12gauge82 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 hour ago, AVB said: You are possibly right that it proves to be ‘no worse’ than a bad winter. However in the meantime the irrational fear of it has trashed the economy for the next 20 years. The virus highly likely won’t kill you. The poverty that will follow will. I'm not sure this view is right, (imo of course), this virus is killing people, there's no doubt about that and I don't believe it right to prioritize money over lives, if it gets bad enough, reprint money and redistribute wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm not sure this view is right, (imo of course), this virus is killing people, there's no doubt about that and I don't believe it right to prioritize money over lives, if it gets bad enough, reprint money and redistribute wealth. You always have to balance money vs lives. Close the economy down to save one person - of course not, keep it open and risk 50 million - of course not. The question is where do you draw the line. As for redistributing wealth what does that actually mean? Why should somebody take my ‘wealth’ that I have worked hard for? Then people say “oh I only meant really rich people” or “not people like you”. What do you mean by it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, AVB said: You always have to balance money vs lives. Close the economy down to save one person - of course not, keep it open and risk 50 million - of course not. The question is where do you draw the line. As for redistributing wealth what does that actually mean? Why should somebody take my ‘wealth’ that I have worked hard for? Then people say “oh I only meant really rich people” or “not people like you”. What do you mean by it? "Why should you loose?" I don't know your personal circumstances, so don't know if you'd loose or gain, but why should the working man loose again and again? I'm talking of a rebalancing of the books, if its a choice between that and another huge financial crash, why should it only be the working masses who suffer like the last time, public money to prop up the banks, maybe it's time the mega rich stick their hand in their pocket for once? If you want to see what I mean, watch the documentary on the Panama papers, they should add that to the national curriculum, so that the masses in this country understand the daylight robbery that occurs everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 hours ago, SpringDon said: Hindsight may reveal all this to be within normal noise. Don't think that'll be the case unfortunately. The chart below is for the the Netherlands. I imagine a lot of countries' charts would look the same right now. Incidentally, 2018 was apparently a very bad flu year in Holland. Anyway, no doubt when it's all over the stats will be there to settle any disputes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, Retsdon said: <snip> . Anyway, no doubt when it's all over the stats will be there to settle any disputes.... As long as there statisticians left. And don’t forget, spikes don’t matter it’s the area under the curve that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 We seem to be ignoring how this is beginning to overwhelm the NHS - and this is not a lie as we all know of friends and relatives who are battling this awful disease. I realise numbers dead may come out close to a normal winter flu but the debilitating nature of this variation is vastly worse than anything we have seen before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted April 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) Truth or lie...... For most there will be mild symptoms.....truth no doubt... For the others may I paint some sort of a picture,,, Your not feeling the best so you stick it out for a few days then you call the docs who advise you to self isolate,,,all good then your breathing gets worse another call and this time your told to go to hospital,, Upon arrival your checked over with great care and sympathy from overworked staff,then off to xray to see the extent,,this revels that its settled in your lungs.... Now you and your family will be told,that as your 65 or over and have some health issues your not suitable for ventilation if needed...... While shocking to be told this you still hope for the best,,so your treatment from here will be paracetamol drip and oxygen in the hope your body will fight for long enough to recover which sadly for many will not be the case without further intervention which as you dont tick the box your not going to receive,, After few days and when you reach maximum saturation your body will lose its fight and this help will be removed and you will move to palliative care when you will be looked after with undoubted care and comfort until your fight is over...... This will take place over a few days when your relatives will be unable to see you to offer their comfort knowing what is approaching and feeling totally useless in what's going on.... This is unfortunately a truth many familys will experience over the next few month's The nhs staff will never get enough praise for there handling of the situation but I do fear for their wellbeing when this is over,many will suffer trauma anxiety and metal issues when in the cold light of day they realize the impact of some of the decisions they had to take and I'm in no way having a go at them quite the opposite in fact...... Take care out there this is the ultimate silent killer that your just never know where it will strike from..... Edited April 5, 2020 by millrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 Who cares if they are lying and all the conspiracy theories are true? Nothing you or I can do about it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 04/04/2020 at 08:20, norfolk dumpling said: We seem to be ignoring how this is beginning to overwhelm the NHS - and this is not a lie as we all know of friends and relatives who are battling this awful disease. I realise numbers dead may come out close to a normal winter flu but the debilitating nature of this variation is vastly worse than anything we have seen before. Is it overwhelming the NHS? The vast majority of hospitals are operating within capacity at the moment (very few have declared emergencies which happens frequently during the winter anyway). I am not saying they won’t be overwhelmed at some point but they are not at the moment. The extra capacity of the new hospital in London has not been needed yet for that very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted April 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 Sadly not all affected live in london,,,many regional hospitals and not as well equipped or looked after(london first) and certainly over here we are near full..