ordnance Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Another 'sobering' read about the Irish border and WTO trading. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 I don't see a problem for N/I or the UK it would be a big problem for Dublin, and its their tactics that could lead to a no deal. Quote The UK, the EU and the Irish Government insist they have no intention of putting up a hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland, but a no deal Brexit would create a vacuum of uncertainty around how different trading rules would be policed along a frontier between two different economic blocs. This could result in tariff of more than 35 per cent on Irish dairy products exported into the UK. “There is nothing in WTO rules that forces anyone to put up border posts,” said WTO spokesman Keith Rockwell on a visit to Dublin last week. Edited November 28, 2018 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 2 hours ago, oowee said: That treasury should be disbanded along with the BoE and anyone else we don't want to hear from. I would like to hear the truth,not the propangnda,, But it would be a start,especially get rid of Carney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, besty57 said: I would like to hear the truth,not the propangnda,, But it would be a start,especially get rid of Carney. How would you recognise it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, oowee said: 1 hour ago, besty57 said: I would like to hear the truth,not the propangnda,, But it would be a start,especially get rid of Carney. 7 minutes ago, oowee said: How would you recognise it? The same goes for you - how would you recognize it - but then you believed him the last time about immediate disaster - he was wrong then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: The same goes for you - how would you recognize it - but then you believed him the last time about immediate disaster - he was wrong then. ? How would you recognise the truth not propaganda? Because it's a prediction based on some measure of rational thought as to what is likely. A process that can be reasoned and evidenced rather than simply stated. Immediate disaster? I don't recognise that. Where did you get that from? Remember we have not left yet. I am open to accept argument either way but when the only thing on offer is slagging off the other point of view because it differs from another its not helping anyone. Edited November 28, 2018 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, oowee said: Immediate disaster? I don't recognise that. Where did you get that from? Remember we have not left yet. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36273448 I dare say I could find more if I looked. But I prefer the post vote articles https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-carney-eats-humble-pie-on-brexit/ And then there is his chief economist. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors " The bank has come under intense criticism for predicting a dramatic slowdown in the UK’s fortunes in the event of a vote for Brexit only for the economy to bounce back strongly and remain one of the best performing in the developed world. " oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 Who knows what's going to happen in the next 15 years,I've heard it all before . No Euro we've had it. Vote leave we've had it .etc etc,none of it has come true, Statistics and lies,you can say what you like .even if the propangnda is true as far as I'm concerned its still worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 Cameron's video says it all, but Remainers choose not to listen to what he said. The obvious answer is that they do not comprehend democracy. All the prophets of doom have an agenda, in which truth plays no part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, Danger-Mouse said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36273448 I dare say I could find more if I looked. But I prefer the post vote articles https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-carney-eats-humble-pie-on-brexit/ And then there is his chief economist. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors " The bank has come under intense criticism for predicting a dramatic slowdown in the UK’s fortunes in the event of a vote for Brexit only for the economy to bounce back strongly and remain one of the best performing in the developed world. " oops. Read those. I don't see immediate disaster. I see errors in prediction models. I see differences in prediction from outcome but i don't see any predictions of immediate disaster. For me we have a series of negative predictions and forecasts based on evidence for the impact of leave. Much of which has not happened. I don't see any evidenced predictions on the positive impact of leave which are in all likelihood, equally inaccurate but at least based on some reasoned argument. We are leaving. So now we must look for the evidenced and reasoned upside in the leave scenario. Where is it? What is the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ordnance said: I don't see a problem for N/I or the UK it would be a big problem for Dublin, and its their tactics that could lead to a no deal. week. I totally agree, even an Irish paper is saying that it would be Ireland and EU worse off and the UK could become a far more competitive market. Edited November 28, 2018 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, oowee said: What is the plan? I have no idea. However if someone who had actually wanted to and believed in leaving the EU rather than the lying cow we have in now had negotiated then we may have actually had a plan that would see us leaving the EU with a clear future. Instead May has managed to do what no one else could do and unite both sides in hatred of the wishy-washy soft Brexit plan that pleases almost no-one and if passed would see us becoming a vassal state of the EU. Fortunately it seems(fingers crossed) that enough of our elected representatives won't back it. In that case I guess it means no deal and we revert to WTO terms when we leave. Once that happens maybe then we can negotiate again from a position of strength. For me, the Canada++ deal should have been seriously considered. That would seem to have covered most, if not all of the bases that leave voters believed they would get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, oowee said: I don't see any evidenced predictions on the positive impact of leave which are in all likelihood, equally inaccurate but at least based on some reasoned argument. Look up Liam Halligan or Patrick Minford on YT. They are both economists who predict a bright future after leaving the EU. If you're happy enough with the predictions of the BoE economists, and willing to allow for slight errors in their models then surely the same applies for Minford et al? