Independence for Scotland

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

Some yes, 45 commando are based at Arbroath and the young lads thought it was a good idea to go out and pick fights with them 😮

 

Back in the early 80s I worked on a semi-sub drilling rig in a crew that had a large contingent from Arbroath. Hmmn. ..probably not the most cosmopolitan, outgoing folk on the planet.

[Perazzishot]

The sort of thing you are dealing with up here with the SNP Supporting independence lovers.

How do we fund setting up a whole armed forces in Scotland? Is the question I asked.

The answer we don't need them the only attack on Scotland in 50 years was some nutter at Glasgow airport who got his coupon smashed as soon as he got out the car!!!

🙄🤔

[Cawdor118]

5 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

The sort of thing you are dealing with up here with the SNP Supporting independence lovers.

How do we fund setting up a whole armed forces in Scotland? Is the question I asked.

The answer we don't need them the only attack on Scotland in 50 years was some nutter at Glasgow airport who got his coupon smashed as soon as he got out the car!!!

🙄🤔

• To be fair to the dafties... a British Army of 50,000 John Smeatons booting Putin in the stones would be terrifying. 😂

[button]

The arguments that the SNP use for independence are so weak you wonder how anyone could believe in it

1) They want to stay in the EU because of the trade opportunity, yet while been in the EU 80% trade is still with the rest of the UK, why has this not been exploited before?

2) They built a whole plan on future oil revenues, where are they now?

3) Scotland was taken out of the EU against it's will? The question was never about Scotland, it was the UK!

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

The Nationalists can only get MP’s if the Scottish electorate vote em in! I don’t understand how, if the Scottish electorate don’t want independence....why do they keep voting the Nationalists in? 🤔

Because the voting tends to be tactical.

 

In Scottish elections it is SNP 63 seats, Con 31, Lab 24, Greens 6, Libdems 5

In UK elections SNP 48, Con 6, Lab 1, Libdems 1

In EU Elections SNP 3, Con 1, Brexit 1, Libdems 1

 

In local MSP election especially we vote for policies, but in UK election we vote for representation as in Scotland the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that it was geting lost in the larger parties as irrellevant over the needs on the South, especially London.

[Perazzishot]

Sturgeon is working on a 45% of the electorate yesterday to demand Indyref2 where she asked for her supporters to send a clear message to Westminster that Scotland deserves the right to a 2nd referendum. The people of Scotland have just done that 55% of the electorate voted to remain was part of the UK the same as last time.

54% of the UK electorate voted for 2 Brexit parties!

Almost the same as the Leave vote, oh look a common theme has developed.

But the Brexit party got 25.8% of the vote, just behind the Tories at 28.5%, suggesting the Conservative landslide would have been even greater had Farage given Boris Johnson a clear run in all seats.

[Bazooka Joe]

Quote

Scotland did vote remain not leave,

 

Quote

3) Scotland was taken out of the EU against it's will? The question was never about Scotland, it was the UK!

 

You hear this from wee Crankie all the time.

Scotland voted as part of the UNION, period, not as a nation.

Second quote above highlights it.

[Perazzishot]

Let this sink in if Scotland had voted to be Independent in 2014, Scotland would have been ruled by a man facing after being charged with 13 sexual assaults including attempted rape. Who also met with Nichola Sturgeon face to face after being interviewed and charged.

Honesty and Integrity...........let me think about that whether they are the best party in Scotland!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

She will spout on how undemocratic Boris will be continually refusing her call for independence.

 

When a referendum is allowed next time, hopefully they will include England in the referendum and that should guarantee she gets her way!

[button]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

She will spout on how undemocratic Boris will be continually refusing her call for independence.

 

When a referendum is allowed next time, hopefully they will include England in the referendum and that should guarantee she gets her way!

Believe me listening to their repetitive garbage just gets boring 

She is splitting the country and spreading hatred, the only impressive thing about the SNP is their ability of not taking responsibility for their own failings and shortcomings and blaming Westminter!

[panoma1]

10 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Because the voting tends to be tactical.

 

In Scottish elections it is SNP 63 seats, Con 31, Lab 24, Greens 6, Libdems 5

In UK elections SNP 48, Con 6, Lab 1, Libdems 1

In EU Elections SNP 3, Con 1, Brexit 1, Libdems 1

 

In local MSP election especially we vote for policies, but in UK election we vote for representation as in Scotland the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that it was geting lost in the larger parties as irrellevant over the needs on the South, especially London.

Everywhere in the UK (Including the Midlands, where I live) feels the needs of London take precedent over the needs of the rest of the country!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

She will spout on how undemocratic Boris will be continually refusing her call for independence.

 

When a referendum is allowed next time, hopefully they will include England in the referendum and that should guarantee she gets her way!