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgyrog Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic1281 Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 2 hours ago, millrace said: Truth or lie...... For most there will be mild symptoms.....truth no doubt... For the others may I paint some sort of a picture,,, Your not feeling the best so you stick it out for a few days then you call the docs who advise you to self isolate,,,all good then your breathing gets worse another call and this time your told to go to hospital,, Upon arrival your checked over with great care and sympathy from overworked staff,then off to xray to see the extent,,this revels that its settled in your lungs.... Now you and your family will be told,that as your 65 or over and have some health issues your not suitable for ventilation if needed...... While shocking to be told this you still hope for the best,,so your treatment from here will be paracetamol drip and oxygen in the hope your body will fight for long enough to recover which sadly for many will not be the case without further intervention which as you dont tick the box your not going to receive,, After few days and when you reach maximum saturation your body will lose its fight and this help will be removed and you will move to palliative care when you will be looked after with undoubted care and comfort until your fight is over...... This will take place over a few days when your relatives will be unable to see you to offer their comfort knowing what is approaching and feeling totally useless in what's going on.... This is unfortunately a truth many familys will experience over the next few month's The nhs staff will never get enough praise for there handling of the situation but I do fear for their wellbeing when this is over,many will suffer trauma anxiety and metal issues when in the cold light of day they realize the impact of some of the decisions they had to take and I'm in no way having a go at them quite the opposite in fact...... Take care out there this is the ultimate silent killer that your just never know where it will strike from..... A very sensible and real post. We are not overwhelmed with covid pts yet, however, we have stopped all operations, including cancer. We have discharged patients into care systems that are unlikely to cope long term so we’re just pushing the tidal wave back. This tsunami will hit, and hit hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 2 hours ago, ClemFandango said: Who cares if they are lying and all the conspiracy theories are true? Nothing you or I can do about it anyway. It's validation thing. People are missing something in themselves and feel big and better for being "smart" enough to have "figured it out". I always jokingly called people like that the "Knowerati", as they were part of the elite that had figured out, by reading any old **** from Google, what the Illuminati were up to. Advice on preparing and staying safe at the moment is welcome, but I just don't know what to do with the stuff people send me pointing out how we're being scammed. How does knowing the lizard people are sending supplies to the moon change the fact that I don't want to catch it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spoon said: It's validation thing. People are missing something in themselves and feel big and better for being "smart" enough to have "figured it out". I always jokingly called people like that the "Knowerati", as they were part of the elite that had figured out, by reading any old **** from Google, what the Illuminati were up to. Advice on preparing and staying safe at the moment is welcome, but I just don't know what to do with the stuff people send me pointing out how we're being scammed. How does knowing the lizard people are sending supplies to the moon change the fact that I don't want to catch it? You forgot to mention that to many people knowledge is power, they think they know more than you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 3 hours ago, ClemFandango said: Who cares if they are lying and all the conspiracy theories are true? Nothing you or I can do about it anyway. everyone should care when someone is lying to you they are taking you for a FOOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 3 hours ago, millrace said: Truth or lie...... For most there will be mild symptoms.....truth no doubt... For the others may I paint some sort of a picture,,, Your not feeling the best so you stick it out for a few days then you call the docs who advise you to self isolate,,,all good then your breathing gets worse another call and this time your told to go to hospital,, Upon arrival your checked over with great care and sympathy from overworked staff,then off to xray to see the extent,,this revels that its settled in your lungs.... Now you and your family will be told,that as your 65 or over and have some health issues your not suitable for ventilation if needed...... While shocking to be told this you still hope for the best,,so your treatment from here will be paracetamol drip and oxygen in the hope your body will fight for long enough to recover which sadly for many will not be the case without further intervention which as you dont tick the box your not going to receive,, After few days and when you reach maximum saturation your body will lose its fight and this help will be removed and you will move to palliative care when you will be looked after with undoubted care and comfort until your fight is over...... This will take place over a few days when your relatives will be unable to see you to offer their comfort knowing what is approaching and feeling totally useless in what's going on.... This is unfortunately a truth many familys will experience over the next few month's The nhs staff will never get enough praise for there handling of the situation but I do fear for their wellbeing when this is over,many will suffer trauma anxiety and metal issues when in the cold light of day they realize the impact of some of the decisions they had to take and I'm in no way having a go at them quite the