Complete ****

[lancer425]

 

[Vince Green]

On 20/04/2020 at 16:48, WalkedUp said:

US is certainly first in the grim league table of Coronavirus mortality. 😔

(Excl China, North Korea, Iran etc)

The true figure in America is likely to be three times the official figure because poor people have no access to healthcare what so ever. So they will be dying unrecorded. We would find it hard to imagine being afraid to even call a doctor when you or a loved on is that ill but that's the reality

[Retsdon]

The look on Dr. Deborah Birx' face says it all. Probably mirrored at the time by pretty much everyone listening.

 

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

The look on Dr. Deborah Birx' face says it all. Probably mirrored at the time by pretty much everyone listening.

Just watched it OMG.  Total Penis. 

[JKD]

OMG !!! Injecting disinfectant apparently knocks it out in one minute,,,, and does a tremendous number on the lungs,,,, yeah, sounds "very interesting" !!!??? Is he on drugs ?

[Retsdon]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Just watched it OMG.  Total Penis. 

But the thing is Grant, there are far too many 'normal' people complicit in this. I don't suppose, in a live broadcast, it would be quite the thing for someone like Birx to respond to the POTUS with 'Will you just listen to yourself? What the hell's the matter with you?'..but it's an entirely different thing for a Republican medical practitioner to argue later on national TV that 'these are just the sort of questions any doctor might hear from a patient.' Well, yes he might from one who was either completely simple or  clinically schizophrenic, but not from one who is supposedly up to running the most powerful country on the planet.

So at what point will people on the right wing of the political spectrum admit to themselves that the emperor really has no clothes. I mean, what is the difference between standing naked and asking 'do you like my new clothes, only clever people can see them' and standing at a podium asking 'can't we kill this virus by injecting disinfectant or lighting up people's insides?'

None. But then the Republicans nominate him to run for another four years. So where are the rational people within the Republican party saying...this has got to stop now because it won't end well.

At some point rational, responsible Republicans have a duty to recognize what's in front of their eyes.

[udderlyoffroad]

52 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

At some point rational, responsible Republicans have a duty to recognize what's in front of their eyes.

A guaranteed republican president for the next 4 years.

The thing people on this thread don't seem to grasp is that his 'base' doesn't sit around, watching daily press briefings and pulling apart his every word.  They have jobs to go to, families to feed.  If they get home and turn on the TV, then MSNBC/CBS/CNN will be wall-to-wall Trump-bashing (irksome), and Fox will be picking holes in the Dem's position.  People just zone out, and end up sticking Netflix on, and watching some garbage about white-trash large cat owners.

 

22 hours ago, Vince Green said:

because poor people have no access to healthcare what so ever.

Utter, total bunkum, straight out of Momentum's little red book.

Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacare has always done pretty well for the poor/jobless/feckless/tweakers.  It's those Americans that work hard and contribute to society, who spend a fortune on health insurance, who are left high and dry when they get something  'complicated'. 

'Obamacare' had the unfortunate effect of massively increasing the health insurance premiums for those who could just about afford it, meaning a lot of people became unwilling users of Obamacare.  That is why it is so unpopular.

Edited April 24, 2020 by udderlyoffroad

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

People just zone out, and up sticking Netflix on and watching some garbage about white-trash large cat owners.

I wasn't talking about Trump's 'base'. I was talking about responsible people within the Republican Party hierarchy itself. Because having a crackpot as president is an issue that really should  transcend party politics. 

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

 

So at what point will people on the right wing of the political spectrum admit to themselves that the emperor really has no clothes. I mean, what is the difference between standing naked and asking 'do you like my new clothes, only clever people can see them' and standing at a podium asking 'can't we kill this virus by injecting disinfectant or lighting up people's insides?'

 

Only just read about that this morning, mind boggling on many levels.

[Scully]

😂 Hilarious! 😂

[Deker]

20 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I wasn't talking about Trump's 'base'. I was talking about responsible people within the Republican Party hierarchy itself. Because having a crackpot as president is an issue that really should  transcend party politics. 

 

I agree but most of them are career politicians and as long as they're in the position of power that they want they won't rock the boat, that's the reason that both we and the USA have really hit rock bottom with all party representatives, people want the easy ride with someone else taking the flak.