 

1 hour ago, button said:

Believe me listening to their repetitive garbage just gets boring 

She is splitting the country and spreading hatred, the only impressive thing about the SNP is their ability of not taking responsibility for their own failings and shortcomings and blaming Westminter!

And that will soon come to an end, but by then Scotland will be "FREE" and someone will have to pick up the pieces!

[islandgun]

The womans obsessed. to the exclusion of everything else,  I think she will get another vote and be defeated again. [unless brexit proves to be a disaster] .  The question is, will she try for another referendum before or after brexit..........personally im sick to death of politicians and votes and i dont think i'm alone

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, islandgun said:

The womans obsessed. to the exclusion of everything else,  I think she will get another vote and be defeated again. [unless brexit proves to be a disaster] .  The question is, will she try for another referendum before or after brexit..........personally im sick to death of politicians and votes and i dont think i'm alone

She is ALREADY trying!

[billytheghillie]

Just now, islandgun said:

The womans obsessed. to the exclusion of everything else,  I think she will get another vote and be defeated again. [unless brexit proves to be a disaster] .  The question is, will she try for another referendum before or after brexit..........personally im sick to death of politicians and votes and i dont think i'm alone

+1 

[grrclark]

Perhaps a controversial statement for some of the southern contributors on this thread I believe Scotland could do perfectly well if it seceded from the UK, however it would require a significant period of adjustment and a fundamental change to our current economic model.  This adjustment would be painful for a generation or two.

Scotland is much like the rest of the UK in that it is blessed with some fantastic talent and capabilities and necessity would drive change and innovation.  We are not just about whisky and oil, Scotland is at the forefront of a huge amount of innovation in ultra high tech, pharmacology, life sciences, creative digital, engineering, agri-tech, software development, renewables and financial services.  What we don't have enough of is self sustaining manufacture and we have far too much of an imbalance towards public sector employment.

The major barrier to a successful independent Scotland just now is the national narrative where people talk of fairness, rights and equalities which when you really examine what that noble language means, in this context, is a sense of entitlement by far too many.  That language has been used by the SNP to bring who were the traditional Labour voters on board and increase vote share, but the language is wrong if genuinely wanting the country to secede and succeed.  It would need to be language of entrepreneurialism, of hard work and endeavour, shorter term concessions for longer term gains, etc, but much like a lot of the Brexit language it is short term gain and getting something for nothing, all of which is bogus in both cases.

Brexit will also take a period of adjustment for the UK and that is also going to be painful for many people for a while, but just like Scotland I have a huge amount of faith in our ability as a nation (albeit little faith in much of our current political leaders) to capitalise on the opportunities that will present and again necessity will drive innovation and invention.

Scotland would do perfectly well, in time, but would have to once again learn to be hungry and lean, embrace free market capitalism and not apologise for it, to be bold and not promote policy of appeasement, but of ambition and competitiveness.  Exactly like Great Britain is going to have to do and do it quickly.

[wymberley]

21 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Perhaps a controversial statement for some of the southern contributors on this thread I believe Scotland could do perfectly well if it seceded from the UK, however it would require a significant period of adjustment and a fundamental change to our current economic model.  This adjustment would be painful for a generation or two.

Scotland is much like the rest of the UK in that it is blessed with some fantastic talent and capabilities and necessity would drive change and innovation.  We are not just about whisky and oil, Scotland is at the forefront of a huge amount of innovation in ultra high tech, pharmacology, life sciences, creative digital, engineering, agri-tech, software development, renewables and financial services.  What we don't have enough of is self sustaining manufacture and we have far too much of an imbalance towards public sector employment.

The major barrier to a successful independent Scotland just now is the national narrative where people talk of fairness, rights and equalities which when you really examine what that noble language means, in this context, is a sense of entitlement by far too many.  That language has been used by the SNP to bring who were the traditional Labour voters on board and increase vote share, but the language is wrong if genuinely wanting the country to secede and succeed.  It would need to be language of entrepreneurialism, of hard work and endeavour, shorter term concessions for longer term gains, etc, but much like a lot of the Brexit language it is short term gain and getting something for nothing, all of which is bogus in both cases.

Brexit will also take a period of adjustment for the UK and that is also going to be painful for many people for a while, but just like Scotland I have a huge amount of faith in our ability as a nation (albeit little faith in much of our current political leaders) to capitalise on the opportunities that will present and again necessity will drive innovation and invention.

Scotland would do perfectly well, in time, but would have to once again learn to be hungry and lean, embrace free market capitalism and not apologise for it, to be bold and not promote policy of appeasement, but of ambition and competitiveness.  Exactly like Great Britain is going to have to do and do it quickly.

A truly superb post.

lf an independent Scotland was to fail it would be for the same reason that the UK and Brexit would. Never mind a "generation or two" - 25 to 50 years - if currently people haven't got what they want in 25 to 50 minutes they're going to throw a wobbly.

[islandgun]

grrclark

as wymberly said a superb post. you've got my jaded vote..