opposite in fact...... Take care out there this is the ultimate silent killer that your just never know where it will strike from..... It is neither the truth nor a lie but simple sensationalism. Doctors and nurses make life and death decisions every day (do we continue to resuscitate this patient, do we switch off life support etc.) and the situation they are in today is no different. The doctors I know don’t lose sleep over it nor have mental breakdowns it’s just their job which they do very well. A respected consultant surgeon who I know said that when an operation doesn’t have the desired outcome he reviews whether he could/should have done anything different but that is all. If he took it personally he wouldn’t be able to do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted April 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, AVB said: It is neither the truth nor a lie but simple sensationalism. No your correct,,,,its not this,,but.. this is,a summary of the last week of the family I've just left the graveyard with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 02/04/2020 at 09:36, millrace said: On this conspiracy theory,,,funny how all the politicians have only had mild symptoms and no immediate family contracted it,,,have they been given a controlled mild dose to gain immunity,,,even Charles to protect assent in worse case scenario,,,,after all Camila never got it yet they were side by side.....???????bojo,s wife.....??????actually no politicians wife????? Guessing boris don't get that memo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 05/04/2020 at 13:12, AVB said: It is neither the truth nor a lie but simple sensationalism. Doctors and nurses make life and death decisions every day (do we continue to resuscitate this patient, do we switch off life support etc.) and the situation they are in today is no different. The doctors I know don’t lose sleep over it nor have mental breakdowns it’s just their job which they do very well. A respected consultant surgeon who I know said that when an operation doesn’t have the desired outcome he reviews whether he could/should have done anything different but that is all. If he took it personally he wouldn’t be able to do his job. Many do struggle with the decisions they have to make, probably just don’t talk to you about it. and yea they have to make those decisions every day as the nhs, but individuals don’t have to make those everyday. But with this, if it hits a peak anywhere near like Italy they will. Several times a day perhaps. And the patient won’t even be allowed family for comfort. And it likely won’t be an unconscious person in a coma which is the state most of those decisions are made. did you hear about the young Italian nurse who killed her self because she contracted it and felt terrible guilt she probably gave it to many patients who then died? my younger brother is in and ITU in Sheffield. He’s 32 and may have to be making these sorts of decisions for people the same age as our parents. Potentially several a day. I am very worried for his future mental health. He knows what he signed up for when he became a doctor, but this early in his life and career to suddenly have to make that many death decisions must be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 hour ago, southeastpete said: Many do struggle with the decisions they have to make, probably just don’t talk to you about it. and yea they have to make those decisions every day as the nhs, but individuals don’t have to make those everyday. But with this, if it hits a peak anywhere near like Italy they will. Several times a day perhaps. And the patient won’t even be allowed family for comfort. And it likely won’t be an unconscious person in a coma which is the state most of those decisions are made. did you hear about the young Italian nurse who killed her self because she contracted it and felt terrible guilt she probably gave it to many patients who then died? my younger brother is in and ITU in Sheffield. He’s 32 and may have to be making these sorts of decisions for people the same age as our parents. Potentially several a day. I am very worried for his future mental health. He knows what he signed up for when he became a doctor, but this early in his life and career to suddenly have to make that many death decisions must be awful. I suppose it does depend on the age of the doctor/nurse. The consultants I know are very experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 On 06/04/2020 at 20:29, GingerCat said: Guessing boris don't get that memo /Tinfoil hat on The Lefties did it! /Tinfoil hat off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 01 Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 Sorry, but I can't help but think the number of infections within the NHS is being covered up at the moment to prevent panic. I have three members of my immediate family in the NHS. Two of them have the virus at present. That's just our experience, but that's a two thirds infection rate. Have a think on that for a moment, and wonder if that's reflective across the whole NHS ? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, Andy 01 said: Sorry, but I can't help but think the number of infections within the NHS is being covered up at the moment to prevent panic. I have three members of my immediate family in the NHS. Two of them have the virus at present. That's just our experience, but that's a two thirds infection rate. Have a think on that for a moment, and wonder if that's reflective across the whole NHS ? Andy It’s not really being covered up that well then is it? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, Andy 01 said: Sorry, but I can't help but think the number of infections within the NHS is being covered up at the moment to prevent panic. I have three members of my immediate family in the NHS. Two of them have the virus at present. That's just our experience, but that's a two thirds infection rate. Have a think on that for a moment, and wonder if that's reflective across the whole NHS ? Andy A sample of three people is going to throw up all sort of statistical anomalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 hello, you may be right Andy, 1.2 million of front line staff, plus now 1000s of volunteers you would never get the exact number even those being tested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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