Trump is digging his hole but currently (as we had) the opposition is just pretty much un-electable, the main gamble he has is opening the states early, if he does and the infection and death rates sky rocket then something may be done for damage control, IF however the numbers don't go up and continue to go down then he'll be patting himself on the back about "knowing more than the experts", I guess we'll see soon

[chrisjpainter]

54 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I wasn't talking about Trump's 'base'. I was talking about responsible people within the Republican Party hierarchy itself. Because having a crackpot as president is an issue that really should  transcend party politics. 

They don't have the power of mob rule. It's the same as the moderates in Corbyn's Labour, with the added problem of him having actual power to wield. they can't say anything vocally as they'll get torn to shreds by the republican base and that will cost them votes. Any self-respecting Congressman/senator won't risk that, or come re-election, for every vote democrat vote picked up, two would be lost in stay at home votes on the Right. 

for the non elected republicans, the Dems haven't helped themselves by charging to the left in some mad-cap hope for a cultural revolution, so the middle of the road conservatives are just going to say, 'he might be crazy, but at least he's not a communist'. The arguments for doing nothing and not angering the noisy Trump supporters is too strong: 'It'd only be for another max 4 years. The democrats are just as dangerous to core values, Trump's done okay in the short term on the economy. Nobody wants to rock the boat to the tune of kicking out your own leader'

Edited April 24, 2020 by chrisjpainter

[udderlyoffroad]

40 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I wasn't talking about Trump's 'base'. I was talking about responsible people within the Republican Party hierarchy itself. 

I know what you were talking about, I was pointing out that they won't do anything as his base is behind him, as @chrisjpainter so eloquently pointed out above

 

41 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Because having a crackpot as president is an issue that really should  transcend party politics. 

You mean they should, behind the scenes, come together and work towards a some sort of...common purpose?  Not sinister at all.  

The constitutional means to unseat him has already been tried and failed.

 

18 minutes ago, Deker said:

the main gamble he has is opening the states early, if he does and the infection and death rates sky rocket then something may be done for damage control, IF however the numbers don't go up and continue to go down then he'll be patting himself on the back about "knowing more than the experts", I guess we'll see soon

I suspect the death rate would have to be pretty high to damage him.  Remember, essentially individual State governors can do their own thing anyway, so Trump taking all the flack for this is unlikely in any case.

 

[Bumble]

We can only hope that his voter base follow his lead and start ingesting massive quantities of disinfectants. It might not help with Covid19,  but it’ll surely do wonders for the collective global IQ. 
 

[Newbie to this]

17 minutes ago, Bumble said:

We can only hope that his voter base follow his lead and start ingesting massive quantities of disinfectants. It might not help with Covid19,  but it’ll surely do wonders for the collective global IQ. 
 

Wow, just wow.

[Retsdon]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You mean they should, behind the scenes, come together and work towards a some sort of...common purpose?  Not sinister at all.  

Not at all. I'm talking about the Republican Party itself and its nomination of Trump for another term. We're talking the party of Lincoln, Coolidge, and Eisenhower here - a party that has long and proud historical antecedents -  and it's a crying shame that it has so far lost its moral rudder as to nominate for president a man who has quite plainly lost control of his critical faculties. It shouldn't matter that he can command a rent-a-mob 'base'. The Party has duty both to itself and the country. There are other, sane Republicans that the party could put forward in the next presidential election. In fact, the way things are going they might well come to regret staying with Trump. He seems to be getting more bizarre by the day.

Anyway, we'll see. You're probably right and he'll win again.  God knows, the Dems are looking likely to go with Biden - who in my book is just Hilary Mk2 so there's no light there. 350 million people to choose from and after $100s of millions in campaigning it  comes down to a complete fruitcake or a shifty, transparently corrupt, serial groper.

It begs the question - what's wrong with the system?

[grrclark]

32 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Not at all. I'm talking about the Republican Party itself and its nomination of Trump for another term. We're talking the party of Lincoln, Coolidge, and Eisenhower here - a party that has long and proud historical antecedents -  and it's a crying shame that it has so far lost its moral rudder as to nominate for president a man who has quite plainly lost control of his critical faculties. It shouldn't matter that he can command a rent-a-mob 'base'. The Party has duty both to itself and the country. There are other, sane Republicans that the party could put forward in the next presidential election. In fact, the way things are going they might well come to regret staying with Trump. He seems to be getting more bizarre by the day.