[mel b3]

49 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Perhaps a controversial statement for some of the southern contributors on this thread I believe Scotland could do perfectly well if it seceded from the UK, however it would require a significant period of adjustment and a fundamental change to our current economic model.  This adjustment would be painful for a generation or two.

Scotland is much like the rest of the UK in that it is blessed with some fantastic talent and capabilities and necessity would drive change and innovation.  We are not just about whisky and oil, Scotland is at the forefront of a huge amount of innovation in ultra high tech, pharmacology, life sciences, creative digital, engineering, agri-tech, software development, renewables and financial services.  What we don't have enough of is self sustaining manufacture and we have far too much of an imbalance towards public sector employment.

The major barrier to a successful independent Scotland just now is the national narrative where people talk of fairness, rights and equalities which when you really examine what that noble language means, in this context, is a sense of entitlement by far too many.  That language has been used by the SNP to bring who were the traditional Labour voters on board and increase vote share, but the language is wrong if genuinely wanting the country to secede and succeed.  It would need to be language of entrepreneurialism, of hard work and endeavour, shorter term concessions for longer term gains, etc, but much like a lot of the Brexit language it is short term gain and getting something for nothing, all of which is bogus in both cases.

Brexit will also take a period of adjustment for the UK and that is also going to be painful for many people for a while, but just like Scotland I have a huge amount of faith in our ability as a nation (albeit little faith in much of our current political leaders) to capitalise on the opportunities that will present and again necessity will drive innovation and invention.

Scotland would do perfectly well, in time, but would have to once again learn to be hungry and lean, embrace free market capitalism and not apologise for it, to be bold and not promote policy of appeasement, but of ambition and competitiveness.  Exactly like Great Britain is going to have to do and do it quickly.

The voice of intelligent reasoning as always Graham 👍.

[Muddy Funker]

I hope as a sassenach that's made the move up here I'm not going to be burned at the stake if Scotland gain independence 😂

I rather love it here. 

[grrclark]

Thanks for the kind comments gents.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

Perhaps a controversial statement for some of the southern contributors on this thread I believe Scotland could do perfectly well if it seceded from the UK, however it would require a significant period of adjustment and a fundamental change to our current economic model.  This adjustment would be painful for a generation or two.

Scotland is much like the rest of the UK in that it is blessed with some fantastic talent and capabilities and necessity would drive change and innovation.  We are not just about whisky and oil, Scotland is at the forefront of a huge amount of innovation in ultra high tech, pharmacology, life sciences, creative digital, engineering, agri-tech, software development, renewables and financial services.  What we don't have enough of is self sustaining manufacture and we have far too much of an imbalance towards public sector employment.

The major barrier to a successful independent Scotland just now is the national narrative where people talk of fairness, rights and equalities which when you really examine what that noble language means, in this context, is a sense of entitlement by far too many.  That language has been used by the SNP to bring who were the traditional Labour voters on board and increase vote share, but the language is wrong if genuinely wanting the country to secede and succeed.  It would need to be language of entrepreneurialism, of hard work and endeavour, shorter term concessions for longer term gains, etc, but much like a lot of the Brexit language it is short term gain and getting something for nothing, all of which is bogus in both cases.

Brexit will also take a period of adjustment for the UK and that is also going to be painful for many people for a while, but just like Scotland I have a huge amount of faith in our ability as a nation (albeit little faith in much of our current political leaders) to capitalise on the opportunities that will present and again necessity will drive innovation and invention.

Scotland would do perfectly well, in time, but would have to once again learn to be hungry and lean, embrace free market capitalism and not apologise for it, to be bold and not promote policy of appeasement, but of ambition and competitiveness.  Exactly like Great Britain is going to have to do and do it quickly.

I am with this but add the caveat of geography and integration with the uk systems. With brexit uncertainty its not clear if an independent scotland would have an open border with the uk. Add the question of currency. Adopting sterling might on the face of it work but the uk could well devalue the currency and Scotland by default end up breaking EU rules. The uk position is precarious enough? 

If the UK leaving the EU is an act of faith, Scotland opting for independence at the same time is an act of ... i dont have the words. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

I am with this but add the caveat of geography and integration with the uk systems. With brexit uncertainty its not clear if an independent scotland would have an open border with the uk. Add the question of currency. Adopting sterling might on the face of it work but the uk could well devalue the currency and Scotland by default end up breaking EU rules. The uk position is precarious enough? 

If the UK leaving the EU is an act of faith, Scotland opting for independence at the same time is an act of ... i dont have the words. 

No if about it now!

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

No if about it now!

I hope there is more to it than Faith but if you insist. 

[KB1]

I find all this talk of division quite depressing😢  I'm "English" by birth, but Scotland has played a much bigger part in my life than our Capital and surrounding areas have……..

Working together works quite well if there is a will to do so.