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted November 28, 2018 Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 29 minutes ago, Danger-Mouse said: Look up Liam Halligan or Patrick Minford on YT. They are both economists who predict a bright future after leaving the EU. If you're happy enough with the predictions of the BoE economists, and willing to allow for slight errors in their models then surely the same applies for Minford et al? Why would any remainer believe them, after all people who voted to leave or think we can pull It off are uneducated, ive handed my degree back with this as the reason. Sorry but I voted to leave, ive not lost all my education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2017/02/brexit-on-becoming-third-country.html?m=1 The reality of a no deal Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 The other reality of a no deal Brexit. https://brexitcentral.com/stand-firm-face-onslaught-project-fear-propaganda/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 16 hours ago, sportsbob said: About 1 minute into the video he is quite explicit as to what the vote will be for. Beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: The other reality of a no deal Brexit. https://brexitcentral.com/stand-firm-face-onslaught-project-fear-propaganda/ Good piece, and a decent man. The best prime minister we never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Good piece, and a decent man. The best prime minister we never had. It’s OK to quote “STAND FIRM” when you have a net worth of over 3M USD Edited November 29, 2018 by blackbird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, blackbird said: It’s OK to quote “STAND FIRM” when you have a net worth of over 3M USD I don’t care how much money he has, there are more truths in what he has said than anything that has come out of project fear, Version 1 or 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: I don’t care how much money he has, there are more truths in what he has said than anything that has come out of project fear, Version 1 or 2! +1 And when it comes to net worth, what does that mean ? Would you prefer to listen to Fred Bloggs down the road, whos net worth is £ 200 and an 02 reg Ford Mondeo ? Maybe BJ, whos worth less than DD , despite being born into wealth ? David Davis came from NOTHING , and worked his way up on his own wits, grit and intelligence to be who , and worth , what he is today. He is not a career politician, but one of those rare people who went into it to make a difference . Morally , and integrity wise , he stands head and shoulders above most of the people in Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 14 hours ago, Danger-Mouse said: I have no idea. However if someone who had actually wanted to and believed in leaving the EU rather than the lying cow we have in now had negotiated then we may have actually had a plan that would see us leaving the EU with a clear future. Instead May has managed to do what no one else could do and unite both sides in hatred of the wishy-washy soft Brexit plan that pleases almost no-one and if passed would see us becoming a vassal state of the EU. Fortunately it seems(fingers crossed) that enough of our elected representatives won't back it. In that case I guess it means no deal and we revert to WTO terms when we leave. Once that happens maybe then we can negotiate again from a position of strength. For me, the Canada++ deal should have been seriously considered. That would seem to have covered most, if not all of the bases that leave voters believed they would get. Mark my words, despite May saying so, if her deal gets voted down, we still won't get a hard brexit, they'll find another way to keep us in, the remoaners in power will never let us truly leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misser Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 we will never leave...the eu will not permit it, where else they going to find someone else to swell the coffers of such a sinking ship as the eu......smoke and mirrors to the pretence that we have left...but they still want that 39 billion...money is money...plus the fact we haven't the balls to walk away...no deal is better than a bad deal...yeah right...now the 'bad' deal has materialised they are attempting to 'sell' it too us...the economy will plunge if we miraculously left with no deal?...and then Corbyn gets power to save us all...god help us....there again even on a good day god couldn't sort a ****storm such as that.....atb...misser oh and PS..not even mentioned the backtracking that will give our fishing away as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Seems there was plans for the UK to be able to terminate the backstop, but May was convinced not to put it in as the EU may not go for it!! http://nuk-tnl-deck-email.s3.amazonaws.com/156/03bff91714bd96b57066016531994c36.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Surely nobody elected as an MP by UK voters, and in so doing, charged with representing the interests of the UK and its people, could vote for Mays "surrender deal"? I suspect a resounding no vote by MP's is what will happen, because Mays carp deal was designed to do just that!......then "project fear mark 2" will be used to soften the public up, so they will be too frightened to accept a "no deal" brexit........as an alternative the politicians from all party's will then agree to allow the people to have another vote, with three choices 1) accept Mays deal. 2) leave with no deal. 3) stay in the EU. If they include 3) on the ballot paper, Westminster (MP's) will have conspired to get the public to overturn the democratic result of the people's Brexit referendum......then they could walk away saying "the people, not us have spoken" and "we will honour the peoples decision"...."we will stay in the EU".......game set and match for the remainers! This is what I suspect, they wanted and have been working for, all along....to overturn Brexit! But had difficulty deciding how to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 38 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Seems there was plans for the UK to be able to terminate the backstop, but May was convinced not to put it in as the EU may not go for it!! http://nuk-tnl-deck-email.s3.amazonaws.com/156/03bff91714bd96b57066016531994c36.html Why do you think the UK government would make such a choice knowing they would loose ten votes as a result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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