Anyway, we'll see. You're probably right and he'll win again.  God knows, the Dems are looking likely to go with Biden - who in my book is just Hilary Mk2 so there's no light there. 350 million people to choose from and after $100s of millions in campaigning it  comes down to a complete fruitcake or a shifty, transparently corrupt, serial groper.

It begs the question - what's wrong with the system?

A thoroughly reasonable post, it does indeed make you wonder.

Prior to his election win i recall having conversation with a few Americans who were otherwise smart, inclusive and reasonable people, they ran good businesses.  They were voting for Trump as they felt forgotten like so many Americans and wanted to disrupt the system.

Sadly they got an utter nutjob narcissist, but even so in recent conversations with them they see Trump as a welcome part of a longer end game.  They know he is a buffoon, but he is so disruptive that it is giving most reasoanble thinking people cause to ask what they want or expect from the system.

In previous times we have had major conflicts to shake up societies and cause us to re-evaluate, this time we have a virus that has touched everyone and an utter walloper in the white house.

[Mice!]

Trump strikes me as someone who sits in meetings listening to lots of clever people tell him things, doesn't really understand what's being said then goes and speaks to the media, gets everything wrong and just keeps talking. 

He should self isolate for 14 days saying he has developed symptoms,  do like the UK has done, put different people on the podium each day, see how things go, let his team take point.

Then if its working keep going with it, step back in when things are improving. 

[Bumble]

15 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Trump strikes me as someone who sits in meetings listening to lots of clever people tell him things, doesn't really understand what's being said then goes and speaks to the media, gets everything wrong and just keeps talking. 

He should self isolate for 14 days saying he has developed symptoms,  do like the UK has done, put different people on the podium each day, see how things go, let his team take point.

Then if its working keep going with it, step back in when things are improving. 

He doesn’t see it as a team effort though, it’s all about the Donald & his fragile ego. 

[grrclark]

3 hours ago, Bumble said:

We can only hope that his voter base follow his lead and start ingesting massive quantities of disinfectants. It might not help with Covid19,  but it’ll surely do wonders for the collective global IQ. 
 

Perhaps a bit blunt and lacking in sensitivity, and I suspect said satirically, but a roundabout description of Darwinism none the less. 

[Deker]

21 hours ago, Retsdon said:

It begs the question - what's wrong with the system?

This is certainly a question that's been raised a lot lately (including here in the UK), no matter which way you vote the representatives from the parties seem to be people with questionable backgrounds and ethics (at best), I actually started to wonder if it's always been this way but these days with social media and instant information it's more transparent 

[Raja Clavata]

This is old but perhaps more fitting than ever:

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/posts/someone-asked-why-do-some-british-people-not-like-donald-trump-nate-white-an-art/2575977245828647/

In discussions on this thread around the previous great debate of our time there were certain people who spoke quite highly of him, it would appear they have either changed their opinions or are just keeping schtum...

 

[oowee]

33 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is old but perhaps more fitting than ever:

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/posts/someone-asked-why-do-some-british-people-not-like-donald-trump-nate-white-an-art/2575977245828647/

In discussions on this thread around the previous great debate of our time there were certain people who spoke quite highly of him, it would appear they have either changed their opinions or are just keeping schtum...

 

No way! Surely they would put their hands up and be the first to say they would have voted for a penis? 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 hours ago, Deker said:

This is certainly a question that's been raised a lot lately (including here in the UK), no matter which way you vote the representatives from the parties seem to be people with questionable backgrounds and ethics (at best), I actually started to wonder if it's always been this way but these days with social media and instant information it's more transparent 

And if it will ever change?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/seeing-the-worst-in-politicians-has-brought-out-the-worst-in-politics-1.4060532

The old quote of "anyone who wishes to be a politician should not be allowed to be a politician" or as Billy Connolly used to say "The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.” and "Don't vote. It just encourages them!"

[Scully]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is old but perhaps more fitting than ever:

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/posts/someone-asked-why-do-some-british-people-not-like-donald-trump-nate-white-an-art/2575977245828647/

In discussions on this thread around the previous great debate of our time there were certain people who spoke quite highly of him, it would appear they have either changed their opinions or are just keeping schtum...

 

I don't mind the bloke at all really; he is what happens when the quiet majority feel they are under represented, or ignored completely. A bit like Farage I suppose, in that he capitalised on those who felt their opinions or voices were simply treat with derision and ignored. 

As far as I see it, people get what they deserve.