll trade with the rest of the world) I guarantee the EU would come running and if they didn't, more fool them.

The deal is on the way to a free trade deal. It will take time to sort out what it all means. We want to trade wit the the rest of the world 👍post Brexit and the EU will want to make sure that goods we trade under that free trade deal are clearly defined by origin. Fair for both. 

Hard Brexit just means that we fall out  of all existing agreements. We will still have to put things (agreements) in place by the deadline so that we can carry on as we are. Under WTO we will have to go through proofs of origin for all goods including trade to the EU the cost will be huge. 

[ordnance]

Quote

Hard Brexit just means that we fall out  of all existing agreements. We will still have to put things (agreements) in place by the deadline so that we can carry on as we are. Under WTO we will have to go through proofs of origin for all goods including trade to the EU the cost will be huge. 

Would that not work both ways, the cost of the EU importing UK goods. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by ordnance

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Would that not work both ways, the cost of the EU importing UK goods. 

Yes it will. 

 

[12gauge82]

I think a sensible "Canada" style deal would emerge fairly quickly under threat of a "hard" brexit, if it didn't, the EU simply couldn't hurt us without hurting themselves, probably Spot more in the long run.